Gaming going evil?

[RubberDucky]

I've noticed a disturbing trend lately. A fascination with evil. Two games immediately come to mind, and a third which eludes me.

The first, the new game "Bayonetta". The plot consists of a witch, named Bayonetta, who was part of an ancient branch of sorcerers called the Umbra witches. They are an all female society of black magic practitioners. Their "enemies" are the all male society of....light magic? practitioners, the Lumen sages. Blah blah, big battle between the two. Bayonetta somehow ends up in a coma/sleep state. Fast forward 500 years. Bayonetta is awakened with no memory, real original huh? Anyway, her hair magically forms her clothes, but she also uses her hair for magical attack. While she may be magical, her hair can not be in two places at once, if you see. But what might she be fighting with this formidable bed head you ask? Angels. As in "Fear not." and "I bring you tidings of great joy." angels. But not the angels you imagine when you read that word. They are scraggly legged, knobby kneed, vulture like birds. in combination with the overused gore, I find many problems with this game's method of attack as well as the targets of such crude attacks.

Next we have "Darksiders". This is about the apocalypse. The player takes on the role of "War" one of the 4 horseman. The apocalypse has started early, and War is blamed for it. Oh, by the way, Hell won. War must now clear his name of this terrible charge. As War, the player battles demons, and once again, angels, to discover how he was blamed for this. First, playing as a demon on a vendetta, no, thank you. Second, the obvious perversion of the Bible. Anyone who has even heard the story of Armageddon knows who will win.

How is this OK? Who said "That's a great idea for a game!"? When did this happen? And my most important question, what are we gonna do about it? I know I most certainly won't be spending my money on these pieces of garbage, but I know that many other people will. What are y'all's opinions?

Joey.

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Good thing you are noticing it but the popular fascination with good vampires, good demons, and evil in general being "good" is nothing new (Devil May Cry is my first thought but there are others). Sure it's getting more and more explicit as time goes on but it's been here for a long time especially if you look at TV which video games are paralleling (Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Charmed etc.). Comic books are full of such stuff too as writers grasp for content to use. Even if you go back to the 1940's-1950's movies that deal with the devil possessing your soul or getting into heaven it was never a belief in Jesus that saves you but some human contortion. In that sense the Bible has been perverted for a writer's use for a while it's just getting worse and worse.

As far as Bayonetta and Darksiders I wouldn't be buying them even if I could (don't have the system). Even without moral objections they both look moronic with even the secular reviews noting incomprehensible plots. The one they are pushing far more, Bayonetta, is intentionally stupidly over the top though so it's not like the writers were trying to make sense anyway (I ask though just how are guns on her feet supposed to be "cool"??? >.<). The additional sexual content (geared towards pubescent boys no doubt) on top of the pagan content puts Bayonetta as the worse of the two imo.

To us who try to love God with all of our heart, soul, strength and mind I find it awkward to not love him with all of my money too . I know no game will ever be perfect but I just can't see Jesus playing some of them. Not buying such games and supporting them may or may not discourage people from making them but that's really beside the point. I just want to be able to tell God I tried when I see him.

 

[Keero]

I don't think it's perversion of the bible but a different spin on the Christian mythology. As for the games, I was never a fan of DMC nor Zelda-esque gameplay, so passing these up.

 

[RubberDucky]

It's interesting you should mention DMC Gerbile, as this game pulls from that quite a bit. And I downloaded the demo on my Xbox, just to try and see what other people might, but it's so stupid. The fights are more chaos than anything, no finesse like some of the reviews said. The attacks seem awkward and not at all fluid, with periods of static motion in between attacks. Even putting aside my biblical objections, it is not a game I would buy. I hope other people, people who aren't saved, will share my views.
Joey.

 

[Brydon]

Funny that you left out Dante's Inferno (for which the demo was stuPID).

In general, I think people at core WANT to be part of something bigger and more cosmic than a petty squabble for money or territory... And yet we recast God in our own image and so perpetuate the dualistic view of Heaven vs. Hell as simple opposed armies. I think we should learn to appreciate this as a sign that people still aren't satisfied without an allegiance to something eternal.

(But let's be fair... Have you ever played a fun video game that was theologically sound? Me neither.)

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Wall of Text 1000 hp lvl 81

I don't think it's perversion of the bible but a different spin on the Christian mythology.

The thing about it is while, for example, vampires are mythic their depictions are inexorably tied to things like selling your soul to the devil or more often the occasional bloodlust/bloodbath as the result of being a vampire. While at the same time writers deliberately make it attractive to be a Vampire. Even when vampires are written to be the result of a virus they inevitably create connotations of them being some kind of Faustian bargain that humans can master. It's the humans can master part that I object to as the message is "you can deal with the devil becuase you can get away with it". I see "oh, oh, I'm so sorrowful" in between bouts of looking really cool and powerful. There are some REAL people that go around "being" vampires, yes they are nuts, but what enticed them to pursue that lifestyle?

Writers are at odds with themselves on one hand they want to tie their stories to Hell to give them weight but on the other they treat Hell as a revolving door when they want one of their creations to be "good". It's quite foolish really. They want "ultimate" for the shock factor but want to write their way out of it too. This makes whatever you use to get out of it "ultimate" and lessens the significance of the previous "ultimate". (it's the one up man ship loop I've spoken of before and it ruins stories). The fact is there is real witchcraft, real demons and a real Hell. I eschew any interpretation that would soften the perception of what is the real "ultimate" worst thing in all existence, eternal damnation. These inaccurate interpretations may have less impact to those who already believe in their real counterparts and thus take it seriously. For those who don't believe in Christianity or don't know the truth it may have a desensitizing effect, make it harder to find the truth among misinformation or worse case entice them to try out the real counterpart.

In general, I think people at core WANT to be part of something bigger and more cosmic than a petty squabble for money or territory... And yet we recast God in our own image and so perpetuate the dualistic view of Heaven vs. Hell as simple opposed armies. I think we should learn to appreciate this as a sign that people still aren't satisfied without an allegiance to something eternal.

I'm 90% agreeing but it's not eternal allegiance people want it's eternal power, any allegiance is a means to an end. They don't care if power is from God or the devil. They usually pick the devil because God is seen as restrictive and the devil lets you for fill your desires. To quote popular TV writer Joss Whedon "I don’t believe in The Sky Bully" which personifies the way some unsaved people perceive God. <sarcasm> Of course if you are going to deal with the devil there is a price but that's easily solved by human willpower </sarcasm rollseyes>.

(But let's be fair... Have you ever played a fun video game that was theologically sound? Me neither.)

That involves Biblical manifestations nope . Closest thing I can think of is maybe one of the obscure Christian games. For mainstream maybe the game based on Chronicles of Narnia but that's allegorical and does not involve direct manifestations. I never played it either so I know not if it's true to the source material.

Treating Biblical truths like fiction is like taking a whiz on a veteran's grave and expecting it to be funny, there is no respect and it just shouldn't be done. To be clear I'm not against fictional interpretations of Christianity it's the intent of the source material that must remain true lest the message and morality be lost or misunderstood. Frank Peretti has supposed to have written some good Christian horror stuff. I've never read it but I doubt demons are friendly.

To go back to specifically video games one thing to consider about games is their creation is largely centered in Shinto-Buddhist Japan. I'd imagine Christianity is more of a amusing mythology there than elsewhere so you are less likely to get a serious interpretation in games than other media. That's pretty much the way the creator of Bayonetta sounded when he talked too.

 

[RubberDucky]

I have played a true to source Christian game. It was for the original gameboy (a dinosaur, I know) It was called Spiritual Warfare. You went around nailing people with fruits of the spirit while you tried to collect the pieces of the armor of God. It was kinda fun as the only song on the soundtrack was "Christ The Solid Rock" and the fruits of the spirit were actually portrayed as fruits (Banana ftw).

But you are right about the majority of games being created in a primarily lost Japan, and I don't doubt that Christianity to them is just another fairy tale that can be used for the outline of a good story.

Joey.

 

[Zephyrulk]

How is this OK? Who said "That's a great idea for a game!"? When did this happen? And my most important question, what are we gonna do about it? I know I most certainly won't be spending my money on these pieces of garbage, but I know that many other people will. What are y'all's opinions?

Nobody's trying to force you to buy video games that are "garbage" - you have free will - the choice to buy it or not to buy it. When it comes to coming up with storyboarding, game design, or coming up with something crazy to use as a fiction piece or piece of fantasy or science fiction - the point isn't to simply copycat reality, it's to create something/someone/someplace new and different where the consumer hasn't been before. As more and more material comes up and is developed, there *seems* to be less and less originality, because certain themes keep popping up (ie. for purpose of this discussion - the fascination with witches, demons, hell, war, apocalypse). This *could* be because we are living in the End Times, but it could also just be a new fad of the gaming industry. If gaming companies want to spend their money creating games like you just described, that's their choice and I defend their right to choose. I personally wouldn't buy it (that's what I'll do about it), but I don't necessarily condemn/judge/look down upon it either.

When I say that, I mean this: When the companies create their video games, they have the creative license to do what they want within the game. Body hair as clothing? That's the first time I've heard of something like that - that's pretty unique (aside from the Bible scriptures talking about hair being a veil for our head... or something along those lines). Nudity occurring because the hair is needed to transform into a weapon? 'eh - they crossed the lines for particular audiences. But it is logical. If the principle is that the hair is all that's there, it can be used for multiple purposes, but can't be in more than one place at a time - then the principle has to be followed through with. Fighting as the dark side? (Devil May Cry, God of War, KOTOR (when you make bad decisions you become like a sith right?), etc.) People are turning to see *what it would be like* if something like that took place. It's not a sin, nor necessarily a bad thing to test a theory from the opposite side of the equation. That's part of what Science Fiction goes for - to test different possibilities and see what the outcomes would logically come to. I'm using SF as an example here because of their rationale.

There's been so many books, games, movies, etc. that have had the good guys win, that from the writer's point of view - it's time to switch the lens and see the other side's perspective. If anything, it should lessen the surprise that demonic powers actually exist and take part in this world (I don't know how the games will be received but I can't simply believe that all who play those games will be desensitized to the existence of demons).

I personally won't buy the games, and won't even look into more about what the games are about - simply because I don't care. Your descriptions about them did strike a nerve with my Christian ethics, understandably so, but they just don't sound appealing (aside from the nudity, themes of darkness, etc.). Plus, I'm moving away from the gaming lifestyle to pursue other things in life. And I don't own a Xbox (if that's the gaming system that's being referred to).

 

[Zephyrulk]

But you are right about the majority of games being created in a primarily lost Japan, and I don't doubt that Christianity to them is just another fairy tale that can be used for the outline of a good story.

I can see why you say this...

...but there are Christians in Japan. Just because people don't see *many* Christian themes, straight-out, in their video games, they shouldn't look down on their products. The Final Fantasy series, made by Squaresoft (now Square Enix - a Japan-based company) is, like you guys have been saying - a good set of stories, but just because they use motif and imagery from Christian games (as well as other religions) doesn't mean that they should be devalued.

 

[Zephyrulk]

Frank Peretti has supposed to have written some good Christian horror stuff. I've never read it but I doubt demons are friendly.

I don't quite understand what you're trying to say about Peretti. I don't believe he has any "friendly demons" in his writings.

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

I can see why you say this...

...but there are Christians in Japan. Just because people don't see *many* Christian themes, straight-out, in their video games, they shouldn't look down on their products. The Final Fantasy series, made by Squaresoft (now Square Enix - a Japan-based company) is, like you guys have been saying - a good set of stories, but just because they use motif and imagery from Christian games (as well as other religions) doesn't mean that they should be devalued.

Oi don't get me started on FF . To be more precise it's not the motif's in FF or JRPGS that I had a problem with as I used to play a LOTS of JRPGS. What I couldn't stand any longer was the Humanistic/Taoist moral points in the stories. Lots of Japanese games do character development well (albeit unoriginality) and yes FF is pretty but ultimately preaches morals I can't agree with. It's...

"Humans can do anything even beat God" (FF 9)
"That western style church that specifically teaches peace and love is really a front for a demon" (Breath of Fire um 1 I think. I've played more than one game like this)
"Humans are so strong they don't need a God" (Lunar)
"The planet has a spirit and saving it is more important than the people on it" (more an undertone but lots of them seem to have it)

Those are off the top of my head there are most definitely more.

Mind you I know there are Christians in Japan it's just percentage wise you've got less of a chance of getting a Christian game from there than elsewhere.

I don't quite understand what you're trying to say about Peretti. I don't believe he has any "friendly demons" in his writings.

Right that's what I said. I "doubt" he has friendly demons as he being a Christian would not write them to be good .

Nobody's trying to force you to buy video games that are "garbage" - you have free will - the choice to buy it or not to buy it. When it comes to coming up with storyboarding, game design, or coming up with something crazy to use as a fiction piece or piece of fantasy or science fiction - the point isn't to simply copycat reality, it's to create something/someone/someplace new and different where the consumer hasn't been before. As more and more material comes up and is developed, there *seems* to be less and less originality, because certain themes keep popping up (ie. for purpose of this discussion - the fascination with witches, demons, hell, war, apocalypse). This *could* be because we are living in the End Times, but it could also just be a new fad of the gaming industry. If gaming companies want to spend their money creating games like you just described, that's their choice and I defend their right to choose. I personally wouldn't buy it (that's what I'll do about it), but I don't necessarily condemn/judge/look down upon it either.

To be clear I don't think Bayonetta or Darksiders are the worst games out there (I can EASILY think of a few worse) and I don't think anyone is talking about making them illegal. Almost any game out there has things Christians should object to and in freedom there is a certain level of tolerance but not silence (note there is a limit on tolerance, for example outlaw all porn please as there is no good use for it and it is in fact prostitution TYVM). See the thing is Christians are supposed to become perfect. Only though Christ can we ultimately achieve this but that doesn't mean we aren't supposed to try to do better becuase Jesus still told us to do so. When I hear Christians talking about some piece of media most of it is "oooh it's so good" or "it's so bad" with not a word on the morality of it which should always be foremost in a Christian's mind. I think politely pointing out negative content is a must if we are to encourage each other to do better and grow as Christians. I'm certainly not going to blacklist anyone for playing Bayonetta but I'm not going to be silent to it's faults either. The uninformed need to be aware of things contrary to Christian doctrine while the informed need to know they are not alone to encourage them. To which end someone has to speak up.

 

[RubberDucky]

Yeah, I'm not saying that the game creators can't make games like that. That would just be illogical. I was just commenting on the apparent increase in popularity of the use of darker material for games. I am disconcerted by it as I haven't noticed this so blatantly before. I did not play the FF games so I didn't know the quotes that Gerbil mentioned, but these games cause me discomfort.

Joey.

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Yeah, I'm not saying that the game creators can't make games like that. That would just be illogical. I was just commenting on the apparent increase in popularity of the use of darker material for games. I am disconcerted by it as I haven't noticed this so blatantly before. I did not play the FF games so I didn't know the quotes that Gerbil mentioned, but these games cause me discomfort.

Joey.

So you know (I think you do but not sure) those aren't verbatim quotes I'm just saying the obvious morals the games preach through characters actions and concerns.

 

[Josh T.]

You are right - Peretti has some excellent christian horror novels. My personal favorite is The Oath (great book, imo).

 

[Josh T.]

Also, I think darker material pervades the game world nowadays. There's really no way around it. If you want to play a game, you're just going to have to deal with the fact that there is such material in 99% of the games created today. Not condoning any of it, that's just how it is. Also, a lot of this content, unless included in the main plot, is avoidable (i.e. in any Bioware game - from Mass Effect to Dragon Age: Origins or even KOTOR..). It all depends on the choices you make

 

[Stc95]

Also, a lot of this content, unless included in the main plot, is avoidable (i.e. in any Bioware game - from Mass Effect to Dragon Age: Origins or even KOTOR..). It all depends on the choices you make

Go Bioware!

I'm curious as your guys' thoughts on the Diablo franchise. If there's one game that has more demons/demonic influences in it I'd be hard pressed to find it. However, keep in mind that, as far as I remember, the hero you create is seeking to stop and kill Diablo (the devil) and save the world, as opposed to the games you've mentioned where there is a different, malevolent goal.

 

[Josh T.]

I've never played Diablo, actually...so I can't comment on that. However, I concur...go Bioware!

 

[[toj.cc]phantom]

Go Bioware!

I'm curious as your guys' thoughts on the Diablo franchise. If there's one game that has more demons/demonic influences in it I'd be hard pressed to find it. However, keep in mind that, as far as I remember, the hero you create is seeking to stop and kill Diablo (the devil) and save the world, as opposed to the games you've mentioned where there is a different, malevolent goal.

Thats exactly what is going on in the game. Same as in any DooM game, creatures from Hell invade Mars (and Earth in one of the early games). And as the hero you are tasked with killing them and sending them back to hell, which usually ends with you facing off against the demon leading the invasion (as in DooM) or the Devil himself (in Diablo).

 

[OrryW]

Go Bioware!

I'm curious as your guys' thoughts on the Diablo franchise. If there's one game that has more demons/demonic influences in it I'd be hard pressed to find it. However, keep in mind that, as far as I remember, the hero you create is seeking to stop and kill Diablo (the devil) and save the world, as opposed to the games you've mentioned where there is a different, malevolent goal.

In Diablo 2 I believe the end-boss is actually Ba'al, although that is because of the "Lord of Destruction" expansion. But the goal is still destroying evil.

 

[Zekkers]

While I know little to nothing about Diablo, I find it intresting that it is the player who fights the demons... Think about it, what human today, in their own power, could fight any demon? Without God/Jesus behind us, we are powerless against such forces, and have trouble even perceiving their existence or intentions. I have met many New Age Spiritualist who honestly thinks that spirits, spirit guides, etc. will only help them if that is what the spirit has said to them. After all, those spirits are the enlightened ones. (rolls eyes)

While the idea of destroying evil is a much better one that playing the part of an evil character, I still have some theological problems with the game's idea. Theologically, every game I've ever seen (including GW ;P) has some flaws. The conflict is if you can reject the theology, and still play the game. Or is the theology so central to the game that you are buying into the theology to play? I have chosen not to play certain fest quests or 'pick your circle to support this god' in GW because I don't like to declare myself for even a totally fake god- but that again is my choice.

But to drag myself kicking and screaming back to the original topic, YES, I think more and more society is looking for spirituality. And, because they are LOST, they are headed the wrong way. You can see this very clearly in entertainment. I choose to find it encouraging that society is opening up to the spiritual world. I remember when it seemed like only religious crazies even talked about anything outside of science openly. (course, I wasn't Christian then).

So- quick prayer: God, let us use this openness to the spiritual world to open dialog with our friends who don't know you. Not to alienate, but let them know what a viable alternative you are. (In truth, the only alternative) IJN, Amen.

God Bless,
Rebecca