God is Merciful and loving

That's the problem with the bible though, isn't it? Accept it all or none of it - well, yeah, as there are sections of it and ideas in it that I can't accept I've ended up accepting none of it. I used to be a devout Christian - now I'm an Asatruaar. Timor used to be a devout Christian - now he's an atheist.

Us and people like us - eight tenths of the world - divided and alone against you, the minority? Poor us.
 
Wow, I wish I could say I was an Asatruaar...I don't even know what it is, it just sounds so awesome
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Aaah, that's cool. BTW, Eon, you never did get around to explaining your beliefs to me. PM me if you feel like it.
 
timor:

If you are going to ask for explanation, at least bother to take into account what I've taken the time to research.

1) Scofield rather adeptly handles the issue of "mortal violence". The Hebrew word does not denote killing.
2) Relying on simply the majority of the translation of a word in the KJV does not produce a justified translation of it into one certain sense. Thus, I'm not simply saying that the same word translated "young" being used of a 17-year old once denotes its only translation; nonetheless all senses of the word do need to be taken into account. I'm aware of this. Thus I'm really struggling to find any more authority behind the translation as "little children" than "adolescents."

note: if you wish to argue translation of Scripture with me, don't do it via the KJV. Look at the Hebrew.

Further, I think even if He had chosen to kill the scoffers, He would have been justified just fine. He not only instigated slaughter of other nations, but the slaughter of those within the nation of Israel who disobeyed Him (e.g., two priests who offered a sacrifice incorrectly, those rebelling against the authority of Moses, etc.)! Despite the fact that today's pigeon-holed postmodern world's mantra is "violence is not the answer", God was pretty serious in His dealings with His first-chosen people, and still is.

"The wages of sin are death." This hasn't changed.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (timor @ Mar. 30 2004,12:17)]Then let everyone drop dead this instant, or none. Let not God be inconsistent.
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God also has mercy on whom He chooses to have mercy; don't forget that. That's why some of us are living and some of us are dying. The mode or time of death is never nailed down; God chose to wipe out cities in an instant, yet the same God also chose at times to let people gradually die by limiting their lifespan. Just because God doesn kill everybody in an instant doesn't mean He's inconsistent.
 
Um, do you really think 42 "innocent" teenagers were gathered around this prophet to have a good old time, and have some fun? If I was alone on a street and even 5-7 guys confront me in any way, and single me out, I am going to feel very threatened. My guess was that they were out to kill this prophet, as a big slap in the face to God. Little did they know...
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Eon @ Mar. 30 2004,2:55)]That's the problem with the bible though, isn't it? Accept it all or none of it - well, yeah, as there are sections of it and ideas in it that I can't accept I've ended up accepting none of it. I used to be a devout Christian - now I'm an Asatruaar. Timor used to be a devout Christian - now he's an atheist.

Us and people like us -  eight tenths of the world - divided and alone against you, the minority? Poor us.
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You're an Asatruar Eon? I've heard about them...cool beans. And you can add me to that list...I used to be a devout christian...but now I am for all intents and purposes and athiest as well. I guess I'm just too liberal...
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Master~Plan @ Mar. 30 2004,9:01)]Um, do you really think 42 "innocent" teenagers were gathered around this prophet to have a good old time, and have some fun? If I was alone on a street and even 5-7 guys confront me in any way, and single me out, I am going to feel very threatened. My guess was that they were out to kill this prophet, as a big slap in the face to God.
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The most Holy Bible of the Living God records that they merely called him a "baldhead." Elijah then cursed them, and then they were torn to shreds. This is not the equivalent of a street-tough gang jumping you. This is some kids playing hopscotch insulting your big nose, or your funny glasses, or...your bald head.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Little did they know...
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Little did they know that God goes medieval on little kids.
 
It's not the violence that I have a problem with - it's the inconsistency with which it is applied. If you don't want to be labelled a hypocrit, it's a truism that once you act on a matter you must always act on similar matters in the future. If I gig you for chewing gum in class, I must gig Billy if he chews gum in class tomorrow, and Amanda if she does the same the day after. If anything my punishment for gum chewing must INCREASE because the chewing of gum is becoming a challenge to my authority.

But here we have God deciding that blasphemy is suddenly a capital offence - or at least worthy of a severe mauling (in deference to Tastywheat's superior command of hebrew) by bears (has anyone ever had a trivial mauling by bears?).

Later prophets and disciples were martyred with impunity. JC himself was nailed to a bit of wood with impunity. So where's the consistency?

Of course we also come to the point about the fact that the prophet HIMSELF cursed them in the name of God, and God delivered. If I cursed you in the name of Tyr and you were ripped apart by bears, that would be considered heinous black magic by you guys - so what's the diff?

An interesting thing to remember - especially in these dark times - is that an actions morality is NOT defined by the person who performs it. An evil act is evil if a good person performs it and a good act is good even if performed by an evil man.

Eon
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]People are born sinful, so yes IRT the first statement.
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Hold on. You've changed from saying that Israel and God were justified in doing this because Amalek had been nasty in the past to saying that they were justified since this nation was composed of human beings?

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Quote[/b] ]How does an ungodly nation such as the US even compare to a nation God called His own.  It doesnt, so you have no valid comparison to mak there.
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So justification in carrying out genocide rests also on whether or not that nation is godly? Let's change the example -- would America have been justified in doing genocide 300 years ago when moral standards were supposedly a bit higher? What about Israel - what they did was fine because they were a 'godly' nation? How about if the leaders of Israel did these things a year before Israel was taken into captivity by Babylonia, when sin and corruption was rampant? If they thought God was telling them to do genocide then, should they have asked God if he was having a joke?
 
Again, America being a nation that tries to reject God, and Israel, back then, a nation that sought after and followed God, and He ruled over them, protected them, allowed them to be captured, suffer war/famine/disease when they went astray. And that they only did the "genocide" when God had said to, not of their own will, but His.

And as for America being moral 300 years ago, the presence of morals does not indicate a God fearing/loving/following nation. For the most part, at the time of independce, the framers of the constitution were mostly Deists and rememnants of the overzealous puritans that had become even more apostate after their acceptance of the halfway covenant. While they may have been moral, and may have sought after God in somethings, they rejected the deity of CHrist and the authority of the scriptures, so America, contrary to popular belief, was not the godly nation people have thought it to be.
 
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Quote[/b] (Dr. Tek @ Mar. 31 2004,8:49)]America being a nation that tries to reject God
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That's a pretty harsh statement considering it was founded so that you can worship your God, and Abdul down the street can worship his.  I would think rejecting God would be more communistic (banning religion all together).  Personally, I think you need to be careful not to equate not blatantly supporting Christianity and rejecting God.  As far as I know (and I may very well not know enough) all of the recent Presidents have been Church goers in one sect of Christianity or another.  How dare they reject God and go to Services on Sundays!
 
I wonder how many of them have continued regular church attendence once they were safely out of office and out of politics? ;)

The fact is that a non-Christian has a worse chance of becoming President than an African American. And HE has a worse chance than a woman, and SHE has no chance at all...
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Hmm...so I guess it's hopeless to look forward to having an athiest African-American woman for a president. Dang...

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What you also are forget Eon Timor and all else commenting so harshly on this topic is that in the OT God was directly involved with His nation and in guiding them and discipling them (i know the spelling is off) where as in the NT, Jesus made the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and the Holy Spirit was sent to guide men. So now we have Jesus interceeding for us ( IE like the high Priest did) and the Holy Spirit ( to guide us like the prophets). Not to say that God does not directly get involved these days, but i do think He has changed the way He administers His office as some may say
 
LionOfJudah - are you saying that since God doesn't (as far as I know) go around ordering atrocities or committing them himself anymore that it's okay that these things were done in the past?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Please, attempt to justify this to me
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You don't even believe it happened.  So what your problem with what you consider to be a fable?  There is no justification because:

1.  You don't believe it happened.
2.  If you believed it did happen, then the Christian God must exist in this instance.  And if God does exist, then only God can justify his decision and actions and your question would be inappropriatly direct to us.

For the sake of arguement:

If God does exist and is creator and reigns over all things as King, then God and only God has sovereignty over life. Life is Gods to give and take. And as Job found out, who are we to question Gods sovereignty?
 
heres a parrell for you.

Is the Us still Justifyed in trying to stop communsim from spreading. Are the things the US did during the cold war correct?


God can do whatever He wants whenever He wants, i have accepted that and made my peace with it. If He choose to end my life, or to take away everything from me, the only thing i could really do is say

He gives and takes away, my heart will choose to stay, Lord blessed be Your name.
 
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