If you have time, please visit this site.

And while it may be time for the sun to set on this thread, I have just one more question for you DV....Have you ever asked God to make Himself real to you then waited for HIS answer?

I don't really need or expect an answer. Just something for you to ponder.

As I am new to these boards, it looks like there are going to be some interesting conversations

Gen
 
I had that religious Faith long ago. I believed just as fervently as anyone.

Can I do that again now? No, too much time has passed and I know too many things that I didn't then. I would have more luck asking the Invisible Pink Unicorn to make himself known to me.

This is the only case when someone hearing voices or gaining knowledge from a seemingly non existint being is considered acceptable. If it was from anything other than God they'd be fitted for a straightjacket.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Gods_Peon @ Sep. 22 2004,5:18)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I simply question your belief in Faith.
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In your mind, I have no way to prove the reality of my faith.

In my mind, you have no way to disprove the reality of my faith.


So, why even question it?


---

I don't have beleif in faith.  I believe in a God, I believe that God is the God of the Bible and I have faith in that God.

Just because I said,

I believe in God
I have faith in God

Doesn't mean you can do a mathematical equation substitution and drop God out of the equation and say that I believe in faith.  My faith, to me is a tangable reality.  Just because science can't measure it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
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That wasn't quite what I meant. I understand that Faith is intangible and unquantifiable. You are using Faith as your "scientific method" to prove something. That is what I question. That kind of religious faith can be used to prove anything even in the face of reason, and that I have a problem with.
 
The underlying history of the creation of the Bible; it's history and political leanings.

The bloody and political history of the Christian church.

The foundation of Faith and its fallibility under the scientific method.

The many, many similarities between Christianity and other world religions.

The lack of evidence to support the divinity of the Bible.

There were many things that I did not want to acknowledge that were easier to chalk up to the "sovereignty" of God.

It wasn't one thing that flipped a switch in my head. It was something gradual that led me to want and need solid proof.
 
I can understand the need to have something tangible, or concrete. I am an analyst. I like facts. Moving on though...

Can you provide additional detail? One topic at a time is fine.
 
If you want additional detail all you have to do is look through these threads
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DV -

I have looked through the threads and spent a lot of time reading them and trying to figure out really where you come from. Whenever I read through your posts, I get lost in the circles.

I have seen you go off in one direction, then change part way through. I have seen you quote something partially, then ask a question that would be answered in the next sentence of what you have quoted.

I asked that question because I want to know where you are coming from exactly. You seem to be very smart. Perhaps you may even try to look into things too much, to find something that really isn’t there. And while I enjoy having these discussions, no matter what the religious beliefs are, spinning in circles gets old. I would love to see you commit to one thing are follow it through.

Gen
 
Ah, well that's a different question altogether
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I apologize if I have given the impression that I do not follow through with ideas or conversations. Honestly, I'm not sure what gave you that impression, but I will see if I can explain.

I grew up religious, with faith. I now, no longer choose to live by faith, but by reason and logic. Thus, I have accepted the title of Freethinker. Not because it makes me sound smart or important, or because it's a backhanded insult to those who have faith, but because its definition fits me closer than atheist, agnostic, et al.

I understand both sides equally well and I can argue both sides equally well. Sometimes I get stuck playing devil's advocate and I answer my own question, which in itself, is a disservice to the conversation. Sometimes I find it easier to discuss topics from the theistic side, this can be seen in my discussion about apostates and heretics. Maybe that's where you see confusion. Most of these discussions are familiar paths and I know where they end. With some topics, there is only so far you can go before you hit a stumbling block.

I am, however, fully committed to my beliefs. What are those beliefs you ask? Well I do not believe in the God of the Bible or any other omnimax being. Nor do I believe in the Divinity of the Bible. I believe that religions eventually descend into a political arena which has been used to control the ignorant masses (and by that I mean more on a historical basis). I believe that for many, faith is a crutch. It is used to remain apart from logic and reason, to answer things that have no answer. I believe that religion is a security blanket that answers those same answerless questions, one of which is what happens after death.

If there is an issue you would like to discuss or know my stance on, just ask. Honestly, I have participated in too many varied discussions here to keep track of. So if you question my sincerity on any singular topic, just let me know. I am not trying to be evasive, as heiscomingsoon is implying. There is simply too much to go back through.

So ask away.
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Thank you for you answer. It helps me to understand you a bit more...I really do appreciate it.

If I may pose a challenge to you. When you are debating a topic, since you are not committed to one particular stance, pick one and argue (or discuss) it all the way through) I am very curious to see where it will end up and given your intense desire for knowledge it should be pretty interesting.

Gen
 
Tell you what, start a new thread so it doesn't get lost in here.

I will take the Freethinker stance and continue until you are satisfied we have come to a conclusion.

I'm not trying to be evasive, I just think that at this juncture you have a better idea of what you would like to discuss based on your impression of me (for good or bad)
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At first I was not going to jump on the chance to start a new thread. I think things will evolve nicely over time given the eclectic mix on the boards. The idea intrigues me though, so I may. Just going to mull it over tonight.

As I am a Christian, my goal is to see people accept Christ as their Saviour. As a former Christian, you probably know that, so there is nothing hidden. And while there may be times that I will want to come through the computer at you, I doubt that will be a one way sentiment
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. I will try very hard to not "preach" to you, but I am going to hold you accountable to your stance.

Gen
 
No problem. It is my choice, so I should be accountable for it.

Just remember, I will hold you accountable for your beliefs as well
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