Dark Virtue
New Member
DarthDapor said:
And those two would be?
Intellectual or Emotional?
- Thread starter Razi_Alaster
- Start date
And those two would be?
ChickenSoup
Banned
*sigh* I always thought love was just, well, love...
DarthDapor
New Member
(sigh) There is the love for a significant other, and there is love that christians are called to show to the world.
Dark Virtue
New Member
Would you mind explaining why you broke love into those two groups?
They don't seem to be dichotomous.
They don't seem to be dichotomous.
DarthDapor
New Member
Because it works.
Goose62
New Member
So my love for my wife is supposed to fall in the category of "signifant other", right? Ok, so what about my love for my brother? I don't show him the same love that I have for my wife, and I won't show him the same love I have for the world. So your two categories don't work.
Dark Virtue
New Member
That wasn't much of an explanation.
If you can't explain it, just say so.
If you can't explain it, just say so.
DarthDapor
New Member
Ok I con't explain it.
By the way I just said that because I'm tired of this thread. (maybe that will end it)
By the way I just said that because I'm tired of this thread. (maybe that will end it)
Shyfroggy
Member
Razi_Alastar
What are your thoughts?
What are your thoughts?
Dark Virtue
New Member
DarthDapor said:
LOL, if you say so
Genesis1315
Ladies
Okay, I have searched through the OT and NT and while there are different type of love mentioned (interestingly enough, the OT and NT do not use the same words for love)
(More to come, just need to organize my thoughts.)
(More to come, just need to organize my thoughts.)
Dark Virtue
New Member
Genesis1315 said:
Didn't I already establish that?
Eros, agape, phileo, et al, remember?
Razi_Alaster
New Member
Sorry, my opinion on this topic will come soon. I still need some more time and would love to here more opinions and views. In my view of the world right now, as it is and as my mind sits in its current place. I feel that if there was any philosophical thought that everyone should think about if they were to think about only one, this should be very high on the list of potential thoughts. I think this alone could drastically change a person's life.. for better or worse. That is, Emotion vs Intellect and the correlation between the two, not just simply Love being emotion or intellect.
I would also like to ask the following questions that are attached to the original questions. Intended to push them further and spur on more thought.
Do emotions fade?
If love is an emotion, is it the exception?
If so, how is love the exception, or how is it different?
Isolate happiness and anger, as in the emotions themselves, raw and unattached to the cause. Explain what makes them different? Is one better then the other? Is one right as opposed to the other? Or are they linked to their causes respectively in an unboundable way? Perhaps it is the cause that makes them right or wrong? Good or bad? For instance doing something evil that makes you happy. Or rightfully getting upset at your child or friend when they have done something wrong. Can you chose to become angry or not? To love or not to love? To enjoy or not to enjoy? Or do emotions govern these choices apart and unbound from intellect and/or their causes?
Are there other exceptions?
Can you seperate the two during the decision making process? Or is it possible to use only one for different situations?
ie. Loving your spouse is an emotion, yet loving your enemy is a choice?
Is making your decisions based on intellect unstable because the mind can change or become persuaded?
Must there be a balance? If so, explain this balance.
I know some of you have already answered some of these quetions as well as prompted me to come up with some. I invite you to answer the rest and with as much detail as you can.
After a few weeks of thought, these are some of the more prominent questions and thoughts that have risen up and I would love to here your views on them.
I would also like to ask the following questions that are attached to the original questions. Intended to push them further and spur on more thought.
Do emotions fade?
If love is an emotion, is it the exception?
If so, how is love the exception, or how is it different?
Isolate happiness and anger, as in the emotions themselves, raw and unattached to the cause. Explain what makes them different? Is one better then the other? Is one right as opposed to the other? Or are they linked to their causes respectively in an unboundable way? Perhaps it is the cause that makes them right or wrong? Good or bad? For instance doing something evil that makes you happy. Or rightfully getting upset at your child or friend when they have done something wrong. Can you chose to become angry or not? To love or not to love? To enjoy or not to enjoy? Or do emotions govern these choices apart and unbound from intellect and/or their causes?
Are there other exceptions?
Can you seperate the two during the decision making process? Or is it possible to use only one for different situations?
ie. Loving your spouse is an emotion, yet loving your enemy is a choice?
Is making your decisions based on intellect unstable because the mind can change or become persuaded?
Must there be a balance? If so, explain this balance.
I know some of you have already answered some of these quetions as well as prompted me to come up with some. I invite you to answer the rest and with as much detail as you can.
After a few weeks of thought, these are some of the more prominent questions and thoughts that have risen up and I would love to here your views on them.
Shyfroggy
Member
Do emotions fade?
I say yes and no to that question...This question made me think about love vs. lust....both in my opinion are along the lines of emotions, however, lust fades and love doesn't...that is what makes love so much different. Another example is anger towards somebody that lessens, you could say the emotion of anger fades when it becomes less...So I think certain emotions might fade, but when it comes to love/friendship/family I think that though the emotions may change during different times, I don't think they completely fade....
If love is an emotion, is it the exception?
No. and after I typed no, I found myself saying yes. When I think about the examples I gave as to why emotions would fade, the first one that came to mind was love...if it's true, it doesn't fade...if it isn't true - well that is called lust......it might be the exception....I must think more on that one.
If so, how is love the exception, or how is it different?
It's different because if you love somebody, no matter what they do, or how things change, you still love them.
Isolate happiness and anger, as in the emotions themselves, raw and unattached to the cause. Explain what makes them different?
Happiness is enjoying, showing, or marked by pleasure, satisfaction, or joy.
Anger is a strong feeling of displeasure or hostility.
Is one better then the other? Is one right as opposed to the other?
Tis always better to try and be happy, makes life much more enjoyable....Is it always right? depends on the situation...would I be happy if my dog died, no of course not...but overall I think happy happy happy is a much happier way to live?!
Or are they linked to their causes respectively in an unboundable way?
what do you mean linked to their cause? like if somebody does something to make one angry? or make one happy?
Can you chose to become angry or not?
Of course I'd like to believe I can control such a thing, and to a certain extent I can, I choose to be around people who will bring me up and create happiness as opposed to somebody who will bring me down thus breeding anger.....however, I will say there have been times when I stumbled across things that made me very angry, but to this day I'm not sure if I was angry or just hurt....
To love or not to love?
Can you choose to love or not to love? I think sometimes it is a choice - like loving your enemy...but on the other hand I think the miraclous coming together of two beings - God placing two people together - I don't think you can choose that kind of love....
To enjoy or not to enjoy?
This reminds me of something my parents taught me, You have a choice, you can choose to be happy, or you can choose to be right - it's up to you.
Or do emotions govern these choices apart and unbound from intellect and/or their causes?
Yes emotions do govern our choices, and that is where we have to make the decision to allow our heart or our head to rule our choices.
Can you seperate the two during the decision making process? Or is it possible to use only one for different situations?
Can you separate the two- sure. Does it always happen? for me - no not always - sometimes I tend to let my heart rule a little more....
Is making your decisions based on intellect unstable because the mind can change or become persuaded?
I think we are in control of being persuaded....that if you believe strongly enough, then nobody can persuade you otherwise.
Must there be a balance? If so, explain this balance.
Balance in what? anger/happiness/love (the above quesitons you asked?) I kind of don't know what you are referring to here.
We are still waiting to hear your views!
I say yes and no to that question...This question made me think about love vs. lust....both in my opinion are along the lines of emotions, however, lust fades and love doesn't...that is what makes love so much different. Another example is anger towards somebody that lessens, you could say the emotion of anger fades when it becomes less...So I think certain emotions might fade, but when it comes to love/friendship/family I think that though the emotions may change during different times, I don't think they completely fade....
If love is an emotion, is it the exception?
No. and after I typed no, I found myself saying yes. When I think about the examples I gave as to why emotions would fade, the first one that came to mind was love...if it's true, it doesn't fade...if it isn't true - well that is called lust......it might be the exception....I must think more on that one.
If so, how is love the exception, or how is it different?
It's different because if you love somebody, no matter what they do, or how things change, you still love them.
Isolate happiness and anger, as in the emotions themselves, raw and unattached to the cause. Explain what makes them different?
Happiness is enjoying, showing, or marked by pleasure, satisfaction, or joy.
Anger is a strong feeling of displeasure or hostility.
Is one better then the other? Is one right as opposed to the other?
Tis always better to try and be happy, makes life much more enjoyable....Is it always right? depends on the situation...would I be happy if my dog died, no of course not...but overall I think happy happy happy is a much happier way to live?!
Or are they linked to their causes respectively in an unboundable way?
what do you mean linked to their cause? like if somebody does something to make one angry? or make one happy?
Can you chose to become angry or not?
Of course I'd like to believe I can control such a thing, and to a certain extent I can, I choose to be around people who will bring me up and create happiness as opposed to somebody who will bring me down thus breeding anger.....however, I will say there have been times when I stumbled across things that made me very angry, but to this day I'm not sure if I was angry or just hurt....
To love or not to love?
Can you choose to love or not to love? I think sometimes it is a choice - like loving your enemy...but on the other hand I think the miraclous coming together of two beings - God placing two people together - I don't think you can choose that kind of love....
To enjoy or not to enjoy?
This reminds me of something my parents taught me, You have a choice, you can choose to be happy, or you can choose to be right - it's up to you.
Or do emotions govern these choices apart and unbound from intellect and/or their causes?
Yes emotions do govern our choices, and that is where we have to make the decision to allow our heart or our head to rule our choices.
Can you seperate the two during the decision making process? Or is it possible to use only one for different situations?
Can you separate the two- sure. Does it always happen? for me - no not always - sometimes I tend to let my heart rule a little more....
Is making your decisions based on intellect unstable because the mind can change or become persuaded?
I think we are in control of being persuaded....that if you believe strongly enough, then nobody can persuade you otherwise.
Must there be a balance? If so, explain this balance.
Balance in what? anger/happiness/love (the above quesitons you asked?) I kind of don't know what you are referring to here.
We are still waiting to hear your views!
Razi_Alaster
New Member
Eon said:
This is what I lean towards the more and more I think and research this. Just to give you an idea of where I stand. The reason I'm taking so long is because I've never thought this through well enough to give an adequately detailed explanation of why I stand there. I needed some help with seeing other peoples views and thoughts, before I could be sure that I firmly believed my own. As well as time to think things through and see everyday examples that relate to this topic.
Unforunatly I still haven't found the words to put my thoughts into that would best represent my views and so until I do, I won't be able to post it here, but your responses have been very helpful to me, thank you. However, I do plan on posting eventually. It just takes me a fair while longer then most people I presume. Thanks for you patience.
Razi_Alaster
New Member
Thanks for your thought through reply Shyfroggy.
I do have a couple questions from your last post.
Is this up to chance then? Do I have no control over whether love turns out to be true or not?
Wouldn't this be a choice? If they hurt you and offended you, your naturally feeling is to defend yourself and get upset. But instead you choose to love them through it anyways? Naturally this choice would be much more easily made with your best friend or family, so the choice might not seem as evident as opposed to a stranger who rapes your sister or kills your parents? Extreme examples yes, but they bring out the sincerity and contrast all the more.
Forgiveness. Isn't forgiveness an expression of love? Is there a way to sincerily forgive someone without love? Is not forgiveness a choice to be made? And is it not often a choice that is made that is against your current feelings and emotions. ie. Forgiving the rapist or murderer. I know I sure wouldn't feel like forgiving them, but I do know that it would be the right thing to do. Some thoughts to go along with the previous paragraph.
God's love for me is real. Its true and deep. (DV said once that when discussing things with Christians, certain assumptions must be made, and this is one of those) It is more then I can imagine. Yet I can't feel it. I can't cuddle up with God, nor can I kiss Him or hug Him. Or stare into His eyes or hold His hand. Neither can I have a vocal conversation with God, or joke around with Him like I do with my best friend or brothers. I can't play wrestle or shoot hoops with Him. I can't compliment Him and see His face afterwards, or help Him complete something and watch Him as He expresses His thanks. He doesn't give me roses or leave notes that say, "I love you!", all around the house nor can I do the same for Him. Yet He loves me? All of the above have an emotional feeling(s) attached to them and all of them are expressions of love from one person to another. All of the emotions attached to those expressions, in my experiences, have come and gone. Some stayed for much longer then others, mind you.
I know this "version" of love already and have experienced it. I want to know God's "version" of love. I want to love others as He loves. Right now, God truely loves me. And at the same time, right now, it does not feel like any of the emotions attached to the above expressions. Nor do I think Paul felt His love before God appeared to him while he was running around killing Christians. Obviously, God still loved Paul, before and after.
This leads me to yet another question. Is God's love an emotion?
I do have a couple questions from your last post.
Shyfroggy said:
Is this up to chance then? Do I have no control over whether love turns out to be true or not?
Shyfroggy said:
Wouldn't this be a choice? If they hurt you and offended you, your naturally feeling is to defend yourself and get upset. But instead you choose to love them through it anyways? Naturally this choice would be much more easily made with your best friend or family, so the choice might not seem as evident as opposed to a stranger who rapes your sister or kills your parents? Extreme examples yes, but they bring out the sincerity and contrast all the more.
Forgiveness. Isn't forgiveness an expression of love? Is there a way to sincerily forgive someone without love? Is not forgiveness a choice to be made? And is it not often a choice that is made that is against your current feelings and emotions. ie. Forgiving the rapist or murderer. I know I sure wouldn't feel like forgiving them, but I do know that it would be the right thing to do. Some thoughts to go along with the previous paragraph.
God's love for me is real. Its true and deep. (DV said once that when discussing things with Christians, certain assumptions must be made, and this is one of those) It is more then I can imagine. Yet I can't feel it. I can't cuddle up with God, nor can I kiss Him or hug Him. Or stare into His eyes or hold His hand. Neither can I have a vocal conversation with God, or joke around with Him like I do with my best friend or brothers. I can't play wrestle or shoot hoops with Him. I can't compliment Him and see His face afterwards, or help Him complete something and watch Him as He expresses His thanks. He doesn't give me roses or leave notes that say, "I love you!", all around the house nor can I do the same for Him. Yet He loves me? All of the above have an emotional feeling(s) attached to them and all of them are expressions of love from one person to another. All of the emotions attached to those expressions, in my experiences, have come and gone. Some stayed for much longer then others, mind you.
I know this "version" of love already and have experienced it. I want to know God's "version" of love. I want to love others as He loves. Right now, God truely loves me. And at the same time, right now, it does not feel like any of the emotions attached to the above expressions. Nor do I think Paul felt His love before God appeared to him while he was running around killing Christians. Obviously, God still loved Paul, before and after.
This leads me to yet another question.
Is God's love an emotion?
Razi_Alaster
New Member
Thanks for your reply Snake_Six.
Your view has caught my attention and interest, but you kept it very vague. Would you be able to elaborate on it? I'm very interested in what you have to say and why you view it this way.
To me it doesn't make sense. My emotions and Intellect don't always match up together nor do they agree all the time. I must decide which one to listen to in order to make decisions. All of our decisions are based on one or the other, or both. An example to help illustrate my point, would be forgiveness. If someone murdered a family member of mine, my emotions would tell me nothing of forgiveness, but of revenge and hate. My intellect would disagree with those feelings. It would tell me the right thing to do is to ignore my feelings and do what is right and forgive. I now have to choose which one I will listen to.
Pride would be another example. Some people are too proud to accept correction. The saying, "Swallow your pride", refers to this very thing. One has to put aside their pride, their stubborness, and go against what they feel like doing and do what is right.
This is my current preception of emotions and intellect, but not at all something that I have written in stone.
That is what this whole thread is about. I want to learn from your views to better understand my own. I completely understand that I am blind to some very important views. Thats my purpose for this thread. To understand and become aware of other views. I would love for you to elaborate on yours.
Your view has caught my attention and interest, but you kept it very vague. Would you be able to elaborate on it? I'm very interested in what you have to say and why you view it this way.
To me it doesn't make sense. My emotions and Intellect don't always match up together nor do they agree all the time. I must decide which one to listen to in order to make decisions. All of our decisions are based on one or the other, or both. An example to help illustrate my point, would be forgiveness. If someone murdered a family member of mine, my emotions would tell me nothing of forgiveness, but of revenge and hate. My intellect would disagree with those feelings. It would tell me the right thing to do is to ignore my feelings and do what is right and forgive. I now have to choose which one I will listen to.
Pride would be another example. Some people are too proud to accept correction. The saying, "Swallow your pride", refers to this very thing. One has to put aside their pride, their stubborness, and go against what they feel like doing and do what is right.
This is my current preception of emotions and intellect, but not at all something that I have written in stone.
That is what this whole thread is about. I want to learn from your views to better understand my own. I completely understand that I am blind to some very important views. Thats my purpose for this thread. To understand and become aware of other views. I would love for you to elaborate on yours.
Alas Love does fade - but you can keep the burnish on it if you renew that love often enough.
Alas in my life I have made many poor decisions, one of which was the decision to put my career ahead of my wife. We did not renew our love (and I'm speaking of love not lust here - we had an active sex life) often enough and paid the price in a gradual growing apart and a realisation that we were no longer in love.
Sorry for the sob story, but I thought we should be clear on this.
Alas in my life I have made many poor decisions, one of which was the decision to put my career ahead of my wife. We did not renew our love (and I'm speaking of love not lust here - we had an active sex life) often enough and paid the price in a gradual growing apart and a realisation that we were no longer in love.
Sorry for the sob story, but I thought we should be clear on this.
Razi, after forgiving the murderer, would you still want him put to death for his crimes? That would be a use of both emotion and intellect. You have forgiven the person, but emotion is still satisfied because he's dead (justice).
God gave us both emotion and itellect, emotion to love Him with and intellect to tell us how (through His revelation to us).
I don't really know how to explain my statement, but here goes.
The best way to live is emotion tempered by intellect.
Example:
You see a candy bar and make a snap decision to buy it, that is being ruled by emotion. If you stop and think and decide you shouldn't buy the candy for whatever reason, that is ruled by intellect.
If you stop and think and decide that you will get the candy later for whatever reason, that is emotion tempered by intellect. The emotion is satified because it gets what it wants, just not right now.
The intellect is satified because you thought the situation through.
Did that make any sense to anybody?
God gave us both emotion and itellect, emotion to love Him with and intellect to tell us how (through His revelation to us).
I don't really know how to explain my statement, but here goes.
The best way to live is emotion tempered by intellect.
Example:
You see a candy bar and make a snap decision to buy it, that is being ruled by emotion. If you stop and think and decide you shouldn't buy the candy for whatever reason, that is ruled by intellect.
If you stop and think and decide that you will get the candy later for whatever reason, that is emotion tempered by intellect. The emotion is satified because it gets what it wants, just not right now.
The intellect is satified because you thought the situation through.
Did that make any sense to anybody?