John 6:44

No offense meant, but make sure you read a few verses before and after the one you have questions about. You may be surprised. Let’s take a look at that verse with 43 and 45 after it.
John 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
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In verse 45 we read that everyone shall be taught about God, and that if you accept what you hear and choose Jesus as your savior, you'll go to Heaven.

I found this under one of the commentary links in the Bible program I have;
But how is a man drawn? St. Augustin answers from the poet, Trahit sua quemque voluptas; a man is attracted by that which he delights in. Show green herbage to a sheep, he is drawn by it: show nuts to a child, and he is drawn by them. They run wherever the person runs who shows these things: they run after him, but they are not forced to follow; they run, through the desire they feel to get the things they delight in. So God draws man: he shows him his wants-he shows the Saviour whom he has provided for him: the man feels himself a lost sinner; and, through the desire which he finds to escape hell, and get to heaven, he comes unto Christ, that he may be justified by his blood. Unless God thus draw, no man will ever come to Christ; because none could, without this drawing, ever feel the need of a Saviour. See August. Tract. 26, in Joan. and Calmet.
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Also, to add.

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him
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I.e. by faith, not a logical head knowledge of God

and I will raise him up at the last day.
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And God will bring him out of the sinful life he was leading. On the day before being called by the Lord...it will be his last day of a sinful life

Gen

Thanks to Crosswalk for their notes on the Bible Verses, the online Stong's and the Lord for providing insight on the first two things mentioned.
 
[toj.cc]phantom said:
No offense meant, but make sure you read a few verses before and after the one you have questions about. You may be surprised. Let’s take a look at that verse with 43 and 45 after it.

In verse 45 we read that everyone shall be taught about God, and that if you accept what you hear and choose Jesus as your savior, you'll go to Heaven.
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Uh, you're reading into the verse something that isn't there.

Examine the verses closely.

John 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
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THEY in verse 45 refers to men that have been drawn by God. That is, men that have been drawn to God shall be taught of God. Every one of THOSE men, those called by God will haved learned of God and come unto Christ.

There is NOTHING in those verses that says that EVERY MAN will be taught about God or called by God.
 
Let's take it one step further:

John 6:65
Romans 8:29,30
All of Romans chapter 9
Ephesians 1:4,5
2 Thessalonians 2:13
And many more...

It is a tough concept for most to accept. Am I the only one here that believes in predestination?
 
John 3:16 sums it up for me. God calls whosoever will come! Those are the chosen and predestined.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 
Didasko said:
Let's take it one step further:

John 6:65
Romans 8:29,30
All of Romans chapter 9
Ephesians 1:4,5
2 Thessalonians 2:13
And many more...

It is a tough concept for most to accept. Am I the only one here that believes in predestination?
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No, you're not.
 
Marcylene said:
John 3:16 sums it up for me. God calls whosoever will come! Those are the chosen and predestined.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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Marcy, you can't have Free Will AND Predestination.
 
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6

That is how :)

Gen
 
I do not know of any that have diligently sought Him with their hearts and not found Him. Those who have sought Him from an educational (head knowledge) persective, may never find him.

Just as an example, one can study about anyone in history. They can learn or memorize various aspects of a historical figure. But do they truely know that person?

Gen
 
Dark Virtue said:
Now you know someone.
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God will never lie. He says for those who seek Him with their whole hearts WILL find Him. Just consider yourself not at the end of your journey...or examine yourself in your searching.
 
Well I did seek him with my whole heart until I couldn't bear it any more and found nothing.

That's why I asked about John 6:44.

Like you, I also believed that God would not lie. That's why I stopped believing he existed.
 
TheJfreak said:
What is "pre destination" never heard the term and i love learning new stuff.
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Put simply predestination is the belief that man is so depraved that he cannot come to God on his own. God must 'call' a person before they have the faith to turn to Him. God chose who he will call...and who he will not...before creation.

It is a tough doctrine and one that many Christians find to harsh to accept. There are many verses in the Bible that support the belief and many instances of God hardening peoples hearts.
 
Let me ask you this Didasko...

I'll use myself as an example, let's say I had all the desire in the world to know God and be a Christian...if God has not called me, no matter how hard I tried, or how much desire I had...I would not find God unless he called me?

Because THAT is how I read John 6:44
 
Dark Virtue said:
Let me ask you this Didasko...
I'll use myself as an example, let's say I had all the desire in the world to know God and be a Christian...if God has not called me, no matter how hard I tried, or how much desire I had...I would not find God unless he called me?
Because THAT is how I read John 6:44
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I know people get irritated by hearing that the Bible has to be interpreted by the Bible. I mean no disrespect, but that teaching is straight from hell and goes against much more Scripture than can be twisted and confirmed thereby.
I can hear you now, DV. What makes me think I am right? Compare Scripture by Scripture.
John 3:16
Romans 10:13
To name 2. You cannot believe that there are "chosen" ones when you read those. That is a dangerous doctrine. Perhaps that is your stumbling block, DV. You cannot believe that and hand in hand believe that God is being faithful and true when He says:
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:17
I am sorry, but that is not the open invitation of the God of all Creation who has a chosen few.

Here is another example:
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. John 6:37
Father giveth me...a few handful of chosen, you may ask. ugh ugh! Because if you look at John 3:16, it says God loved the world and sent His Son Jesus for the world...continuing in verses 17 & 18
For God sent not his son to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
God tells us to put on the helmet of salvation. That protects our minds from believing we are not saved. When we doubt, we can go to the Word of God and put stakes down on His promises. Where is the assurance of salvation if I believe that I must be a chosen one? The only "if" I am saved comes from verse 17, that being "might be saved," as in my choice!!!
 
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Normally I would take that route Marcy, but you have Christians, RIGHT HERE ON THIS BOARD, that disagree with you that support their views of predestination that same way you do, WITH THE BIBLE.

So what is a nonChristian supposed to think when Christians themselves can't agree? Is this when the fingerpointing starts and you accuse Didasko of not being a "true" Christian and that he is simply incorrect in his understanding of the Bible?
 
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