Left Behind Games

ChickenSoup said:
I'll take this moment to point out that you don't have to be Christian to believe in right and wrong.
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Yes :) (as in the good Samaritan) in fact I'd go as far as to say that God holds us accountable for sin because we know what is actually right and wrong and choose to sin anyway (that's why I said on a conscious level not sub-consciously on the previous post). As far as all people, all consciously admitting to what is actually right and wrong that won't happen till Jesus comes back. A non-Christian worldview may or may not have some truth in it ,but, there is only one perfect worldview or example of how to live your life... Jesus. Only he was perfect, thus any other worldview must then be less than perfect.

This is the deference between a Christian worldview and others.

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

The house may be built but it will not endure.
 
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I never said the secular worldview was perfect. I only said that non-Christians can believe in right and wrong too and not have a Christian worldview. *is surprised that DV didn't say that first*
 
Dark Virtue said:
Were these guys in a cocoon when they designed this game or what? According to the article, their target audience boycotted the game and describe it as "hate-filled" and "bigoted".
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I spent the better part of an hour yesterday reading conflicting reports and press releases on Left Behind: Eternal Forces. I, as mentioned in other articles, tend not to trust news media and prefer to investigate issues for myself.

Unfortunately, the game demo (and correct me if I'm wrong here) as well as the retail package is packed with spyware. I would test the game personally, but will not install spyware on my system.

Has anyone in the community played Eternal Forces? Would you mind posting your thoughts on the game?
 
too...much...posting...gasp...collapses on keyboard

ChickenSoup said:
I never said the secular worldview was perfect. I only said that non-Christians can believe in right and wrong too and not have a Christian worldview. *is surprised that DV didn't say that first*
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I know dude I never said you did :) I just thought your post made my post appear like I was saying non-Christians couldn't believe in right and wrong. So I clarified just as you did. No disagreement.

Tek7 said:
Unfortunately, the game demo (and correct me if I'm wrong here) as well as the retail package is packed with spyware. I would test the game personally, but will not install spyware on my system.
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I'm not sure of the morality of spyware, but, if true that gets me thinking it has some non-Christian sentiment. From what I've read the game has adware which downloads in game ads and is in general annoying but not spyware (which um spys :p)

From the official description from Left Behind Games http://www.leftbehindgames.com/pages/the_games.htm
Of particular interest they say...

·Contrary to misinformation on the web, this game does not include references to any other religion. Also, there is NO killing in the name of God, and NO convert or die missions. All content has been reviewed and approved by Tyndale House Publishers prior to publication.

·Conduct warfare using the power of PRAYER and WORSHIP as more powerful weapons than guns.

Based on the wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Behind:_Eternal_Forces and the sources it quoted the game goes out of the way to make physical violence a last resort and in a self-defense situation (don't know how that would work in multiplayer though). The game does appear to have several technical issues in gameplay. For what it is worth I had been keeping only 3 links (I added one) in my favorites that go to sites that express specifically anti-Christian views on things. One of those sites (which claims to be Christian) is quoted as a source against the game.

The whole thing reminds me of when Pat Robertson made the statement that if we were going to have a war it would be better to take out the President of Venezuela to prevent it. "Christians" everywhere were objecting. The idea that Christians cannot kill under ANY circumstance is absolutely absurd and is not supported by the bible. Does anyone read the old testament anymore?

Anyway I haven't played the game so I don't know if it's content is in line with Christian doctrine. I will say it seems like web sites are very polarized about it. Here is plugged in's review in addition to the wiki sources. http://www.pluggedinonline.com/thisweekonly/a0002989.cfm
 
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I played the demo for a little bit, and it was just too complicated for me :\, that's why I didn't like it. I'm more into the easy for noobs RTS games.

I think the controversy is that you DO build soldiers and they DO have assault rifles, but mine never killed anyone. Ideally in the game you would fight by singing and praising God to convert people, but there ARE those enemies that WILL kill you unless your soldiers take them out. I think the fact that there is outrage over Christian soldiers is completely ridiculous, because in a kill or be killed situation, I think it's safe to say anyone would raise arms in defense of their life.
 
Tek7 said:
I spent the better part of an hour yesterday reading conflicting reports and press releases on Left Behind: Eternal Forces. I, as mentioned in other articles, tend not to trust news media and prefer to investigate issues for myself.

Unfortunately, the game demo (and correct me if I'm wrong here) as well as the retail package is packed with spyware. I would test the game personally, but will not install spyware on my system.

Has anyone in the community played Eternal Forces? Would you mind posting your thoughts on the game?
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I'd correct you if you were wrong...but you're right.
 
blackgravity said:
I played the demo for a little bit, and it was just too complicated for me :\, that's why I didn't like it. I'm more into the easy for noobs RTS games.

I think the controversy is that you DO build soldiers and they DO have assault rifles, but mine never killed anyone. Ideally in the game you would fight by singing and praising God to convert people, but there ARE those enemies that WILL kill you unless your soldiers take them out. I think the fact that there is outrage over Christian soldiers is completely ridiculous, because in a kill or be killed situation, I think it's safe to say anyone would raise arms in defense of their life.
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So much for turning the other cheek :p

This brings up an interesting question though. Could an army be raised, in this day and age, that was completely Christian and answered to no one but God?
 
Two words: The Crusades. Although, they more or less answered to the Pope and the Catholic Church.

EDIT: In this day and age? I doubt it--it'd be kinda small and its leader would probably be Pat Robertson
 
My last Sqweak for a bit

If I thought my murderer would get saved If I died I'd like to say I would be willing to die akin to Christ (I think it would be arrogant of me to say I definitely would). However, if I believed he would continue to kill others how could I not try to stop him even if it meant killing him? In the Sudan many Christians are dying at the hands of the Muslims, but, more Muslims there are converting to Christianity than ever before. They are probably convicted of their own conscience when they see all the atrocities brought about by their own religion. The point is we live by the word of God not by the sword.

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Matthew 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

So If God says die willingly, I do, but, if God says pick up the sword and fight, I fight...

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8
1 There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven—
2 A time to give birth and a time to die;
A time to plant and a time to uproot what is planted.
3 A time to kill and a time to heal;
A time to tear down and a time to build up.
4 A time to weep and a time to laugh;
A time to mourn and a time to dance.
5 A time to throw stones and a time to gather stones;
A time to embrace and a time to shun embracing.
6 A time to search and a time to give up as lost;
A time to keep and a time to throw away.
7 A time to tear apart and a time to sew together;
A time to be silent and a time to speak.
8 A time to love and a time to hate;
A time for war and a time for peace

And as far as Pat Robertson's comments about preventing war by taking out the President of Venezuela...

Matthew 18:8-9
8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. 9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Long ago there was a kid in my school who went around disrespecting teachers, not doing assignments, cussing and once wearing a rather obscene t-shirt. This kid used to follow me around and talk trash about my parents and insult me in general. While I am not perfect I NEVER GAVE this kid any reason to pick on me. He singled me out probably because I would tolerate it. I tried the talking to him approach, the telling the teachers approach, but, after a couple months of this I decided it wasn't right and turned around and hit him. After that he had respect for me and we could talk civilly, he learned RESPECT. Unless a person respects you they will never listen to you no matter what you say. You see I was afraid of hurting him by punching him, but, by not punching him I was hurting him more...

Proverbs 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes...or "spare the rod spoil the child" if you prefer.

And if you still doubt there is a time for violence in the life of a Christian Jesus himself physically cast the moneychangers out of the temple...

Matthew 21:12-13
12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, 13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

So you know much of the Crusades is condemned today because the Crusaders killed without distinction. Jews along with every one else. Basically they had gotten into replacement theology which said the Jews were abandoned by God and not entitled to Israel anymore which is not in line with the Bible. So they were not liberating the holy lands, but, taking it for themselves. Ok I got to take a break from the forums or at least cut back. Seriously I got things I've been putting off and little time for posting, but, I'll see you guys later :)
 
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ChickenSoup said:
Two words: The Crusades. Although, they more or less answered to the Pope and the Catholic Church.

EDIT: In this day and age? I doubt it--it'd be kinda small and its leader would probably be Pat Robertson
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Ick, C$!!! Please, don't bring up the crusades. :eek:

Not that I'm trying to pretend that they didn't happen, but the Crusades ranks up with the Munster Decable for not-that-good moments in Christian history.

The Crusaders did not answer to the Pope, nor to the Catholic Church. The vast majority of them answered only to their own purses in a desire for wealth. The only crusade that was blessed by a Pope was the "Children's Crusade" which was not really a crusade at all but was really just a huge mob of teenagers and older children who got sick of the crappy lives that the adults around them were living and wanted to devote their lives to God. They marched en masse on Rome and asked for an audience with the Pope. Their intention was for him to tell them where they could go and (probably millitantly) take over for God, crusade-style. The Pope blessed them and told them that the best place for them to live sacrificially for God was in their own lives. They dispersed and went home.

I'm aware that the wikipedia article on Children's Crusades doesn't line up with what I just said, all I can say is that my version comes from my history textbook from last year (which I don't have anymore.)

Anyhow the rest of the crusades were pretty nasty affairs that were more-or-less independant of the Church and were geared more towards getting rich than evangelism. The final Crusade culminated with the crusaders burning, killing, and stealing their way through Constantinople, the capital of Eastern Christendom. Yeah, that's right, the crusaders went and attacked the Church.
 
Dark Virtue said:
So much for turning the other cheek :p

This brings up an interesting question though. Could an army be raised, in this day and age, that was completely Christian and answered to no one but God?
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My question is what would an army that was completely Christian and answered to no one but God do??

I imagine they'd all move en force into some downtrodden nation and start working to alleviate the effects of poverty.

My biggest problem with LB:EF is the idea that an army of God would act like an army of man. I'm fully aware that so-called "armies of God" constantly do act like armies of men... see the above post on the crusades or look at the terrorists who bombed the Trade Centers -- it's pretty obvious. But I really don't see that a real Christian army that is led by the Holy Spirit (at least theoretically) would spend its time getting in firefights with some other army. I think they would spend their time defending the innocent and the downtrodden.

In today's day and age, AIDS and starvation are among the biggest threats to the poor and downtrodden. I'd think an army of God's would work to mitigate those things.
 
Neirai the Forgiven said:
My question is what would an army that was completely Christian and answered to no one but God do??

I imagine they'd all move en force into some downtrodden nation and start working to alleviate the effects of poverty.

My biggest problem with LB:EF is the idea that an army of God would act like an army of man. I'm fully aware that so-called "armies of God" constantly do act like armies of men... see the above post on the crusades or look at the terrorists who bombed the Trade Centers -- it's pretty obvious. But I really don't see that a real Christian army that is led by the Holy Spirit (at least theoretically) would spend its time getting in firefights with some other army. I think they would spend their time defending the innocent and the downtrodden.

In today's day and age, AIDS and starvation are among the biggest threats to the poor and downtrodden. I'd think an army of God's would work to mitigate those things.
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When was the last time you read the Old Testament?

I don't remember the armies of God working to alleviate the effects of poverty or starvation.
 
Don't forget that Jesus was the bridge between the "old ways" and the "new ways". In His miracles, Jesus fed several thousand people on more than one occasion. I can't tell you the last time I can say I served 4,000 people.

Besides, a fair amount of the Old Testament was just geared towards survival of themselves. The hungry don't have food to give to other hungry people. When the Israelites were slaves in Egypt, they didn't have anything to give. When they spent 40 years in the desert, they didn't have anything to give. When the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed by the (Romans?) and the Israelites were scattered, they didn't have anything to give. When everything that Job had was destroyed by a test from Satan, Job had nothing left to give.

The Old Testament tells more about the survival of God's people. It does give instructions on how to live, but under constant persecution and attack, even if they did feed the starving neighbor, it probably wasn't the biggest thing they had to talk about.
 
For the record, Solomon's temple was destroyed by Nebudcanezzar (no, I can't spell his name right. sue me.) And Zerubbabel's (no, that's not spelled right either.) was destroyed by the romans.
 
Zerubbabel is actually spelled right, but it was Herod the Great that built the temple that the Romans destroyed.

Also, the point of an army is not to alleviate any problems. It is to destroy an enemy. (Prepare for semi-conservative rant.) The problem we are having in Iraq is very similar to the problem we have in public schools right now-- people being asked to do jobs they are not equipped to do.

Our military is an extremely effective fighting unit, the best in the world by far. No one comes close to us in terms of sheer force. However, they are not nation builders by trade. They have done an admirable job with these added and unnecessary duties, but they are not equipped to be a humanitarian force.

Similarly, teachers are being asked to train not just academics, but also morals and basic life skills. It has been the parents' responsibility to train a child in morals and how to live since the beginning of time, until the last century. I'd put a start date to that as 1917, the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia which started the creation of the USSR. They pioneered the concept of state-sponsored moral training (and look at how wonderful Russia is now!), and slowly, parents in the U.S. have become more and more dependent on the state to raise their kids morally. The point is, teachers should not be asked to be life coaches and more than our trained destroyers should be asked to build nations.

Back on topic: a "Christian Army" would be self-contradictory without clear mandate from God. If God ordains it, anything is possible. If men got together and formed an army in the name of Jesus, it would fail miserably.
 
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