M$ doing what they do best...
- Thread starter tjguitarz
- Start date
blackgravity
New Member
Yeah I just read about that on Kotaku, I guess I just think it's silly. What is now the "core" Wii demographic is still not going to buy a 360, and I, still, will never care if PS3 or 360 has a Wii-like controller. But hey, if the controls are done properly (if ever) on games like Ninja Gaiden or Devil May Cry, maybe you'll see me eating my words.
It's just gonna be very upsetting to me if 2 years from now I have no choice but to waggle away in every single game. Don't get me wrong, a proper control scheme for anything with swords/lightsabers/fistfighting/gunfights will rock, but nothing beats a good old gamepad to me. But I guess MS is at least paying attention to consumers, because I would much rather have perma-waggle than EVER have to deal with 100% SIXAXIS gameplay....I really hate the SIXAXIS, even in games that incorporate it nicely.
It's just gonna be very upsetting to me if 2 years from now I have no choice but to waggle away in every single game. Don't get me wrong, a proper control scheme for anything with swords/lightsabers/fistfighting/gunfights will rock, but nothing beats a good old gamepad to me. But I guess MS is at least paying attention to consumers, because I would much rather have perma-waggle than EVER have to deal with 100% SIXAXIS gameplay....I really hate the SIXAXIS, even in games that incorporate it nicely.
As I have already decided before reading this I will never buy an Xbox. I don't care if it is a good system or not I just don't feel right giving any more money than I have to Microsoft.
Speaking of Microsoft, I don't know if it is true, but there is talk of Microsoft upping their development schedule to come out with a new OS every 3 years. I do know it's been confirmed for the next Windows but not beyond that. I tend to wonder what will happen if hardware developments slow down or stop. Why would we need a new OS then? Of course who needs a new OS every 3 years anyway?
Speaking of Microsoft, I don't know if it is true, but there is talk of Microsoft upping their development schedule to come out with a new OS every 3 years. I do know it's been confirmed for the next Windows but not beyond that. I tend to wonder what will happen if hardware developments slow down or stop. Why would we need a new OS then? Of course who needs a new OS every 3 years anyway?
If that's true, than we all need to switch to Linux. Fast.
EDIT: OMG DUBBELPOAST???
Odale
Active Member
I don't believe it.
But it did remind me of a picture that exo-slayer posted a while back:
But it did remind me of a picture that exo-slayer posted a while back:
Odale
Active Member
Yep you double posted.
Hescominsoon
CGA\TOJ Hosting Manager
Believe it. From Gates himselfI don't believe it.
But it did remind me of a picture that exo-slayer posted a while back:
blackgravity
New Member
The thing is, it's not like they're actually going to spend the MASSIVE chunk of change it would take to update every game in the library to use such a device. Bah, the whole thing is just awful on so many levels.
And yeah, like Bonk! said, for the most part, Wii remote controls are bad in a lot of games. There's only a select few that intelligently and intuitively use the peripheral to enhance the experience. I feel like a jerk for buying Bleach, because all it does at this point is give me muscle aches (seriously, making it so you have to use Hanatarou to advance the story after a certain point is just plain horrifying)
And yeah, like Bonk! said, for the most part, Wii remote controls are bad in a lot of games. There's only a select few that intelligently and intuitively use the peripheral to enhance the experience. I feel like a jerk for buying Bleach, because all it does at this point is give me muscle aches (seriously, making it so you have to use Hanatarou to advance the story after a certain point is just plain horrifying)
vibrokatana
New Member
But think of all the exercise your getting.
/sarcasm
/sarcasm
Odale
Active Member
I was referring to Xbox and the new controller.
I guess part of me is a slight bit optimistic. M$ has some of the biggest companies in it's pocket, as well as a lot of the real big titles out there. Should the integration be GOOD -- nay -- PERFECT, then it will be brilliant. From what I've seen, the Wii hasn't done too much with the Nunchuck or it's capabilities. Then again, I don't follow the industry as much as I used to.
blackgravity
New Member
I just think motion sensitivity is slightly overrated. If gameplay is going to be crippled to give me the ability to turn my gun around, I'd rather not have it at all (I'm talking to YOU, Red Steel)
In reference to the amusing picture. Yeah Sony did kind of use a little ahem "creative license" 
coming up with the rumble and analog features (but at least they did improve on them). However, the 3rd party developers jumped ship on their own though because Nintendo unwisely stuck with the cartridge format producing the inferior N64 while Sony had the CD based Playstation. For example Square went to the Playstation before Sony's "controller upgrade" occurred and with the FMV of Final Fantasy 7 they could not have done otherwise (I know because I followed Square over from the N64 to play it 
). Not that any of this is important.
...And now for a fun fact you all probably know! Sony came out with not two controllers for the PS but three! Yes first there was the regular controller (which now that you mention it looks an awful lot like the Super Nes controller), then the "dual analog controller" (which was short lived and I got stuck with one), and finally they added the rumble for the "dual shock analog controller". Quite frankly compared to Microsoft's and Nintendo's current controllers Sony's seems like the best one ergonomically and design wise and it should be... since they "borrowed" the best elements from elsewhere to make it.
I guess I'm harder on Microsoft than Sony simply because they seem more dangerous to the consumer with them actively creating dependences to make money rather than making a quality product that would actually be useful and/or innovative. They also seem a little more ruthless towards any competition in anything they do too. To be more precise Nintendo lost it's market to Sony/Microsoft who where originally pushing mainly more mature type games with graphic processing "wow" factors. Instead of fighting them Nintendo settles for a niche in the market they aren't touching. Now Sony/Microsoft aren't satisfied with what they have and have to follow Nintendo and take what it's got left. It just seems greedy not competitive in my opinion.
coming up with the rumble and analog features (but at least they did improve on them). However, the 3rd party developers jumped ship on their own though because Nintendo unwisely stuck with the cartridge format producing the inferior N64 while Sony had the CD based Playstation. For example Square went to the Playstation before Sony's "controller upgrade" occurred and with the FMV of Final Fantasy 7 they could not have done otherwise (I know because I followed Square over from the N64 to play it ). Not that any of this is important....And now for a fun fact you all probably know! Sony came out with not two controllers for the PS but three! Yes first there was the regular controller (which now that you mention it looks an awful lot like the Super Nes controller), then the "dual analog controller" (which was short lived and I got stuck with one), and finally they added the rumble for the "dual shock analog controller". Quite frankly compared to Microsoft's and Nintendo's current controllers Sony's seems like the best one ergonomically and design wise and it should be... since they "borrowed" the best elements from elsewhere to make it
.I guess I'm harder on Microsoft than Sony simply because they seem more dangerous to the consumer with them actively creating dependences to make money rather than making a quality product that would actually be useful and/or innovative. They also seem a little more ruthless towards any competition in anything they do too. To be more precise Nintendo lost it's market to Sony/Microsoft who where originally pushing mainly more mature type games with graphic processing "wow" factors. Instead of fighting them Nintendo settles for a niche in the market they aren't touching. Now Sony/Microsoft aren't satisfied with what they have and have to follow Nintendo and take what it's got left. It just seems greedy not competitive in my opinion.
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blackgravity
New Member
Well that seems to be the big issue. For one, it's still cheaper to buy a Wii(when you can find one). Two, the target demographic is WAY different. I really don't see Nintendo losing as customers to MS or Sony, EVER, when it comes to motion sensing controllers. It just seems to me MS is jumping on a bandwagon that may or may not last, I honestly feel the Wii's product offering is what makes it such a big seller, other than price. Sure, some games aren't going to be the same without motion sensing, but nobody cried ripoff about DDR using a mat controller (who's old enough to remember the PowerPad?)
Motion sensing is a big part of progression, and once the next big thing in game immersion comes along, who is ripping who off will still be a topic. The "console wars" really won't ever end, but 10 years from now, instead of "seriously, where's my rumble?" it will be "seriously, where's my motion detection?"
Motion sensing is a big part of progression, and once the next big thing in game immersion comes along, who is ripping who off will still be a topic. The "console wars" really won't ever end, but 10 years from now, instead of "seriously, where's my rumble?" it will be "seriously, where's my motion detection?"
I try not to say things like this too often, but: I saw this coming from a mile away.
Nintendo offers something new and innovative, convinces new demographics to try or return to video games by purchasing a Wii, pulls ahead of the pack in the console wars (in terms of units sold), and Sony and Microsoft respond by incorporating motion-sensitive controls.
I could rant and rave about how M$ has never offered a single innovation in its corporate lifetime and how even Windows is a ripoff of the Mac OS.
But I won't. Why? Because I predicted that Nintendo would push its competitors into offering something other than re-hashing their last-gen consoles with better graphics and sound--and now they have.
Don't get me wrong--I'll be the first to admit that the Wii Remote control scheme is broken in several titles. Dewy's Adventure is a prime example of a title that could have been great if not for the controls.
On the flipside, I played and loved Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, which remains my favorite first-person shooter on a console ever. I keep hoping that Rare will announce a Metroid Prime Arena title with online deathmatch (all the while knowing how unlikely that is).
Nintendo offered a new control scheme and, as odd as it may sound, I'm glad to see other companies copying it. Now all companies have something to compete against in the next generation. Nintendo will have to improve the motion-sensitive controls that made the Wii so popular. Microsoft and Sony will need to learn that most gamers care more about graphics than gameplay.
I know a lot of people are ready to throw stones at Microsoft, but can we really get so upset? It's not like Nintendo is the only company to ever offer any innovation in the field of video game consoles. Sega probably offered more innovation than Nintendo ever did. Nintendo largely just copied what Sega did, but did it better (and with fewer bad business decisions).
The Wii and DS represent Nintendo's first efforts to introduce innovation in a long time. While I love both my Wii and DS, I'm not so blindly dedicated to Nintendo that I don't remember that they spent several years following instead of leading.
Microsoft and Sony want to copy the Wii Remote? Bring 'em on! They'll just force Nintendo to offer new innovations to keep the new demographic they've introduced to video games. Maybe the next Nintendo console will feature head-tracking using a small earpiece. Maybe they'll give us motion-sensitive controls that live up to our (and Konami's, developers of Dewy's Adventure) dreams.
Competition is absolutely necessary for innovation in the entertainment industries. The scientific community is always struggling to fight disease, to save lives, to protect the environment (and, granted, turn a profit all the while). "Necessity is the mother of invention" and all that.
Video game console developers, on the other hand, would still be giving us Atari 2600-quality graphics with a single joystick and one button if they had no competitors.
I'm sure some team at Nintendo is already working on their next console. At the least, I hope they plan to improve the motion-sensitive controls and vastly improve the online features. The news about Microsoft's plans to offer a motion-sensitive controller for the 360 will likely inspire them to dream bigger and work harder.
Nintendo offers something new and innovative, convinces new demographics to try or return to video games by purchasing a Wii, pulls ahead of the pack in the console wars (in terms of units sold), and Sony and Microsoft respond by incorporating motion-sensitive controls.
I could rant and rave about how M$ has never offered a single innovation in its corporate lifetime and how even Windows is a ripoff of the Mac OS.
But I won't. Why? Because I predicted that Nintendo would push its competitors into offering something other than re-hashing their last-gen consoles with better graphics and sound--and now they have.
Don't get me wrong--I'll be the first to admit that the Wii Remote control scheme is broken in several titles. Dewy's Adventure is a prime example of a title that could have been great if not for the controls.
On the flipside, I played and loved Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, which remains my favorite first-person shooter on a console ever. I keep hoping that Rare will announce a Metroid Prime Arena title with online deathmatch (all the while knowing how unlikely that is).
Nintendo offered a new control scheme and, as odd as it may sound, I'm glad to see other companies copying it. Now all companies have something to compete against in the next generation. Nintendo will have to improve the motion-sensitive controls that made the Wii so popular. Microsoft and Sony will need to learn that most gamers care more about graphics than gameplay.
I know a lot of people are ready to throw stones at Microsoft, but can we really get so upset? It's not like Nintendo is the only company to ever offer any innovation in the field of video game consoles. Sega probably offered more innovation than Nintendo ever did. Nintendo largely just copied what Sega did, but did it better (and with fewer bad business decisions).
The Wii and DS represent Nintendo's first efforts to introduce innovation in a long time. While I love both my Wii and DS, I'm not so blindly dedicated to Nintendo that I don't remember that they spent several years following instead of leading.
Microsoft and Sony want to copy the Wii Remote? Bring 'em on! They'll just force Nintendo to offer new innovations to keep the new demographic they've introduced to video games. Maybe the next Nintendo console will feature head-tracking using a small earpiece. Maybe they'll give us motion-sensitive controls that live up to our (and Konami's, developers of Dewy's Adventure) dreams.
Competition is absolutely necessary for innovation in the entertainment industries. The scientific community is always struggling to fight disease, to save lives, to protect the environment (and, granted, turn a profit all the while). "Necessity is the mother of invention" and all that.
Video game console developers, on the other hand, would still be giving us Atari 2600-quality graphics with a single joystick and one button if they had no competitors.
I'm sure some team at Nintendo is already working on their next console. At the least, I hope they plan to improve the motion-sensitive controls and vastly improve the online features. The news about Microsoft's plans to offer a motion-sensitive controller for the 360 will likely inspire them to dream bigger and work harder.
Please don't use the acronym "OMG" on the forums. "OMW" ("Oh my word") works just as well.
There are a decent number of titles that offer terrific controls on the Wii.
- Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles
- Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
- Super Mario Galaxy
- Wario Ware: Smooth Moves
- Rayman Raving Rabbids
- Zelda: Twilight Princess
- Wii Sports
I rented Bleach and agree that the control scheme makes for some frustrating matches. Still, games that are developed for the Wii usually offer decent controls. The problem is all the shovelware and last-gen ports that keep getting dumped on to the system. (The notable exception to this rule is Zelda: Twilight Princess, which was fantastic on the Wii, even though it started development as a Gamecube title.)
You can't blame Nintendo for lazy third-party development. There are enough games that use the motion-sensitive controls and sensor bar (for on-screen tracking) with great results.
Also, games like Super Smash Bros. Brawl do offer control schemes without the waggle. In SSBB, you can play four different ways: with Wii Remote only, with Wii Remote and Nunchuck, with Gamecube Controller, and with Classic Controller. You can spend all your time playing SSBB (which, by the way, has terrific graphics) without even a single waggle.
And I still have plenty of love for quality titles that use a gamepad. I'm currently playing through a JRPG on my PS2 and thoroughly enjoying it. Not every game calls for motion controls on on-screen tracking--but it's nice to have that option.
Before you write off the Wii's controls in regards to first-person shooters, play Metroid Prime 3: Corruption first. It's exactly what I expected a FPS on the Wii to be--and that's a very, very good thing.
True, but the assumption that hardcore gamers buy the 360 or PS3 and only casual gamers buy the Wii is oversimplifying the situation.
There's a respectable amount of gamers who grew up with the original NES or SNES systems, are 25 or older, have or are planning to have children soon, and want to play games with their kids. Many of them also want quality M-rated titles (like Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles) to play by themselves or with their spouse after the kids go to bed.
The majority of Wii owners probably are casual gamers, but that doesn't mean developers should dismiss the console as a "fad" or a "casual gamer console."
Probably not, but Nintendo is going to lose customers to Microsoft because their online features pale in comparison to Xbox Live--and Nintendo has not shown a reasonable effort to improve those features in the last year and a half.
Xbox Live (with Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo HD, REZ HD, and Mr. Driller Online) and a few favorite regular titles (Beautiful Katamari, SoulCalibur IV, Guitar Hero III, and Rock Band) are the main reasons I'm considering purchasing a Xbox 360.
Unfortunately, the point is moot, since I can't justify dropping over $500 (when you add in extra controllers and a title or two) on a new game system when I already have so much to play on my PS2, DS, and Wii.
Still, Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo in HD and online? Man, that's hard to pass up.
BassMan449
Moderator
The controls on the Wii are very well designed in some games and very poorly implemented in others. The problem comes when developers are using the motion sensing strictly for the sake of motion sensing and not using it the way it would be intuitive.
Anyone here played Mario Strikers: Charged? The only motion it uses is to land a big hit and it works extremely well. You play with buttons just like you normally would, but to hit somebody you jerk the wiimote. If used properly the Wiimote can simply use the motion as the equivalent of a button press, but in some games that simplifies the controls and makes it easier to learn.
I also agree with Tek that Nintendo will lose customers to M$ simply because of the quality of Xbox Live. I have an original Xbox and had Live for a long time and it is vastly superior to any of the other online systems. It is generally better than most PC game's systems in my opinion.
If Nintendo doesn't improve their online system drastically that will lose them many gamers. Most of the lost gamers will probably be the hardcore gamers, but they will also probably lose some that play more fun. While I know Nintendo has focused on the average gamer and not the hardcore gamers, the Wii still has appeal to us to. I've been a hardcore gamer for a long time and I still love the Wii, but I plan on getting a 360 because of the obvious superiority of Xbox Live.
Now about the copying ... It was obvious it was going to happen. Copying is what drives innovation. Some one invents something good. Someone else makes it better. Original company has to further improve or die. That is the nature of competition and the reason it is good. I'm glad Microsoft and Sony are attempting to copy the Wii's controls. Sony did a crappy job, but hopefully since M$ is taking longer for development they can do it better. But what will come of this is that they will force Nintendo to improve the controls to stay ahead.
Anyone here played Mario Strikers: Charged? The only motion it uses is to land a big hit and it works extremely well. You play with buttons just like you normally would, but to hit somebody you jerk the wiimote. If used properly the Wiimote can simply use the motion as the equivalent of a button press, but in some games that simplifies the controls and makes it easier to learn.
I also agree with Tek that Nintendo will lose customers to M$ simply because of the quality of Xbox Live. I have an original Xbox and had Live for a long time and it is vastly superior to any of the other online systems. It is generally better than most PC game's systems in my opinion.
If Nintendo doesn't improve their online system drastically that will lose them many gamers. Most of the lost gamers will probably be the hardcore gamers, but they will also probably lose some that play more fun. While I know Nintendo has focused on the average gamer and not the hardcore gamers, the Wii still has appeal to us to. I've been a hardcore gamer for a long time and I still love the Wii, but I plan on getting a 360 because of the obvious superiority of Xbox Live.
Now about the copying ... It was obvious it was going to happen. Copying is what drives innovation. Some one invents something good. Someone else makes it better. Original company has to further improve or die. That is the nature of competition and the reason it is good. I'm glad Microsoft and Sony are attempting to copy the Wii's controls. Sony did a crappy job, but hopefully since M$ is taking longer for development they can do it better. But what will come of this is that they will force Nintendo to improve the controls to stay ahead.
blackgravity
New Member
I just don't see online capabilities losing Nintendo customers. They've already come out to say "any online functions we have will be family friendly" i.e. your kids aren't going to EVER be able to play with people they don't know, and that is a GOOD thing to me.
Odale
Active Member
We all know that CD's and now DVD's are superior to cartridges, but back in the day, the N64 games were often superior to the Sony PS games. Can you think of a game that can even rival Golden Eye or Perfect Dark? Or how about Turok, Harvest Moon and other unique games.However, the 3rd party developers jumped ship on their own though because Nintendo unwisely stuck with the cartridge format producing the inferior N64 while Sony had the CD based Playstation. For example Square went to the Playstation before Sony's "controller upgrade" occurred and with the FMV of Final Fantasy 7 they could not have done otherwise (I know because I followed Square over from the N64 to play it
I found the N64's controller to be the most comfortable controller I have ever held. The first Xbox's controller was by far the worst, then comes Sony's uneventful controllers... at least Nintendo has had the guts to change it up, and even microsoft has changed their controllers a bit. Come on Sony. Thats like 13 years of using the same controller. All they have done is added analog sticks, rumble features and made it wireless. Have you ever held a Wiimote and it's nun chuck? They are very comfortable.Quite frankly compared to Microsoft's and Nintendo's current controllers Sony's seems like the best one ergonomically and design wise and it should be... since they "borrowed" the best elements from elsewhere to make it
Nintendo has stated before (can't remember when or where they said it... =(. ) that they are not competing with Sony and Microsoft. Their target audience is different. That doesn't seem to matter though, since for months the Wii sales have been infinitely higher than the 360's or the PS3. Only now have the 360 and the PS3 caught up to the Wii because they offer better* games.
* Better is a relevant term.
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