map rotation

[exodus]

noticed last night that the server was running some non-standard maps, and every time one would load one, we would lose 4 or 5 people. I'm assuming because they didn't want to wait for the download.

in the interest of making our server more of a destination, does it make sense to have a 4 or 5 standard map rotation of some of the more popular maps? pipeline & goldrush always seem to fill up the server pretty fast (just to name a couple).

i personally don't mind new maps, but more players > great map diversity.

 

[Bakey]

I agree with this. I'd say let's save the custom maps for our Thursday night get-together and keep the actual map rotation on the server as stock as possible. I'd love to see our server full the majority of the time.

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

I ran a stock map selection over the weekend with no customs as a test (pl maps, pipeline and dustbowl). It might have helped a little bit but it didn't keep the server full all the time. I've switched off that now as it was requested that some of the sta maps be added to the rotation until we play them. It's currently...

pl_badwater
cp_gravelpit
pl_swift_final
cp_dustbowl
plr_pipeline
cp_stag
pl_goldrush
cp_broma

Quite frankly I find playing the same maps over and over again a bit boring too. My plan is to keep most popular maps in but throw in a couple customs that have been tested and liked.

 

[Hescominsoon]

you need to take all the maps running on the server and put them on the toj site as a fast http download using bzip(which tf2 supports, make sure to read the reidrect documentation on exactly how you ahve to set it up)). Then downloads zing along..

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

you need to take all the maps running on the server and put them on the toj site as a fast http download using bzip(which tf2 supports, make sure to read the reidrect documentation on exactly how you ahve to set it up)). Then downloads zing along..

All the maps are on the redirect already but people don't want to even wait that long :/ .

 

[Bakey]

Quite frankly I find playing the same maps over and over again a bit boring too. My plan is to keep most popular maps in but throw in a couple customs that have been tested and liked.

Just to present the other side of the argument here, I find playing with half full server on a custom map more boring than playing on a full server with an oldie-but-goodie like goldrush or dustbowl.

This brings up something I'd LOVE to see happen, but I don't know if we can afford it: a "standard rotation" pub server and a private server for practices, matches, and custom map stuff.

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Just to present the other side of the argument here, I find playing with half full server on a custom map more boring than playing on a full server with an oldie-but-goodie like goldrush or dustbowl.

Full servers are always better but I tried running only popular official maps and it didn't keep the server full. People do seem to come to the server more if it has a few people AND it is a popular map but if the server is empty it didn't bring them in. I'll keep the customs in the minority don't worry.

 

[Tek7]

Quite frankly I find playing the same maps over and over again a bit boring too.

/agree

pl_goldrush and pl_badwater are great maps, but they're getting pretty stale.

Besides, there are map packs available for download, so players have no excuse.

Downloading and extracting map pack to TF2 folders > waiting to download from the server redirect

All chapter members and regulars should download and install the map packs linked in the thread referenced above as soon as possible, if they haven't already.

 

[Bakey]

/agree

pl_goldrush and pl_badwater are great maps, but they're getting pretty stale.

Besides, there are map packs available for download, so players have no excuse.

Downloading and extracting map pack to TF2 folders > waiting to download from the server redirect

All chapter members and regulars should download and install the map packs linked in the thread referenced above as soon as possible, if they haven't already.

This doesn't help random pubbers though. It's nice to have new people in the server and the possibility of keeping someone around long enough to recruit them goes down severely if they can't stay in the server more than 1 map at a time because we run a bunch of customs.

So that brings up this question: what's this server for? Is it for existing ToJ members to play on, or is it intended to be an outreach tool? If the former, great. Run all the custom maps you want.

If the latter, then we need to really reconsider the amount of custom maps in the default rotation.

 

[Tek7]

So that brings up this question: what's this server for? Is it for existing ToJ members to play on, or is it intended to be an outreach tool?

I would say it's both.

And remember that we have several regulars who aren't members. I would expect those regulars to visit the forums and download the map packs since the files are publicly available.

I <3 quality custom maps, so I think we should keep both stock and custom maps in rotation, but stack the stock maps together. That way, random pubbers can hop into a game of pl_goldrush, stick around for cp_dustbowl and ctf_turbine, then regulars and members can stay on when the rotation enters the custom map portion.

 

[Bakey]

So a 2-1 ratio? 2 Stock maps in a row then 1 custom?

 

[Tek7]

So a 2-1 ratio? 2 Stock maps in a row then 1 custom?

It's up to Gerbil and Annath, but that sounds like a fair compromise to me.

 

[slalomdms]

I do think having more stock maps will bring a few more people, I don't think that is the main reason why our server isn't as popular destination compared to most. Besides a custom map every once and awhile is a nice break.

I think the main reason is going back to not having anyone on the server to get a game started. Whenever I search for a server to join i don't search for servers with 0 people on it. I only join servers with 5+ people on them. I think this is the main reason we are not getting people to join because one of the options when searching for servers is to not show the ones with 0 ppl on them.

I think a 2:1 or even 3:1 ratio of stock maps to custom maps would be a good idea. Oh and sorry I haven't been around lately been really busy.

 

[Hescominsoon]

when gfc ran a fully custom maps server once gfc came on..it got jammed..nearly every single time.

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Fish runs both a custom server and a stock server. I don't know the numbers but the custom server certainly does get people on it (and Fish is much less discriminating in the quality of customs they put on). While I do believe running only certain stock maps would increase our server use the results where negligible when I tested it. Also...

1. You must run only certain stock maps if you want the most people. Some people hate Steel, Well (because of the trains) and are bored with older maps (If I remember right people left last time I ran Gravelpit). At least I hear groans from some people and see others leave sometimes. Basically you are left with a very small set of maps to run if your goal is server traffic only. If we do run customs on a ratio you are going to have very little maps on the server and even less customs on the server. There are currently 3 customs (one of those is only there because it's for STA) and 5 official on the server.

2. Our server does have a vote enabled that comes up so if people don't like the next map they can change it. However the voting system only picks choices from the rotation so they must be in it to start with.

3. Having the server packed without an admin around is something of a catch 22. This could actually discourage the people we want from frequenting out server in the long run if they join it only to find grievers on it. I've been seeing less than savory people on our server when it is admin empty.

4. Many servers use false player counts to get people in. Looking at the server browser does not give a true impression of other servers popularity. This is a tactic I will certainly not employ on our server.

5. When I took this job I took it to help Toj first but I had a second alternate reason I mentioned when I did. I wanted access to put my custom maps on the server for testing. I know this may sound purely selfish but it isn't. If my maps turn out good it has the potential to bring in more people to Toj as they plainly have toj signatures in them (they plainly show Christian references too). Possibly other servers may even run them if people come to our server and like them. It's down the road a bit but both me and Annath have maps we would like to test on the server at some point. Sure I won't put them in the rotation to start with but if they are good yes I would like to add them at some point. Good custom maps you can't get anywhere else have the potential to be a good draw.

6. I realize some people won't wait the couple minutes to play a custom but some people do like them. I think some of you guys may only be thinking custom maps "bad ugh". When I am on a another server and there is a map vote I will always pick a map I have never played over a map I have. People like me may be in the minority but then I am going to keep the customs in the minority too.

7. If you guys want I can put all the customs in a bunch, it's ok with me, but my logic was to alternate them with popular maps. If both Badwater and Goldrush bring people in you aren't going to get maximum benefit from the second map once the server is full. If you do lose a couple people on customs you'll need a draw to get people back in after words. I don't think it's the quality of the customs that make people leave as much as any download time.

8. People tend to quit at the end of any map or at a certain time of night. The dislike of customs may be exaggerated by this if not taken into account. I know a lot of our game nights only run certain lengths due purely to time constraints not becuase a map made people leave.

9. When I am browsing for a server to join I look for ping then people. Spying with only a few people is difficult. I don't look at the map except to avoid achievement servers, arena and customs I know are bad (like buggy bad).

 

[Hescominsoon]

most folks don't look for ping first when casually gaming. I rant he gfc server form my house and we had folks form germany and the west coast on regularly.

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

most folks don't look for ping first when casually gaming. I rant he gfc server form my house and we had folks form germany and the west coast on regularly.

Probably true I was just saying what I did to find a server. Once I get over 200 my performance suffers and my internet is not the best. Been having bizarre lag lately too the ping shows great 30~ but deaths have a noticeable delay to register like it does when it's 200.

 

[Bakey]

most folks don't look for ping first when casually gaming. I rant he gfc server form my house and we had folks form germany and the west coast on regularly.

Given the choice of 2 servers with the same number of people in them and the same map, the lower ping one will always get the vote.

Ping does matter, bottom line.

 

[Hescominsoon]

bottom line..from a multi-year admin And player..in non-competitive the quality of the people and the map rotation means the most..then ping..bottom line...

competitive it's ping first..

 

[Bakey]

bottom line..from a multi-year admin And player..in non-competitive the quality of the people and the map rotation means the most..then ping..bottom line...

competitive it's ping first..

Then you've been playing games where good pings don't matter. As a multi-year admin and multi year player where pings DO matter (UT and Quake series), pings are the MOST important thing about a server.