Of Angels and Ancient gods

LionOfJudah

LionOfJudah

Member, Dreamcast Fishing Guru
I am about to start writing my term paper here at school on how ancient panthyon of gods could of been and was most likely influence by a demonic force of some sort. I mean come on why would God have to overcome the gods of egypt if they didnt exist. just a thought. should be an intresting paper.

What are your guys thoughts?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (LionOfJudah @ Oct. 29 2003,11:22)]I am about to start writing my term paper here at school on how ancient panthyon of gods could of been and was most likely influence by a demonic force of some sort. I mean come on why would God have to overcome the gods of egypt if they didnt exist. just a thought. should be an intresting paper.

What are your guys thoughts?
Click to expand...
Dear Lion,

Demons? Where will you go to research Demons?

However, there has already been a lot of scholarly work which shows the Ancient Gods and Mythological Beings to be Archetypes of certain Psychological Complexes and Attitudes. It would be easier to show that the Ancient Gods and Such Like were Quintessentially Human -- that would be demonic enough.

Also, this Demonic angle would hit a wall here and there. Not all of the Ancient Gods and Mythological Beings were Demonic -- using Christ's Criteria of discerning whether they are productive of Bad Fruit and predatory Wolves in Sheep's Clothing. For Instance , some of the Egyptian Gods were modeled on Joseph Son of Jacob. Diana the Huntress was a Virgin. Hercules was a Hero who conquered the Lower Vital Forces.

Also, when you look at Catholic Mystical Thought -- there is a certain amount of Data that gets collected. There are Demons -- plenty of them. But there are also Earth Spirits. Earth Spirits are largely morally neutral -- like Cows or Horses or Dophins -- they are in the Spirit World but stay out of the fight between the Angels and the Demons.

Have you ever read Carl Jung?
 
any being try to take credit away from God, is counted as a demon to me. for the purpose of this paper
 
Is this for a Christian school? Otherwise, the entire idea is absurd, because first you hav to prove that your God exists. Of course, if it *is* a Christian school, then gl with that =D
 
my school owns

i can write about anything i want
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Of course you can write about anything you want, but your thesis would be very hard to prove without first proving the premise (Christianity = true).
 
LOJ,

Could it be that the Gods of Egypt were a concept only in the minds of those who believed in them? Thus, conquoring them, or over coming them, was not a physical thing, more of a showing the people of Egypt how the Gods they worshiped did not exist.

The concept of "if your God would show himself, I would believe you," is not an athiest concept at all. Actually, it was Gods idea first. Take a look at the plaques that befell Egypt. Each of the plaques the Egyptians had a God that supposedly had dominion over. Ultimatly in the end, even Ra, the God Egyptian God of the underworld, or death, was shown to be false as he could not bring back the son of Pharoh. The biblical record is full of themes were God basically issues challanges to all the other so called Gods. Not one ever even bothered to show up in the Arena, nevermind answer the challange.
 
I thought Ra was the sun god...but anyways i think that the false gods of the many false religons are merely demons that are using deceit to persuade humans to fall into traps of idolotry...

Cave Troll
 
hmmm, obviously I don't know much about Egyptian mythology. Not a problem.

Then either it was Osiris, the ruler of the underworld or Anubis, Guardian of the dead. The problem with Egyptian mythology is that all the Gods were constantly changing.
 
The topic of ancient gods being demons and such have always fascinated me, and my mind runs wild with ideas on it.

First thing, let's just say (for the sake of my idea) that ancient gods were based off of demonic influences, and even demons themselves (thought on that being Satan and his angels wanted to be above God, so of course they'd look for people to worship them, would they not?).

Now, with that established, there comes the question of HOW MUCH influence they could have had? Possibly enough to allow them the knowledge of building fantabulous buildings, such as pyramids? Maybe this would explain the similarities between the Central American ziggurats and temples and the Egyptian pyramids. Or maybe it would explain WHY the ancient peoples, Native Americans, Egyptians, Greeks and the like all had so many gods, some very similar.

According to modern historians and people knowledgable on the Egyptians say that those blocks were seemingly laser-cut, amazingly enough. Could the demons have assisted the Egyptians by giving them some technology of sorts to help them with this? Even today, it is still in dispute of how they even MOVED those huge blocks. Sure, slaves tugging away at it with ropes sounds interesting and viable enough, but who really knows?

Just a fun idea to play around with.

Van


PS Leo- Doesn't the Catholic church have a record of "known demons" ? Or is this Hollywood fiction?
 
Here's another interesting thing spoken of in the bible:

Genesis 6 : 4

NIV "The Nephilim were on the earth in those days-and also afterward-when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."

NLT "In those days, and even afterward, giants lived on the earth, for whenever the sons of God had intercourse with human women, they gave birth to children who became the heroes mentioned in legends of old"

Cont "The children of the supernatural beings who had married these women became famous heroes and warriors. They were called Nephilim and lived on the earth at that time and even later."

Literal Translation "The fallen ones were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when sons of God come in unto daughters of men, and they have borne to them -- they [are] the heroes, who, from of old, [are] the men of name."

Many people consider the 'the fallen ones' or 'the supernatural beings' or 'the sons of God' to be the fallen angels of Satan. Although we do not know exactly what happened during pre-flood times, it is believed by some that demons were on the earth and actually interacted with people, producing a kind of warped offspring.

If this is the truth, then it is an interesting example of demon interaction with people other than possession or fortune telling.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (LionOfJudah @ Oct. 30 2003,6:53)]any being try to take credit away from God, is counted as a demon to me. for the purpose of this paper
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Dear Lion,

You'll have to email me your paper.

"Any entity that takes credit away from God is a demon." Where do you get that? That could define Christ. It certainly defines Paul. All the Angels are in violation.

You see, the problem with your "take credit" notion is that it is indistinguishable from the exercise of any personal moral discretion. The only Entity that would be Guiltless in your eyes is God Himself. But, guess what, God the Creator, is Above His Creation -- He does not do anything directly. The Providence of God is through the agency of the Angels. And their Obedience is very discretionary -- that is, God tells them What He wants and the Angels figure out on their own the How.

So what REALLY separates the Angels from the Demons? It doesn't take any thought. Oral Tradition tells us clearly -- the Fallen Angels were guilty of Pride and Disobedience. It wasn't a matter of whether or not they were exercising Free Will and taking Credit for their own Discreet Actions -- both the good and the bad have free will and may take credit for their own actions. It is the orientation of the Service. Is the Service done in Obedience to God or as a Self-Service?

You can see the Arch Angel Michael as a Good Example. He is largely known as the Commander of the Avenging Angels. All the Plagues under which Mankind has suffered are the work of Michael and His Host of Angels. When Christ was Crucified, it so enraged Michael that He tore the Veil of the Temple and was about to Destroy all of Jerusalem -- all on His own Personal Discretion. But Christ came to him and asked, as a favor, that He desist -- that Jerusalem would be destroyed, but shouldn't be destroyed just yet. Michael obeyed. So, what is it we see here. We see that God does indeed give us all Free Will. Even the Angels can operate within a wide latitude of general behavior that God still considers within the Bounds of Obedience. So, what is Obedience? Service to the Community of Obedience. What is disobedience? Self-Aggrandizement is disobedience. You always have to refer to Satan in order to discern what is, and what isn't Sin.

So, anyway, your making Demonism a matter of 'taking credit" is creative and original, but God wouldn't agree with you. If you serve the Community -- If you can be a Good Servant and bring the Lord a Hundred Fold -- then you can not only Take Credit, but you will be rewarded. Read the Parables!

Honestly -- start your paper, and you will certainly find yourself confronted with the difficulties I have described. You know, everyone already knows what Demons are. Maybe you should research what everyone knows already -- catch up to the State of the Art before you attempt to add to it. It took me fifty years before I allowed myself an original thought -- and that was after a significant amount of both scholastic and religious dues paying.

But it will interesting to see how your paper is received. A good Professor would slap you silly for it -- no good scholar should ever be totally disdainful of all thought that has gone before him -- it shows laziness or willful stupidity. But I am puzzled how Protestant Colleges have ever been able to do business, since The Truth patently in the Gospels and what they teach in the Bible Colleges are two different things. So maybe they reward thinking that defies the Gospels. "Here is a Kid that will propagate the Party Line", and they give you a B+ on a paper that they know you just pulled out of your ass. I'm interested. Let me know how it goes.
 
Malohaut,

Would that mean that the fallen angels, or angels in general and satan are sexual creations capable of depositing seed that is somehow remotely compatable with human?

I suppose, in some sick way, they possibly could twist their beings into being so.

Genesis 6 : 4

NIV "The Nephilim were on the earth in those days-and also afterward-when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."

The only way I can possibly reconcile this passage with my limited brain is:

The Nephilim: Not human
Sons of God: Seed of Adam
Daughters of Men: The other males and females that were created in Genesis 1.
 
Lion, good luck on your paper. Make sure to post it! I won't criticize it, I just love to read essays and the like. If you don't want to post it, be sure and PM it to me. Anyways, I think you have an interesting idea.

Depending on what level of English you are in, it may be difficult to score highly on this paper. Make sure you back up everything that you propose, and use persuasive technique.

Check this out, it is not in anyway related to Atheism (I promise). It is actually just some advice I wrote on persuasive writing. You might benefit from it.
http://infidelguy.com/modules....b1f50c2

Anyways, if you need help writing your essay, I will gladly give you any assistance I can.
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well as far as english grammar goes i suck, now writing is a different story, because usually the way i write my term papers is the way i would deliver them in a speech, which is sometime i have been told that i can do well. i will be sure to post it once its done and i am happy with it.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Gods_Peon @ Oct. 31 2003,11:14)]Genesis 6 : 4

NIV "The Nephilim were on the earth in those days-and also afterward-when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."

The only way I can possibly reconcile this passage with my limited brain is:

The Nephilim:  Not human
Sons of God: Seed of Adam
Daughters of Men: The other males and females that were created in Genesis 1.
Click to expand...
I have to ask (in a nice way)...how did the seed of Adam (by which I assume you mean Adam's children) become the "Sons of God?" I mean, everyone was descended from Adam, unless I really misunderstood Genesis.

As for the "Daughters of men" including males...that would make no sense. "mankind" includes women, but "womankind" excludes men.

(as another example, "men of renown" could include women, no argument.)
 
Genesis 1:27. First God created man (singular). Adam? No mention at the beginning of verse 27 of female until the end. Then God created them (plural) male and female.

Adams line (or seed) is not the same as the others.

Genesis 4:14 Cain whines that he has become a wonderer in the Earth and who ever finds him will kill him. Who is the "who ever" in his lamentations?

Cain found a wife? Who was that, where did she come from? He built cities? For who, and where did they come from?

Adam and Eve did not only have Cain, Abel and Seth, they had many other sons and daughters.

The way I see it, the sons Adam and Eve had were the Sons of God. And the daughters of Men are the daughters of the others.


--
Note:

Although I could be completely wrong in how I understand it, it is a matter that does not affect my faith or how I live.
 
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