Politically active Christians

D

Didasko

Member
Over the last few months I have had some discussions with some Christian friends about whether or not Christians should be actively involved in politics. For example, actively speaking out against gay marriage, taking part in prolife marches, demanding moral accountability from politicians, etc.

Many of them hold the belief that being politically active is detrimental to our cause. It perpetuates the 'fundamentalist' attitude that many non-Christians have toward us. They argue that Christ was not politically active. He never took on the Romans politically.

This surprised me. Some of these fellow Christians are deacons and one was one of the associate pastors at my local church. I go to a very conservative church.

My view is that America is going through the problems it is going through today (the gay marriage issue, abortion, disgusting movies...music...games...etc, an out of control education system, high divorce rate, it goes on and on...) because Christians have been standing on the sidelines for too long.

I believe that Jesus was very politically active. The Romans were in charge and had the final say on anything they wanted to be involved in...but who really ran the day-to-day business and set the moral laws of the day for the Jews? It was not the Romans. It was the Pharisees and Sadducees. Jesus often condemned them and publicly spoke out against them and their practices.

What do you think?
 
My personal view is this: the world is going to hell in a handbasket, so let it. I don't care if gay marriage is accepted, or if the government conforms to Judeo-Christian morality. If people wish to be fools and hedonists, let them. They will have a heck of a lot to answer for in the end.
 
Didasko said:
My view is that America is going through the problems it is going through today (the gay marriage issue, abortion, disgusting movies...music...games...etc, an out of control education system, high divorce rate, it goes on and on...) because Christians have been standing on the sidelines for too long.

I believe that Jesus was very politically active. The Romans were in charge and had the final say on anything they wanted to be involved in...but who really ran the day-to-day business and set the moral laws of the day for the Jews? It was not the Romans. It was the Pharisees and Sadducees. Jesus often condemned them and publicly spoke out against them and their practices.
Click to expand...

I agree with you 100%. Religion and politics were strange bedfellows, nevertheless, they were united in Jesus day. He spoke out against that which was wrong, even signaling out lawyers!

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

I think yet another problem is that our priorities are confused. I know of many Christians that did not vote Bush because of his stand on social security and other financial issues. Sadly, we have come to the place where we would rather worry about dollars, than simply depending on God to supply our need, and find it easier to sit back and do nothing. If Christians were politically active, perhaps we would have more than one choice of an elected official regarding moral issues.

Max, you are our future generation, to not speak out against these things is simply another way of accepting them.
 
i've often wondered why its bad to be called a fundamentalist? What greater purpose then lead people to christ, that is the fundamental of our religion.... and the fundamental of my social belief revolve around the bible, so Im most likely a hardcore fundamentalist.. why would that be bad? Of course my views and opinions often get me in trouble in the public environment, depending on my audience....
 
Careful MaxX

The Great Commission,

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." Matthew 28:18-20

The second most important commandment,

"The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these." Mark 12:31

Nothing there that says just let them burn :)



phasetim

There is nothing wrong with being a Christian fundamentalist. But our enemies lump 'Christian fundamentalists' right there with 'islamic fundamentalists' and try to make us out to be a bunch of crazy's :mad:

We're not supposed to be accepted by the world though :)

"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as it's own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you." John 15:18-19



hescominsoon

I agree with alot of what is written in that link you posted. Bush is also terrible with fiscal policy, he's growing the government instead of shrinking it, and his No Child Left Behind Act is ludacrous. However, I did vote for him! The alternative was so much worse than he is that I felt compelled to vote for him. With 2 or 3 Supreme Court Justices coming up for retirement soon, I didn't feel it was time for me to make a protest vote. Which is all it would have been to vote for a thrid party candidate (although there were several third party candidates that would have been better).

The one thing I think he is doing well is the war on terror (ack...am I going to get flamed for that?) :D And I like the way he is not giving in to our allies...or are they?...in Europe.
 
:shrug: You can speak against it, without trying to make it illegal. I don't think there will, or should be a God-based government until He actually returns. Those who hear the Truth and accept it will, those who won't won't. You can't shove it down their throats, that's not the way God works (at least currently), so that's not the way we should.
 
WOW!

While I agree with you to an extent, what you say is kinda scary. Some things must be against the law...especially if it is not a Christian society (and it's definitely not in the U.S. anymore). For a short list:

Murder
Rape
Assault
Robbery
Drunk Driving
Reckless Driving
Theft
etc...

I agree that we should not make laws that force someone to follow our whole belief system, but whether you want to admit it or not, this nation was founded on Christian principles. The founding fathers, almost exclusively, were Christians. The system of laws in this country from the beginning were bases on biblical teaching for the most part. We have moved away from that in recent decades.

Now it is us Christians who are having the enemies beliefs and laws forced on us. I am not talking about wanting a Christian society where if your not Christian you get put in prison...that is abviously not biblical. What I want is a country where my children can be free of certian disgusting and dangerous things.

From the way you have reponded I get the feeling that homosexuality may be the thing your talking about making illegal or not. If that is the case, you need to remember that it was illegal everywhere in the U.S. until not too long ago. It has been forced on us in recent decades. I don't like to have to try to shield my childrens eyes when we walk by gays embracing or kissing in public (heterosexuals sometimes go too far in public as well). Lude behavior from anyone in public used to be addressed. Now what is lude and what is not has been confused.

Abortion as a form of birth control is out right murder. Murder of a born person is illegal, so why not an unborn? Trying to stop abortion for personal convenience in a society gone mad is not 'shoving our religion down their throat'.

Public schools where the left wing agenda of the enemy is taught and encouraged is 'shoving their beliefs down my throat'. I recently pulled my three children out of public school and my wife and I are homeschooling. Two of my children were going to the school that I teach at. I see it first hand. We have let them 'shove their beliefs down our throats' for so long we have forgotten what we had and how to fight for it.

I could go on for pages but I'll end my rant here :eek:

If we just sit back and let it all go, we'll end up in a very scary place.
 
Christianity is not a sub-culture nor is it an anti-culture to society. It is a counter-culture. We are called to live according to Gods righteousness and this world will go to hell in a handbasket until Jesus returns. We can stand up and say "Hey, there is a better way." But don't expect to be heeded. We can lobby our politicians, but don't expect laws to be written the way we want them to be.

Jesus will return and setup his Kingdom (not democracy) and reign over the entire world. There will be no more gay marriage, no more easy divorce, no more out of control educational system. All theses issues and more will be governed as our Lord intended them to be.

It is better to be labelled a fundamentalist Christian by those who have no power over me then to be denied by Jesus. Do what the Lord has pressed onto your heart, whether that be standing up against gay marriage or helping out at the soup kitchen and work in your position with high regard of the Father in heavan and trust upon his name and son and what could possibly go wrong?
 
I'm not quiet ready to give up and believe that we cannot change things in our society. If we decided to speak out more often and more forcefully as a group, then Christians could change the laws and society in general. However, if we continue to be complacent much longer we will be so badly outnumbered in our society that real persecution will begin. Over the last couple of generations our rights as Christians have been seriously eroded. There is no longer a place for us in 'politically correct' society. We have given up our rightful place in a country that was Christian from the beginning.

None of us believe we can make a perfect Christian society, it would be foolish to believe that, and it's very unbiblical. But, should we sit back and let it get more and more anti-Christian without trying to slow the snowball down?

God does much of his work through us. We have to be willing to do his work. I am not suggesting that we all pull out signs and storm Washington D.C. in a protest. What I am suggesting is that all Christians take a good hard look at what is going on in the world and our own countries.

Our vote may not count for much alone, but if we all voted more in line with what God wants for us, the vote would most assuredly count. Many people are very selfish with their voting. They tend to vote for the candidate that will do the most for them personally, not for the candidate that is best for the nation.
 
Didasko said:
From the way you have reponded I get the feeling that homosexuality may be the thing your talking about making illegal or not. If that is the case, you need to remember that it was illegal everywhere in the U.S. until not too long ago. It has been forced on us in recent decades. I don't like to have to try to shield my childrens eyes when we walk by gays embracing or kissing in public (heterosexuals sometimes go too far in public as well). Lude behavior from anyone in public used to be addressed. Now what is lude and what is not has been confused.
Click to expand...

Perversion-even in public-has always existed. Only in the last few hundred years was the law stronly influenced by Judeo-Christian principles. This does not mean it is an actual theocracy, it just means the people in power have Judeo-Christian ideology. There were many societies in the past that allowed homosexuality to be practices freely, a few allowed and even encouraged greater sexual perversions such as pedophilia. If you are concerned about your children seeing it, remember this is a world much like Sodom, and children raised in this society are going to have to learn about it and deal with it sooner or later.

Abortion as a form of birth control is out right murder. Murder of a born person is illegal, so why not an unborn? Trying to stop abortion for personal convenience in a society gone mad is not 'shoving our religion down their throat'.
Click to expand...

This I agree with, simply because "abortion being murder" it is not only religious and moral statement, it can be argued purely logically that it is murder.

Public schools where the left wing agenda of the enemy is taught and encouraged is 'shoving their beliefs down my throat'. I recently pulled my three children out of public school and my wife and I are homeschooling. Two of my children were going to the school that I teach at. I see it first hand. We have let them 'shove their beliefs down our throats' for so long we have forgotten what we had and how to fight for it.
Click to expand...

This is the best solution. I was homeschooled, and I am very grateful for it; I can see the world much clearer than a lot of my brainwashed public school friends can. But fighting for a more balanced curriculum in schools is not a purely Christian agenda, many people from other faiths (or none at all) are sick of the crap spewed by our education system.

If we just sit back and let it all go, we'll end up in a very scary place.
Click to expand...

The phrase "end times" comes to mind.
 
MaxX said:
Perversion-even in public-has always existed. Only in the last few hundred years was the law stronly influenced by Judeo-Christian principles. This does not mean it is an actual theocracy, it just means the people in power have Judeo-Christian ideology. There were many societies in the past that allowed homosexuality to be practices freely, a few allowed and even encouraged greater sexual perversions such as pedophilia. If you are concerned about your children seeing it, remember this is a world much like Sodom, and children raised in this society are going to have to learn about it and deal with it sooner or later.
Click to expand...

Yes perversion has always existed. Many of these societies you speak of, such as, the Greek empire, the Roman Empire, and many others had a marked increase in perversion just before their collapse. They always had it, but it increased greatly toward the end.

That is what is happening to America today. We are seeing the collapse of the moral structure that held this country together from the beginning. I see nothing wrong with trying to slow the process...We'll never get to where we want to be, that won't happen until the return of Christ. But I am not a pacifist. I believe in fighting for what is right and trying to make the world a better place.

I don't understand the philosophy of just letting the world burn...it's unbiblical. We as Christians have a moral obligation to stand up for what is right and to condemn what is wrong.

...and yes I agree that my children will have to see it. I do teach them to deal with it. But I do not teach them to give in or just let it be. I don't mind being at the front of the battle. That is where Christian adults are called to be, but there is nothing wrong with trying to protect our children from perversion. Common since dictates that the more we see something the more we grow to accept it, or become used to it.
 
The question that needs to be asked is, why are you fighting? The answer "just because it's right" doesn't cut it for me. When evangelizing to non-christians, the point is to save their souls from perdition, but what is the point of trying to slow a society that will inevitably burn? We were commisioned to preach and spread the Truth, not try to enstate laws that prevent sin. If the majority of people are moral and righteous, the government and administration will naturally follow. The same is true for the opposite case, so I believe the answer is not to fight politically (from a religious standpoint), but fight spiritually.
 
I agree with you that we are fighting a spiritual battle MaxX, and part of that spiritual battle is to not let the enemy make us complacent and accepting of his agenda. What we see happening in our society is a result of many 'Christians' becoming complacent and refusing to fight for what God says is right. It's not 'just because it's right' it's 'because God says it's right'.

I think we may be misunderstanding eachother a bit here. I am not arguing that we should make a list of laws a mile long that every citizen should follow, but there are some laws that we need for our own protection.

You have already agreed with me on abortion as a form of birth control being murder. That is at the top of my political agenda. There are probably more laws that I would like to do away with than there are laws I would like to add.

Getting back to the constitution and putting the federal government back in a box where it belongs is another top priority. The feds are out of control. They tell us what and who we must accept. They tell us who we have to hire or let into our schools. They dictate what we have to teach and what we cannot teach in our schools. They are taking our rights away by giving rights to others that infringe on ours.

The battles going on in our schools, offices, playgrounds, families, churches, government, etc. are ALL a part of the spiritual battle we face daily. Don't just fight it on one front. Stand firm on all fronts!
 
Last edited:
Didasko said:
I agree with you that we are fighting a spiritual battle MaxX, and part of that spiritual battle is to not let the enemy make us complacent and accepting of his agenda. What we see happening in our society is a result of many 'Christians' becoming complacent and refusing to fight for what God says is right. It's not 'just because it's right' it's 'because God says it's right'.
Click to expand...

Yes, but remember this world belongs to Satan. You don't have to accept his agenda, but you may have to live with the results of it for a short time. Nowhere in the Epistles did Paul or the other apostles tell the church to take up proverbial arms and fight on the political front. A good modern day example of this is the persecuted church in Soviet Russia (past tense), China, Islamic extremist countries, etc.. They aren't fighting for Christian moral standards in the law, they are fighting to save people's souls. There is something to be said for the American way of democracy of course, but I think pretty soon that will be a null point (democracy is already being made a joke of in this country).
 
That is exactly my point. Democracy is being made a joke here in the U.S. There is a huge difference between the other countries you listed and the United States. In those countries (as in Israel during Christ's time there) the civil governments punished people for trying to make change. In the U.S. people are invited to be a part of the system. The civil government is (supposed to be) run by the people. What is wrong with being a part of the decission making process in a civil government that invites you to do so?

Why should we let every other group make the decisions for us? And the arguement that the Christians in the other country's you mentioned don't fight for moral standards in the law doesn't have any parallel with politics and Christians in the United States. They are fighting for survival as well as for the souls of the lost.

Why can't we fight for the souls of the lost and join a political system that invites us to? We have the privilege of living in a country where we can have a voice. Whether you like it or not, this country was founded on Judeo-Christian values. Are we wrong to want and try to keep that tradition alive?

Absolutely not!
 
I think christians are fighting an inward battle that they may not be aware of. One question I always have for myself is: If I knew the future, what would I do about it?

For example: If I knew that I was going to win the lotto jackpot, worth 100 million dollars, this friday would I continue to go to work for the rest of the week, what would I do differently between now and then?

The same is true with prophesy, my understanding of scripture is that things are going to get a whole lot worse as the world is turned over to it desires before things get a whole lot better when Jesus comes to set up his kingdom.

I think there is some genuine attitude of, well, can't change Gods plans, what will happen, will happen whether or not I get off this couch, so I might as well stay on this couch because my favourite tv show is on.

I beleive genuinely that God doesn't call everybody to march on government for every cause that God stands for. If we all did that, who would be left to lend a helping hand to our neighbours?

We all have work to do in Gods kingdom, and its best we concentrate on doing our part in that kingdom. If you have a manner about you that places you well in the public ring to fight against abortion, go and do your work and leave those who council those who choose to have an abortion and are in need of Gods healing, do theirs.

This goes back to an earlier post I made, move as God moves you. Remember, even the last car of a train does its role to the fullest! So if you feel as if your role is the lowest and garners the least amount of attention, stand up and get it done for Jesus. And remember, while everybody loves to see the awesome power of train engine pulling through town, every last motorist and pedestrian is even more happy to see the last car of a 100 car train, especially if they are late for a meeting!!!
 
I agree with everything you posted Gods Peon. I'm not trying to get everyone to march on Washington D.C. I don't do that myself :) It doesn't take a lot of time or energy to be politically active in the way I am arguing. Vote as a Christian should vote. Write your congressman (email is great for this). Don't be afraid to stand up for your beliefs (many conservative Christians take a back seat and let the liberals lead them by their nose ring).

The world doesn't know how many of us are out there or how strongly we believe, because we don't make noise. We have a tendency as a group to just sit back, wring our hands, and say "oh my". We need to be willing to take the persecution that comes with following Christ.

The enemy doesn't like it when we stand up to be counted. Look at how the media responded to the mediocre push of the 'religious right' in the last U.S. election. We are in a spiritual war not only in our personal lives, but in the world at large as well.

God calls us all to different tasks, He uses us all in different ways according to the gifts that He has given us. But God calls all of us to certain tasks. We all need to be willing to protect the children and the weak. We all need to stand up and protect the God given freedoms that we have in this country (the same applies to Canada) to worship him. Those freedoms are being attacked daily.

Like I said above, it doesn't take much time to do what any responsible citizen should do anyway Christian or not. Get informed, vote in a way that God would approve of, and take five minutes to send that email. Whether your congressman is a Christian or not (and sadly most aren't) can you imagine the pressure that could be applied if all voting Christians did this?

Don't neglect the other things God calls you to do, but God does call us to be good citizens.
 
I agree that we should stand up and make our voices heard, I was not arguing with you on that point. Write, dance, sing, talk, be the hands and arms, feet and legs of Jesus in all that you do.

Read the 7th letter in revelation...don't be lukewarm, be hot or cold, do something, its better then say you will do something and then don nothing.


**EDIT**

I can not write elaquontly...but I do find decent articles that I believe protray my position fairly well and then try and get it out to more people:

Case in point


34 looks, not necessarily reads, no comments, but IMO, this is one of the best written articles looking at one topic that I find close to heart, marriage.
 
Last edited:
I sometimes wish I was more involved. I do vote and read up on the important issues, but don't always take any action if I oppose (such as sending letters to representatives, etc.). My husband, on the other hand, will take action. He is an avid Freeper. If you don't know what that is, he spends a lot of time at Free Republic: http://www.freerepublic.com/home.htm
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top