Profanity on Alliance Chat

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Halonic

Halonic

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After witnessing a "WTF" on alliance chat today and comments by a different person that they personally didn't think profanity was wrong.....they just didn't use it because it was an alliance rule......I bit my tongue really hard.

I could copy and paste page after page on this subject from the internet. I could type my own experience with profanity as a testimony. I choose to do neither. Instead, I have selected three verses from God's Word that address this subject. There are others, but let God speak for himself.

The only advice I will give is that it doesn't matter what any of our OPINIONS are concerning profanity. The ONLY thing that matters is what God has to say on the subject (these are from the NIV):

Psalms 19:14
May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O Lord, my Rock and my Redeemer.

Ephesians 4:29
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.

Matthew 15:17-20
"Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body?
But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.'
For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.'"
 
Well said-- that is exactly why the alliance is so strict on profanity. Not only that, but also the fact that Popcorn Boy, even very occasionally Derk's 6 year old son might potentially see alliance chat, and as a parent, I would do everything I can to make sure that no parent is forced into that conversation before their child is ready for it.
 
Ya the only things that should be said over alliance chat is: help, trade (max of three posts), Party forming(max of three), questions, fellowship. That's ALL that that chat is for, in my terms (mabey i might be missing a few thing but...)
and as a youngER person i really dont need to be subject to stuff like that.
 
I'll come right out and say that I think I was the one Halonic was referring to who said I did not think profanity was wrong. I made a comment after someoen elses stating that profanity is not allowed in alliance chat although personally I have no problem with it. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm very open to discussing these issues. Growing up as a Navy brat I would hear my father and uncle use profanity more and more as I got older(yea the curses like a sailor saying is true). So I have been exposed to this language for quite some time. As I got older, and got into my awkward teenage years I like all other teens sought to belong, to fit in. So in middle school I began cursing here and there as it seemed to be the thing to do. It's something I still struggle with. In most situations I am able to bite my tongue but when it's just me and the guys I tend to slip. I do my best to keep my tongue at bay whilst I am around my elders and women, but when it's just me and the guys we all kinda just loose accountability. I try I really do. It has just become a part of my normal vocabulary and its something I struggle with jin the same way someone else might struggle with truthfulness or lust.

I know it offends some people but I have developed something of an opinion to the effect of "its only just a word". Now I know some words do offend which is why I do my best to abide by the wishes of the alliance and bite my tongue. So for me I don't necessarily believe cursing is wrong, as much as I think it is just in bad taste. There are alternative words that don't cut as deep(regardless of the fact that they might hold the same meaning).

Basically to clarify when I said I don't mind cursing but the alliance has it's rules I meant to say that it doesnt offend me personally but a line must be drawn.

But I Stc95 said it well when he said he doesnt need to be subject to that kind of language. It's one thing to hear something you've already heard, it's another to corrupt the mind of someone who hasn't been subject to that kind of language.

But yea like I said I'm very open to discussion. That's one of the reasons I came back, accountability is something I lack even in the so called Christian environment of Messiah College. So feel free to tel me why you think I'm wrong but please be civil about it, we are all entitled to our opinions.
 
Stc95 said:
and as a youngER person i really dont need to be subject to stuff like that.
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Thanks Halonic, for posting this. Rampant profanity is one of the things that makes so many women uncomfortable online, too.

Dauntless said:
It has just become a part of my normal vocabulary and its something I struggle with jin the same way someone else might struggle with truthfulness or lust.
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Being used to it does not make it okay. And I am subject to it often; just because I have heard or read such words does not mean I should have to hear or read them again. (And as an officer, I need to have alliance turned on; I can't just turn it off every time something comes up.)

There is also the issue of common courtesy.
 
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I think in this setting, where we are basically an online church (by definition, a gathering of believers in fellowship), we are meant to edify one another and encourage righteousness.

According to the Bible (in the context of Holy living), everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial. So yes, swearing is allowed, since "it's only a word." After all, words are cultural inventions, and someone who speaks another language won't even know what it means if we say a cuss word. However, in the context of our guild / church, we should not use any language that might cause someone else to stumble. That really goes for any situation: you decide for yourself whether it is beneficial to use coarse language in a certain situation.

For the record, in most cases, swearing is not beneficial.

However, I am of the belief that there are certain situations where a well-placed F-bomb is one of the best apologetical moves a disciple of Jesus can make. Paul even said that he used different techniques for different people (when he's with Jews, he acts like a Jew... gentiles, same thing. I can't remember the verse...). Here's what I mean. I know a pastor in Texas who told me this story:

There's a guy he was talking to that had been hurt over and over again by the church, and he couldn't seem to get a grip on the fact that the church actually is a group of imperfect people, and they should be welcoming imperfect people like him. Instead, he had seen nothing but people pretending to be perfect and shunning out the people like him (he had AIDS and was addicted to marijuana). That, along with intellectual issues and gripes against God, all piling on until he just is almost at the point of explosion because he simply is overwhelmed by how little he wants to be a Christian. It's at this point, instead of arguing the points of Christianity and giving him a theological lesson, that the pastor just sighed, "F---in' A." It was like a conversational Ctrl-Alt-Delete. Everything became much more relaxed, and the man he was talking to knew he was talking to a real person, not just a pastor there to pastor him. It was a very welcoming gesture, and the man ended up giving his life to Jesus months later and became a deacon at the church just before he died.

Again, that is a very VERY rare circumstance. It was careful. Most importantly, it was beneficial. I certainly don't condone swearing among believers, and I agree with anyone who says that it is wrong to do it in-game, even abbreviated. We will respect each other and honor the Lord. But I did want to talk about the Biblical standpoint on measures of holiness.
 
For those of you who think a cuss word, or any kind of bad language, is "just a word":

Proverbs 18:21 - "Life and death are in the power of the tongue.."
 
I can see both sides of the coin here.
Yes, there's really no true need for profanity; things can be expressed the same way without using it.
On the other hand, I can see where Michio is coming from.

I think most Christians put too much of an emphasis on it, to the exclusion of other, more important matters.
The Christian CS:S server I play on is a good example. If you type something that could even be remotely taken as a swear, you've typically got any admins that are on, along with anyone who feels like it, with their fingers literally jumping up and down on the key bound to say "Watch your language! This is a Christian server!" when you press it. It's really annoying when you see 15 or so of those messages to a single "dam" or something similar.

It's all about priorities.
I'm reminded of a quote from Tony Campolo, a pastor who is somewhat controversial, but he makes a valid point.
Tony Campolo said:
I have three things I'd like to say today.
First, while you were sleeping last night, 30,000 kids died of starvation or diseases related to malnutrition.
Second, most of you don't give a s***.
What's worse, is that most of you are more concerned with the fact that I said s*** than the fact that 30,000 kids died last night.
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Like I said, I don't think foul language should be used, and I generally follow that principle myself, but I don't think it should be the end-all, be-all Christian issue either.
 
Bottom line:
It's a sin, Jesus told us not to sin.

Don't do it, don't condone it, don't say it's OK in certain situations, don't give me examples of pastors saying them. It still doesn't make it right. Just because your pastor used them or uses them, doesn't defeat the bottom line - it's a sin. Sorry, but I'd rather listen to the Bible over any human man/woman - no matter who it is, or what level of holiness they have achieved.
 
Goose- If you think it's a sin, it's a sin for you, so don't use it. But please be more respectful before you start condemning your brothers. The sin of using words to hurt people doesn't require any particular words, and the words that society finds taboo vary between societies. In Russian, the word pancake (singular) is considered dirty and used the way Americans use a word that refers to excrement.

Words, as language, have no power that doesn't exist in the hearts and minds of those who hear them. I use "profanity" occasionally when I'm talking to people who have a different set of meanings for the words involved and who are made more comfortable by its use.

However, AmericanJudkins is right, if it is not specifically more edifying then any other possible words in a situation it should never be used. In my men's group we use words that we would never use in the presence of ladies or children, but we need to be able to speak openly about sin, temptation, and where we are with absolute honesty. Were we living in a perfect world, those words wouldn't exist, but neither would words like torture. Ignoring sin is as bad as obsessing over it, and pretending that harsh language is as evil as the acts it describes is just ridiculous.

I don't "curse" around people who are against it, but I also don't keep any guns in my house because my housemates think they're inherently evil, I don't eat meat around vegetarians with a moral objection to it, and I haven't bought clothes in a year because I know a child-labor activist who thinks American consumerism is abhorrent. I base this practise on Romans 14, which says that we must not judge our brothers who are stronger or weaker then us in some area, but that it is the responsibility of the stronger brothers not to cause their weaker brothers to stumble. That's why nobody should object to the ban on profanity, and it seems to me like nobody has.
 
wishanem - you and I have been through this conversation, we don't want to start it all over again.

Yes, I think using profanity is a sin - not because of my personal guilt, but from what the BIBLE tells me. Don't push this on me because you're trying to justify using profanity. If you want to get mad at someone for declaring it a sin, get mad at Jesus. I don't care what pancake is in russian, if I spoke russian I would know not to use it. The Bible leaves it general because he knew that words would vary not only between soceities, but also between generations. He obviously couldn't write them all down and say, "Do not say these words: blah, blah, blah". There is not 1 single cuss word that I know of that is uplifting.
 
Goose- If you think it's a sin, it's a sin for you, so don't use it. But please be more respectful before you start condemning your brothers. The sin of using words to hurt people doesn't require any particular words, and the words that society finds taboo vary between societies. In Russian, the word pancake (singular) is considered dirty and used the way Americans use a word that refers to excrement.
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It's not just society, it's the Bible. (like Goose said)
 
ok I am very against Profanity but I do not judge people who use it. I consider profanity = person not educated or bringing themselves down to a lower level. I will agree that Profanity to be a sin and so is disobeying your parents arguing with them. Man was born into sin and has a sinful nature. Now We are to do our best to NOT sin. But we will always mess up. So dont beat up people who may use foul language. Remember i am sure you sin everyday. Maybe you dont have a problem with cussing but you have problems obeying your parents there is no difference between the two. We are all in different phases with our walks with the Lord. Heck Judging each other is a sin. All Jesus asks is for us with the best of our abilities to live like HE did in the end we are saved BY GRACE! Not works thank the Lord. If it was by works or how we acted we would all fail. I personally do not nor will I use a swear word but i hear them everyday. I dont want to see them in Chat I hear enough at work. I think Patrick and Shane have valid points as well as Goose. I think everyone agrees swearing is not best but to beat ourselves when we slip or someone else slips is also just as sinfull. Now I will tell people watch the language in guild chat it is more of a reminder hey you just said something that was inapproiate and most people are like oops sorry! It is something they maybe struggling with and did not realize it slipped. When you get a job in the real world you have to really watch what you say you can pick up on foul language very easily and not realize you said it. I have to keep myself in check everyday. I have never slipped but there have been a few times where I caught myself about to say something that I would NEVER dream of saying.
 
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Well said Andrew.

I think I was a litle unclear in my post. I wasn't condoning nor saying that cursing is ok. I was simply saying that it's somehting I've grown used to and struggle with every day. We all have things we struggle with. Cursing is just one of mine that despite how many times I do slip, I still beat myself up over(figuratively of course) for doing. I don't need others telling me it's wrong as I already know that and I get enough abuse about it from myself. It's just a difficult thing for me but I know that still doesnt make it right. As I said I'm working on it.
 
Goose62 said:
Bottom line:
It's a sin, Jesus told us not to sin.

Don't do it, don't condone it, don't say it's OK in certain situations, don't give me examples of pastors saying them. It still doesn't make it right. Just because your pastor used them or uses them, doesn't defeat the bottom line - it's a sin. Sorry, but I'd rather listen to the Bible over any human man/woman - no matter who it is, or what level of holiness they have achieved.
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Kind of a snide remark, brother. I really was just trying to bring up what I believe scripture says about holy living and, specifically "the believer's freedom," (1 Corinthians 10:23-33). Here's something Paul says, in the context of whether you should do something that is against your conscience: "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the Glory of God. Do not cause anyone to stumble... I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved."

More importantly, this can't be an issue that divides us. We all know that cussing shouldn't happen in-game or in-forum. Let this be something that we determine for ourselves along with "What movies are O.K. to watch", "what music is O.K. to listen to," "How many drinks," and "how much skin." Just remember that lots of Paul's letters talk about not using foul language, and that James talks about how powerful the tongue is. But also, keep in mind that Peter and Paul both had pretty foul mouths themselves. No one is perfect, and no one should be ashamed -- there's forgiveness here! We all love each other, and we love Jesus. And we agree that no one should cuss in game or in the forums.

I think this thread should be closed, so that nothing further divides us here. :D
 
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