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Hello Utima,[b said:
No, we would not have to do away with the Cross. For the Jews to accept the Promised One in any way that would do them advantage, it would only make sense that they receive also the Doctrine of Redemption -- the Cross is a Symbol of that. Mary, That Jewish Virgin, whom the Jews may respect as the First Leader of Their Church after Christ, Herself popularlized "The Cross" -- She was the one who had little copies made and passed around. It wasn't one of the filthy gentiles, and so the Jews need not shun the symbology.
It would not be that difficult. Many Jews are presently in the Catholic Church and then there are other Jewish Organizations that believe that Jesus Christ was the Promised One and believe in Christ's Redemptive Dispensation.
You seem to be arguing that The Catholic Church should roll back the Clock and pretend that Christ had never existed. That could not be the case. The Jews would certainly have to come to grips with the Reality that their Promised One had come and gone, and that they largely missed it, but for that passing moment when they screamed for His Blood and had Him murdered -- well, there were also the great throngs of Believers in the Suburbs. Jerusalem played out badly, but Christ had been loved everywhere else.
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Oh! I'm so lost on this new Page... I didn't see that you had answered me.[b said:
No, I have no reason to Publish. If people 'steal' my idea than I am just happy that somebody else is taking the trouble to advance the idea into corners I would be to busy to cover myself. Besides, everyone here would know it was Leo Volont. My ego is not so large that that would not well cover it!
"The Jewish Pope" was not meant to be a 'funny' notion, though I can see it from that angle. No, in fact there was a Saint in the time of Bernard named Malachi who had named the next two hundred and sixty some Popes - figuratively. And the name of the Last Pope used a Symbol that usually designated The Hebrew People, which may have planted within me the seed of my idea. When it occured to me that all of the Church's Institutional Anti-Semitism sourced out of Paul, the conclusion was easy.
Now, you have only known me recently, but I used to be the most Anti-Semitic Man on Earth -- still am toward most of them, the same way that I hate Prots who are otherwise of my same race and ethnic group. But it comes as a huge surprise to even myself that I would hand the Catholic Church over to a Jew, but the simple decency of it makes the logic irrefutable.
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Dear Medjai,[b said:
No... but what I envision would necessarily Overhaul and utterly Transform Judaism.
You see, Judaism went into atrophy and then paralysist. They first lost their Arc of the Covenant, and then their Temple was destroyed. Their Heritage of Prophets died out and for no explainable reason they stopped adding to their Holy Book,... well, no reason except that they stopped getting anything from God. The Messiah had come and they missed The Train, and then the station went out of business. Judaism has now turned into a Realestate Business where they use the Promise of Abraham as a club to beat the land out of the hands of the Arabs. The Reason so many Jews do convert -- even in the face of The Church's institutionalized Anti-Semitism, is they see that it is obvious that there was a Window in History where the Messiah did Manifest, and that it was Jesus Christ. Now, a Jewish Pope, even if he is a Rabbi from Brooklyn would understand that this would be the Biggest Thing for Judaism since Adam and Eve. Christ was the Promise of Abraham -- THERE IS NOTHING BIGGER TO CONSIDER. It would eclipse everything else. But yes, Catholics would have to make room for all the Traditional Jewish Holidays, male circumcision (as least for infants), and whatever else they haggle out at the councils, and there would be lengthy Councils with Fat Bishops trying to protect their jobs, and Rabbis fighting for power. It would be ugly, and it will frankly take a Miracle. But, you know, Our Lady was a Jewish Girl, and in one of her most famous Prayers she speaks of the Promise of Abraham lasting Forever (the prayer is in Luke -- she realizes She is pregnant and goes to her Aunt Elizabeth who is with child with John the Baptist, and they pray together a remarkable Jewish Prayer). I think I will have the Favor of Our Lady in this quest of mine, and so if a Miracle is Necessary, a Miracle there will be.
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Hi Big J,
Hoes it going.
Yeah, okay, I'll email you the Paper when it is done. It goes from beginning to end as it is right now, but every time I read through it, I make changes. As soon as I can read it through without a change, I'll send it out. A few passages read well, so I am getting close. Now, it may be dissappointing for you -- alot of my flair as an entertaining writer comes from a sort of spontaneous indiscreet outrageousness which NEVER gets past a second rewrite. True intellectuals always edit out their "clever" statements as being distractionary, so none of my usual cute punchlines will make it through to the final copy. But, hopefully, it will have a contentual impact.
About Vatican II. Now usually I don't agree with everyone who sits around and grouses about Vatican II, and, believe me, everyone DOES sit around and grouse about Vatican II. But, what is happening, is the Stupid Bishops are beginning to make noises that not only is the Pope Infallible (a Silly Doctrine in itself) but that the Bishops when in Council are also Infallible. they have fallen into Magica Thinking -- that the Magical Holy Spirit will automatically inspire their fat stupid venial asses into ALWAYS voting the right way and for the right things. Well, as stauch a defender of Church History as I am (Up the Inquisition!) it is as clear as the nose on anybody's face that Church Councils have not been Infallible and Popes have not been Infallible. They must be getting High, they've gotten so silly.
You want to know who's infallible? A Saint Bernard or somebody like that -- someone who is followed thick by miracles and on the mark prophecy. Not a corpulant Bishop who got his chair because he had society connections and was able to put through a bigger charity drive then the parish priest next door. These Fat Cats think they can grease their way into Heaven. But even with Bernard -- He pushed through the 2nd Crusade. And so 100,000 Knights went off to the Holy Land thinking that they had God's Miraculous Support. Well, when the first Muslim Charge came, they broke and ran. They didn't think they had to actually fight.
Oh, just got done reading a book. Now, One Knight could stand against a hundred Muslim Riders because the armor and the weapons of the Knight could stand up to the tactics of the muslim. But the Knight would need a certain amount of experience in the field against the Turk before he would be sure of this. As it happened, in a First Engagement when the Knight would see his own Number of Horse outnumbered 10 to one, he would think of this in European terms as though it were Knight against Knight, forgetting that the Islam Horse would only shoot a little baby arrow and wheel and ride away. If the European would keep riding straight ahead with his lance, instead of retreating in fright, then they would go "Was that it?" A couple little wooden arrows bouncing off their armor plate.
But it happened time and again with new detachments coming from Europe -- they would break and run and put their back to the enemy -- and then they would have a problem, because the Moslem ponies were less weighed down and they could keep up with a retreat, and the European armor less effective from the back -- and a Knight can't lance them like boils when he's running away.
When word got back to Europe that 98% of his Army was cut down, he said "Well, it was better they die for Christ in Penance for the sins of the World, then to have stayed in Europe where they were all not much better than thieves and rapers". Now THATS the Holy Spirit! See if you could ever get some fat modern Bishop to say something so true.
Hoes it going.
Yeah, okay, I'll email you the Paper when it is done. It goes from beginning to end as it is right now, but every time I read through it, I make changes. As soon as I can read it through without a change, I'll send it out. A few passages read well, so I am getting close. Now, it may be dissappointing for you -- alot of my flair as an entertaining writer comes from a sort of spontaneous indiscreet outrageousness which NEVER gets past a second rewrite. True intellectuals always edit out their "clever" statements as being distractionary, so none of my usual cute punchlines will make it through to the final copy. But, hopefully, it will have a contentual impact.
About Vatican II. Now usually I don't agree with everyone who sits around and grouses about Vatican II, and, believe me, everyone DOES sit around and grouse about Vatican II. But, what is happening, is the Stupid Bishops are beginning to make noises that not only is the Pope Infallible (a Silly Doctrine in itself) but that the Bishops when in Council are also Infallible. they have fallen into Magica Thinking -- that the Magical Holy Spirit will automatically inspire their fat stupid venial asses into ALWAYS voting the right way and for the right things. Well, as stauch a defender of Church History as I am (Up the Inquisition!) it is as clear as the nose on anybody's face that Church Councils have not been Infallible and Popes have not been Infallible. They must be getting High, they've gotten so silly.
You want to know who's infallible? A Saint Bernard or somebody like that -- someone who is followed thick by miracles and on the mark prophecy. Not a corpulant Bishop who got his chair because he had society connections and was able to put through a bigger charity drive then the parish priest next door. These Fat Cats think they can grease their way into Heaven. But even with Bernard -- He pushed through the 2nd Crusade. And so 100,000 Knights went off to the Holy Land thinking that they had God's Miraculous Support. Well, when the first Muslim Charge came, they broke and ran. They didn't think they had to actually fight.
Oh, just got done reading a book. Now, One Knight could stand against a hundred Muslim Riders because the armor and the weapons of the Knight could stand up to the tactics of the muslim. But the Knight would need a certain amount of experience in the field against the Turk before he would be sure of this. As it happened, in a First Engagement when the Knight would see his own Number of Horse outnumbered 10 to one, he would think of this in European terms as though it were Knight against Knight, forgetting that the Islam Horse would only shoot a little baby arrow and wheel and ride away. If the European would keep riding straight ahead with his lance, instead of retreating in fright, then they would go "Was that it?" A couple little wooden arrows bouncing off their armor plate.
But it happened time and again with new detachments coming from Europe -- they would break and run and put their back to the enemy -- and then they would have a problem, because the Moslem ponies were less weighed down and they could keep up with a retreat, and the European armor less effective from the back -- and a Knight can't lance them like boils when he's running away.
When word got back to Europe that 98% of his Army was cut down, he said "Well, it was better they die for Christ in Penance for the sins of the World, then to have stayed in Europe where they were all not much better than thieves and rapers". Now THATS the Holy Spirit! See if you could ever get some fat modern Bishop to say something so true.
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Dibbler
Guest
Hello Leo,[b said:
Remember me from AN? Probably not. You were going as I was arriving.
I would be happy to to read your paper too. Although I disagree with your theistic beliefs in general I must admit I am no fan of Paul, the Roman.... the convert, lol!
It's the 13th to day and so far the pope as survived, although I'm waiting to hear the news before midnight... haha.
Please PM or email me your paper.
Regards Dibbler
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Dibbler
Guest
ROTFL, The pope is already dead but refuses to lie down and admit it.[b said:
I'll give him another six months and thats cutting-me-own-throat
Ultima Avatar
New Member
Oh crap! The pope's gonna die? Whee.
My friend was going over to sing for him in November with the CC Cathedral Choir...that sucks.
My friend was going over to sing for him in November with the CC Cathedral Choir...that sucks.
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Medjai
Guest
Its the 13th, is the pope dead yet Leo?
Thaddius
Member
Well, Its now pretty much the 14th around the world.
Cory
Cory
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Okay.[b said:
I guess I'll just have to start sending out my Vatican Letter Email, even if there is a huge chance that the Pope will soon die and create a major distraction.
I have to wonder what he is holding on for? Today was his 25 Anniversary, but I wouldn't think him vain enough to think of 'personal' mile stones.
I heard that after the 'shooting' back in '82 he had a series of Visions with Our Lady and she gave him a schedule and a timetable of things he was to accomplish. But there is nothing big waiting in the wings. He has already appointed a slew of Young Cardinals (one of whom will be the Next Pope -- they wouldn't elect one of the existing old frumps -- not for a Five Minute Reign). This, is effectively him setting his affairs in order. He is now officially ready to die.
Maybe he is waiting for December 8th -- The Feast of the Immaculate Conception.
Anyway, I'm almost done that Letter.
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Dear Dibbler,[b said:
Okay... I wrote your name down on actual paper so I don't forget.
I might lift out sections of the letter and Post them. Much of the Letter has been coming out in these threads as a kind of Anti-Paul Doctrine that I have been honing to an ever sharper point, of course with the correlations which are taking me by surprise. I really was so antisemitic, that now, since I no longer allow myself anything that Paul enjoyed, I am flying in a vacuum. What will the Church become when once it renounces its institutional antisemitism? New ground entirely and I can hardly be expected to have all the right answers immediately.
Islam has me incredibly puzzled. Justice demands that Islam be reconciled, as righteous innocents, before an alliance be made with the Jews, who, otherwise would use any new Strength to commit further Atrocity. But Catholicism has nothing to offer Islam. It would seem that I would wait for a turn of events. But often Patience is the Council of Cowards.
Then there is the Chinese. No conflicting Religion. And they have a Culture of Merit -- a True Meritocracy -- that goes back millenia. Before any New Jerusalem gets fixed in concrete, it would be most positive to bring the Chinese in while it is still in embryo -- so that they feel like they are active partners. But again, there is nothing we have to offer them.
I suppose this is how I Pray. I confront God with all the difficulties that stand in our way, as events stand now.
There was a famous Saint in the 15th Century -- Saint Vincent Ferrer. He was a continuous Miracle. But he also had a following of 10,000 flagulants -- people who bared their backs and constantly whipped themselves in Penance. It was all the power of this Penance that fueled the Miracles. Now, we need Miracles, more than ever. But the modernist mentality shirks any idea of assuming the least bit of pain. Even at my altar I keep a padded chair.
But Our Lady of Fatima told us that the Rosary would give Her power. It is not that painful to say the Rosary, but it is boring to distraction. And millions of Catholics say the Rosary daily. Maybe that is enough for my Miracles.
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Well, I should hope so... that the Pope knows the day on which he will die. They say this has been a particularly Saintly Pope, as far as Popes go -- remembering that Popes come from Bishops, and I generally have a low opinion of the Spiritual Attainments possible to Bishops -- believing that there is an inherent contradiction between Spirituality and all the politicing and ambition required to climb over everyone else's back to become a Bishop. And Pope's are chosen mostly because, of all these Fat Bishops, they seem to excell in Administrative Capabilities. So, it is difficult to expect much Saintliness from them. But, if we could, knowing their Fate is not much of a trick.[b said:
Philip Kramer, who wrote that "My Brief Experience in Eternity and What I Saw" -- about the Final Judgment and heaven, hell and purgatory... his Great Uncle was something of a Saint. Called together his big extended family for his "Going Away" Party and, without being apparently sick at all, assembled everyone around his bed, after the dancing and feasting were over, of course, and died. They had known he was Religious, but when they were cleaning the body they discovered the usual Saintly paraphernalia -- hair shirts, snotted chords and chains tied around him.
But, about this Pope. As I said before, Our Lady had given him a "To Do" List. I would think he must be finished it. Go to www.Vatican.va and look at the schedule -- nothing on it. His work is done. But, I was thinking, he may be waiting for the same thing I and everyone else is waiting for -- those sure signs of the End -- One of those Big Miracles Mary has been promising. He's holding on for the Big Show.