Raiding with the Guild: Some Expectations and Looking Forward

[7F]LarryBoy

[7F]LarryBoy

New Member
I know Cataclysm raiding is a few weeks off yet, but I wanted to start talking now about the guild's plans for raids, and to try a bit to form expectations around raiding.

Breaking Old Habits
For the last few years, there has been a bad habit in the guild that we need to break if we are going to successfully push the guild forward in all the areas of guild advancement. This habit is “Entitlement”: the idea that regardless of priorities, availability, skill level, gear level, knowledge, and preparedness, there should be a raid spot for me. This is a fallacious philosophy that doesn’t hold water in real life, and doesn’t hold water in the guild. It results mediocre groups and mediocre results.

The Necessity of Standards
In Cataclysm, we want to provide opportunities for members to experience all areas of the game. We also want to excel in each of these areas. For raiding this means stocking our raid groups with members who are prepared for raids and who have the aptitude to overcome the challenges presented by the raid encounters. Particularly in 10 man raiding, which is the raid size we will likely be focusing on, even one under-geared or under-skilled player can significantly hold back the progress of the whole group. Because of this, standards for the raid groups are necessary.

The exact standards for each group will be determined by the leaders of that raid.

What does this mean for you?
You may not be cut out for raiding! It takes a certain mindset, a good amount of spacial awareness and the ability to multitask, and a lot of patience and stamina in order to be a good raider.

Here is an example of the standards that I might use for the progression group I'm planning to assemble.

Are you ready for progression raiding? Ask yourself these questions:

Mindset. I find that if a player has this mindset, they are generally a great raider, and things like tanking/dps/healing performance, gearing, and raid preparation tend to fall in line.
- Do you strive to always be the best and most knowledgeable about your class?
- Are you continually seeking feedback on your play, via tools such as Recount, or by examining combat log parses to see how you compare to others in your raid, guild, or globally on a site like World of Logs?
- Do you watch for upcoming changes in the game that could effect your class, and research what you might have to adjust to compensate? Do you review theorycrafting forums such as Elitist Jerks to see what ideas and input others in the community have?
- Are you considered an expert of your class and role in the guild? Do people come to you for advice on your class and role?
- Do you frequent the guild forums in order to stay current with happenings in the guild, and so that you can contribute to discussions?

Commitment.
- Can you set aside two evenings a week for 6-12 months? Can you commit to making this a high priority in your life?
- Do you have the stamina and mental fortitude to wipe over and over and over on a new encounter?

Gearing and Experience.
- Have you successfully completed the level 85 heroic 5 man dungeons?
- Are you outfitted in level 346 gear or better?

I don’t expect everyone to be able to answer “yes” to all of these questions, but the ones in the Mindset and Commitment sections are most important. If you can’t answer “yes” to most of these questions, raiding may not be for you.
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Not every raid in the guild is going to use these standards, but this gives you an idea of what we're going for.

Shortly here I will be making a post about exactly how I plan to get the guild into Cataclysm raiding. Also, I am hoping to talk with Apollux and Berstromme (and probably Clearn) in the next couple of weeks about setting up a webpage (or forum thread, if that works) that shows all the raid group rosters, any vacancies, etc.

If you are at all interested in running a guild raid group, please let Apollux, Berstromme, or me know. I think that we're going to have a lot of interest in raiding, and we need to have people to herd all the cats.
 
I am quite interested in raiding however my life has been chaos for the last couple of weeks and I will be away for another 2 weeks on vacation. I am concerned that just due to timing I will not be able to get into a progression group as I don't know if I can complete everything that I would want to for qualifying.

I am in total agreement with the standards you have laid out here Alan so that is not the issue for me. Making it up to those standards before progression groups are formed is my concern. I am not slacking I just physically don't have time.

Beyond my own personal dilemma this is really getting me excited! Looking forward to it!
 
Note that the standards I listed there are an example of what might be expected for a progression group. My goal was to get people in the right frame of mind if they were hoping to get into a more serious 10 man. Ultimately, the raid leader of each group comes up with the standards for the group that they lead (the officers aren't mandating what the standards are for each group).

Also note that the group I plan on forming isn't "The Forgiven Raid Group". I wouldn't be surprised if we get 3 or 4 10 man groups going here in the next few months. We just need to have people step up to lead them (hoping to post on that this weekend!)
 
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we will see if I ever come back but as everyone knows if I come back in Jan, I will lead a raid group once mygear is up to par on chars and it will be my usual late night group, but I wont know if I am coming back til sometime in Jan.
 
rhysj said:
we will see if I ever come back but as everyone knows if I come back in Jan, I will lead a raid group once mygear is up to par on chars and it will be my usual late night group, but I wont know if I am coming back til sometime in Jan.
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We would be more than ecstatic to see your return Rhys (all teasing aside) but just make sure it is the right decision. I know you left due to wanting and needing more family time with the kidlets so just realize we support either way your choice will go. Of course I'd prefer to sway you to come back but no worries! :D
 
I'am looking forward to the new raids :)

I like ..
- Do you have the stamina and mental fortitude to wipe over and over and over on a new encounter?
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Lich King attempts 6438
Lich king kills 1

"Your mental fortitude has reached level 373!"

Ok exaggerating a little bit :)
 
The night I first killed Heroic Anub'arak in ToC10 was on the 14th attempt that night...sometimes it just takes a lot of reps to work all the kinks out of your strategy, and to get your group to execute correctly.
 
I think mental fortitude is a good way of phrasing it as well. In my short time of playing I have noticed how quickly some people get frustrated/disinterested/blameful whenever a boss may take more than 3 attempts. I sure don't mind wiping at all as long as I have the gold for repairs and keep my wits about me to try and make sure I execute my role rather than becoming the weak link due to lack of focus. And because I have not been part of a serious raid group in the guild itself my comments here are all reserved for pug's :) Even the one that I downed the LK with.
 
Allan I remember that kill that was a long night on him we flew though the rest of it then got stuck on him but it was worth it
 
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