Rated M for Mature

Tek7

Tek7

CGA President, Tribe of Judah Founder & President
Staff member
Grand Theft Auto IV was released last week (April 29, 2008) and has since received widespread critical acclaim. GTAIV for the PS3 currently holds the #1 game of all time on Metacritic, beating out even The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.

Persona 3 FES, the follow-up to critically acclaimed RPG Persona 3, was released April 22, 2008. GameSpot and RPGamer both awarded Persona 3 RPG of the Year in 2007.

Team Fortress 2 was released October 10, 2007 and since developed a large and active player community. Many Christian Crew members made the move from Counter-Strike: Source to TF2 late last year. CC currently runs multiple TF2 servers. Tribe of Judah established a TF2 chapter and server last November.

Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles has sold 1 million copies since its release last November.

These games represent a wide range of platforms: Playstation 2 (Persona 3 FES), Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 (GTA IV), Wii (Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles), and PC (Team Fortress 2).

Though they appear on different systems, they have two things in common: They received critical acclaim and they're rated M for Mature.

According to the Entertainment Software Association, the average game player is 35 years old. Many, if not most, of the active members of this community are old enough to purchase M-rated games.

So why don't we talk about M-rated games (with the exception of first-person shooters) that often?

I don't know if we, as a community, are ready to discuss this topic. I understand that the topic of M-rated games is a controversial one among Christian gamers. Asking the question, "Should Christian gamers play M-rated games?" is, in my opinion, oversimplifying the subject and not allowing for productive discussion. The question is equivalent to asking, "Should Christians watch R-rated movies?" Both Saw IV and The Godfather were rated R. The first has been dubbed "torture porn;" the latter is considered by many to be the greatest film of all time.

I'll pose a different question to start the discussion:

How do you decide whether or not to purchase a M-rated title?

Understanding this is a controversial topic, I would ask that everyone read and re-read their post before clicking "Post Reply."
 
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Have you seen the content in GTA4? It's literally borderline pornography..that's not just me talking. Also 90% of the time when the secular press gives something acclaim it's usually poorly done or not appropriate at all.
 
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Well, I can say that I will be purchasing GTA IV when it comes out for the PC. In my opinion, it all depends on the mind set of the person playing the game. Are you going to go out and do everything that Niko Bellic does in GTA IV? I know I'm not, I play GTA IV just because the story really isn't that bad at all, and I'm tired of playing games for 12 hours and having it be over (Mulitplayer Doesn't Count). Opening a thread like this isn't really going to accomplish anything but causing a huge argument. You'll have one group bashing that games and "feeling sorry" for those of us who play them, and the people who don't want to get preached to and just want to play a game and have fun.
 
for me, the decision to watch R-rated movies or purchase M-rated games is completely based on content. I know what weaknesses I have, and try to make decisions to avoid putting myself in difficult positions.

Whether it's games and movies with sexual content, over aggressiveness, violence, drug/alcohol use, language, or any other pitfall, I consider how much I can separate myself from those problems.

TF2 is just a gore fest, but it's a cartoon-ish one. I can easily see that it's just a game...log in when I want to play, log out when I get frustrated. I don't have an addiction to it - I play it for enjoyment and then quit.

As for GTA, Saw4, or the other stuff listed above? I looked at them, and they're not something I'm comfortable with. So I won't watch/play them. They would hold little entertainment value while simultaneously hurting my attempts to walk away from my addictions and sins.

Phantom said:
Opening a thread like this isn't really going to accomplish anything but causing a huge argument
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While just my take on it, I'm not sure that I agree with you, Phantom. It makes us think about what we're doing, explain why we agree or disagree with various content. Many religious groups are very much against RockStar games, GTA as a series, etc. This just gives both sides a chance to discuss the "how" and "why" we feel the way we do.
 
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I've thought long and hard about purchasing GTA4. Every review I read for it has called the story nothing short of amazing, and I'm all about the plot (though I do enjoy violence too :-)). However, the thing that will keep me from purchasing GTA4 is the sexual content and nudity. I have enough temptations outside of video games, and I don't need more inside the game.

If someone isn't submitting themselves to temptation and possible sin by playing the game, then there's no reason why they shouldn't. The Bible says nothing against it.
 
tjguitarz said:
However, the thing that will keep me from purchasing GTA4 is the sexual content and nudity.
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The ESRB rated GTA IV for the following reasons:
Intense Violence, Blood,
Strong Language,
Strong Sexual Content,
Partial Nudity,
Use of Drugs and Alcohol
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Team Fortress 2 was rated M for:
Blood and Gore,
Intense Violence
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Conservatives are often criticized for focusing on nudity and sexual content in games rather than violence and gore. I think it's important that we address that criticism and explain why we protest sexual content more fervently than violence and gore.

It is always sin to watch pornography; it may not be sin to view violent films. Watching Showgirls, the only NC-17-rated movie in recent memory, is completely different from watching The Passion of the Christ, which is the most violent film I've ever seen.

Why is it always sin to watch pornography but not always sin to watch violence? Watching pornography elicits lust, which is clearly sin. Watching violence, at least for a healthy person, does not elicit lust. In the case of The Passion of the Christ and films like Saving Private Ryan, graphic violence is used to emphasize the sacrifices made so we can live free. There is a purpose behind the violent images.

I would never recommend a parent take their ten-year old child to watch The Passion of the Christ, even though the purpose of the film is to drive home the gravity of the sacrifice Christ made for us; however, I might recommend the parent view the film himself or herself. What's the difference? Put quite simply: age. Children should not be exposed to violent images.

Pornography, on the other hand, is not appropriate at any age because it causes the viewer to sin.

I understand that many films with terrific stories feature nude scenes. These scenes are often done in what is considered a "tasteful" manner, but the scenes still elicit lust. Sexuality is an important part of life, but it is designed to be shared exclusively between a husband and a wife--not with the world.

What's also interesting (though perhaps irrelevant) to note is that almost no nude scenes feature husband and wife characters. Even if it were to portray a husband and wife in film, that would not excuse showing either person nude, but I wanted to highlight a disturbing trend in the portrayal of sexuality in American media: sex in television and film is almost exclusively portrayed in the context of premarital sex or extramarital affairs. The implications of this trend are not especially relevant to this thread, but could fill a new thread.

I think we also should differentiate between different types of violence and gore. The GTA series has you running over innocent civilians and beating prostitutes to get your money back while TF2 has you attacking members of the opposite team.

I won't contend that TF2's violence and gore adds anything to the game. If anything, it makes the game less accessible to younger players, who would otherwise be allowed to play a solid first-person shooter that encourages teamwork.

On a side note, when I play Unreal Tournament 2004, I turn off all blood, gore, and mature taunts. The configuration, in my opinion, drops the game from a M rating to a T for Teen rating. I would love to see similar options in other games.

Another personal note: I looked away from the screen during the really violent scenes of Braveheart. I can watch open-heart surgery while eating a hamburger and not flinch, but the site of realistic violent blood and gore turns my stomach.
tjguitarz said:
I have enough temptations outside of video games, and I don't need more inside the game.
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It's true that Christian men are bombarded by sexual temptation because companies understand that "sex sells." We are already bombarded by images of shapely women in revealing clothing in advertisements (print and online), television shows, billboards, magazine covers, and so on and so forth. Combine that with the widespread acceptance of young women and middle-aged women wearing tight or revealing clothing and you have minefields, both real and virtual, for the man who wants to keep his mind focused on discipleship and purity.
 
the whole thing about these games is like they say the content is scored one way, but you can't rate any online experience... Our TF2 server would be rated G compared to some I have played on where every other word is foul. So, I would think that newcomers should be fully understanding that while the game may be clean the people playing it and talking in game may be quite the opposite.
 
I think you hit the nail on the head, Tek, mostly.

I'll confess that I would prefer a TF2 like game with the gory and bloody violence over one without. Why that is, I don't know.
 
tjguitarz said:
I'll confess that I would prefer a TF2 like game with the gory and bloody violence over one without. Why that is, I don't know.
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I admit I've chuckled at the game's gib call-out feature a few times. Getting obliterated by a rocket and have the game point out "Your appendix!" is so absurd I have to laugh. I'm not proud of that, but I thought I'd share.
 
I have a friend who just got GTA4 over the weekend and I have played it and I must say, I enjoy it.

Would I get it, yes. Why? It is entertaining. I love to drive fast and shoot at things (Think FPS games) GTA4 embodies these qualities in a fairly good quality game.

Do I agree with the pornography? No.

Do I agree with the violence? No.

Do I believe it is a good game? Yes.

In a post above Tek said that pornography elicits lust out of healthy people and violence elicits more violence out of a not so healthy person. I don't want to turn this into a fighting match between sins, so lets not do that. I believe that whether it is a sin or not is beside the point, they are both bad... so ideally shouldn't we avert both?

I look at this game for face value. It's a game, and I find it entertaining. I'd buy it if I had a platform to play it on.
 
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Odale said:
In a post above Tek said that pornography elicits lust out of healthy people and violence elicits more violence out of a not so healthy person.
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The message I was trying to convey was that pornography elicits lust while viewing violent acts does not elicit lust in a mentally healthy person. If someone is sexually aroused by viewing violent acts, then there are more urgent issues on hand than video games.
Odale said:
I don't want to turn this into a fighting match between sins, so lets not do that.
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I agree that sin is sin, regardless of the type of sin. All sin distances us from God, whether it's lust, anger, refusing to use our gifts to fulfill God's purpose for our life, or skipping church to level a character in World of Warcraft.
Odale said:
I look at this game for face value. It's a game, and I find it entertaining. I'd buy it if I had a platform to play it on.
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I won't argue that the game isn't entertaining. I won't argue that it's not well-made. I haven't played the game myself, but I suspect that there's a good reason that so many critics have reviewed the game so well.

That all being said, is it still permissible for Christians to play GTA IV? Is it possible to play the game without sinning?

Furthermore, is it necessary for developers to include violent content to improve the quality of the game? Does graphic violence really add authenticity, realism, and grittiness as some developers believe or would the games still be as fun or more fun to play without violence and gore?
 
Tek7 said:
That all being said, is it still permissible for Christians to play GTA IV? Is it possible to play the game without sinning?
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If you do not find the rude parts of the game arousing, then I would say yes. Otherwise, no.

Tek7 said:
Furthermore, is it necessary for developers to include violent content to improve the quality of the game?
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I think in this instance it does. It is Grand Theft Auto. The game is all about violence.

Tek7 said:
Does graphic violence really add authenticity, realism, and grittiness as some developers believe or would the games still be as fun or more fun to play without violence and gore?
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That question renders an answer that will differ from person to person. So it is difficult to answer for everyone.

Again, I believe since violence is key in this game, that it would be more enticing in such a game.

Rockstar Games left out a few items that were in the previous GTA's. Such as sniping someone and their head popping off. No more decapitations in this game.
 
I don't have a problem with violence or sexual content in movies or games as long as they are there for a reason important to the story or artistic intent of the endeavor. For instance, there is a ton of violence and a pretty graphic sex scene in the movie Munich... but I did not have a problem watching it because both were absolutely integral to the plot of the film: A man who attempts to right the wrongs of a terrorist attack by hunting down and killing the perpetrators, only to become so consumed in his passion for revenge that he becomes obsessed with violence, to the point where his thirst for blood permeates every aspect of his life, even replacing the love he used to have for his wife. It's a very true-to-life tragedy with an important moral, and without the violence or sex it would not be as powerful of a film. But it is clear that the violence is there to shock rather than entertain, and the sex scene (which is interspersed with his visions and memories of violently killing his enemies) is there to disgust rather than titillate. Basically, as long as violence and sex are portrayed appropriately (i.e. not glorified or designed to debase the viewer), I am okay with them - as long as those watching are adults and not children, of course.

I haven't seen much of GTA4, so I can't really comment on it, but if it's anything like GTA3, in which one of the first missions involved a strip club, I'll pass on it.
 
Before, newcomers questioned Christians, how can Christians play CS.

Does anyone question like that to TF2, since you have a server now?

What if GTA 4 was on PC and you could make your own server.
Would you Christians limit or restrict the mature settings of the game?

Originally Posted by Phantom
Opening a thread like this isn't really going to accomplish anything but causing a huge argument
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This thread topic wasn't so bad.

http://www.cgalliance.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5696&highlight=M-rated
 
If I remember right, really the only reason that the ESRB rated it M instead of AO is due to the fact that there are only two in production, and that seems to be from pressure from Target and Wal-Mart, along with many other big-namebrand retail stores that refuse to carry games that are AO. Do I think that an AO rating would make a difference? Probably not, most people who aren't old enough would just get someone else to buy it for them. Would AO have affected the sales and distribution? As prior mentioned, yes. Would I ever buy GTA4: No. For two reasons
1. I dont have a PS3.
2. I absolutely hate some of the things you can do. A very close friend of mine that I've known for most of my life is in training to be a police officer, what do you think that I feel when I see someone in one of those games hit them with a car or something? While on one hand, someone who's played it that I talked to said it gave them more of a respect for the law. What will another group quite probably think? That it's okay to do whatever you want, including murdering the authorities.

Fin.
 
Actually, Yes, It is on the Xbox 360. I own it.

I do find the game very sexually explicit. But, on the other hand, very fun. I think it's a game that is not suitable for children. I also think they could have gone without the sexual content.

IMO it's a great game, although it could be even better without the mature sexual content.

As for if Christians should play it? I think you know individually if you should play it or not.
 
I bought Halo 2, and that's rated M. I really don't go by what the ESRB rates it. I thought Halo 1 and 2 (haven't played 3) should've probably been rated T... anyway...
 
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