Odale
Active Member
I took the risk of saying Xbox because I assumed people knew GTA4 is not offered on the original Xbox.
Vibro proved me wrong
Well said.
Rated M for Mature
- Thread starter Tek7
- Start date
Vibro proved me wrong
1. How far is to far? The excuse that it's "just a game" can be applied to any game so I reject it as valid. So is it ok to have virtual child porn just because it's not real its "just a game". No one should playing that. As to GTA it rewards criminal behavior so just why are people enjoying being a criminal? I don't think it's healthy for a person to enjoy using a prostitute and then beating her up to get your money back. Being evil is not a healthy fantasy at least not when it's explicitly cruel (60's Batman TV show evil is not the same thing). I understand that everything in our world is flawed and touched by sin so we will have to put up with something negative about everything, however, when looking at media I ask not just what is morally objectable about it but if it has anything positive to it as well? With GTA it may be a well made game but I see no positive reinforcement coming from it. If a person did get something positive from it is probably only because they had reservations before playing it which came out when seeing it. I would compare GTA to Gangster rap.
2. No person is completely immune to being changed. Watch or hear something enough and it will change anyone, its called brainwashing. The idea that with X age a person can watch or do anything they wish because they will be able to resist being changed is dead wrong. Furthermore the age that we are considered old enough or an "adult" is completely made up by society. That means there are some very immature "adults" and some very mature "children". The average life span was once 30 years and people got married at 14! The point is the sign of maturity is not doing something while you are tempted to do so. Maturity is showing self-restraint and responsibility for ones actions it's not "I have the right to get drunk because I'm 21" it's "you should know better than to get drunk at 21". With that and the sinful nature of the world in mind I have to ask... What games have you wanted to play but choose not to because of moral objections? If you can't name one I don't think a person can say they are showing maturity.
3. The bible does not forbid violence rather it says there is a time and a place for everything under God. To look at the secular ESRB ratings and say "this game has violence I shouldn't play it" is wrong. With that in mind GTA has a criminal plot, Team Fortress 2 does not. It is the context, not the action alone, that must be evaluated. Bugs Bunny cartoons could be considered violent but the context for that violence is never objectable.
4. Ok for the sake of argument lets say you can resist the influence of some controversial game, hearing cuss words repeated over and over doesn't make you think them, you don't think indecent thoughts during sexually provocative scenes and you aren't going to carjack anyone. However you are still giving money and thus support to making more games like it and that must be considered to. Sex and violence is a cheap, immoral way to make content and if it earns money, our money, that's all the type of game companies will make. What disturbs me is more and more companies are making mature (in the bad way) games.
5. I know that some things are too complicated and perhaps would be misunderstood or frightening to younger children (like the holocaust) thus there is some things that only older people should see (I also think children are going to lose their innocence all to soon and should keep it as long as they can but that's another subject). What I don't agree with is the idea that a mature plotline has to be explicit. Most sex scenes are completely irrelevant to a plotline and implied sex would do just as well in the very few plotlines where it is relevent. Schindler's List is a very good example of both perspectives. On one hand if you are trying to represent the cruel reality of the holocaust I don't think you can do that without showing that cruel reality and because of that it's going to be child unfriendly no matter what you do. On the other hand it was about the holocaust and I don't think showing a girl's bosom during an sex scene did anything for the movie. It was as if Spielberg said "we've already shown people demeaned by being forced to run around in the courtyard naked who cares about showing a bosom". That's not a excuse, context must be considered to.
6. I find it disturbing that older gamers are expected to "want to play mature" games. I don't like cutesy caricatures but I don't look for blood splattering out of every pore as a selling point either. For the record I have never liked Mario or Sonic ever, not when I was a child not now either (gasp). I have however always wanted to play a longer more difficult version of Zelda. The problem is the length/difficulty of games seems to be intertwined with more mature content I don't care for.
7. I think vast majority of "mature" media is made mature to sell copies not to show some deeper meaning. Of the things that do have a deeper meaning it usually doesn't end promoting a positive influence in people (or certainly not a Christian one) so I often question the need to create them.
8. I too admit that I find the captions in TF 2 amusing but it's not why I like the game nor why I plan to buy it. The game (like everything as I've stated) does have some objectable content but it has no plot to object to and a tiny bit of positive content in that you can play as a "Team". Long have I desired to play a game where I can actually help people. Of the little I played TF 2 the best moment was when my team was pinned down by a heavy and 2 medics on a hill. I appeared behind them to backstab the heavy and a medic and got a surprised "thanks spy" over voice chat
(note yes the Gerbil has a hero complex. You are talking to the guy who played half life one and kept all the npc helpers alive possible because I did not like them dying 
).
2. No person is completely immune to being changed. Watch or hear something enough and it will change anyone, its called brainwashing. The idea that with X age a person can watch or do anything they wish because they will be able to resist being changed is dead wrong. Furthermore the age that we are considered old enough or an "adult" is completely made up by society. That means there are some very immature "adults" and some very mature "children". The average life span was once 30 years and people got married at 14! The point is the sign of maturity is not doing something while you are tempted to do so. Maturity is showing self-restraint and responsibility for ones actions it's not "I have the right to get drunk because I'm 21" it's "you should know better than to get drunk at 21". With that and the sinful nature of the world in mind I have to ask... What games have you wanted to play but choose not to because of moral objections? If you can't name one I don't think a person can say they are showing maturity.
3. The bible does not forbid violence rather it says there is a time and a place for everything under God. To look at the secular ESRB ratings and say "this game has violence I shouldn't play it" is wrong. With that in mind GTA has a criminal plot, Team Fortress 2 does not. It is the context, not the action alone, that must be evaluated. Bugs Bunny cartoons could be considered violent but the context for that violence is never objectable.
4. Ok for the sake of argument lets say you can resist the influence of some controversial game, hearing cuss words repeated over and over doesn't make you think them, you don't think indecent thoughts during sexually provocative scenes and you aren't going to carjack anyone. However you are still giving money and thus support to making more games like it and that must be considered to. Sex and violence is a cheap, immoral way to make content and if it earns money, our money, that's all the type of game companies will make. What disturbs me is more and more companies are making mature (in the bad way) games.
5. I know that some things are too complicated and perhaps would be misunderstood or frightening to younger children (like the holocaust) thus there is some things that only older people should see (I also think children are going to lose their innocence all to soon and should keep it as long as they can but that's another subject). What I don't agree with is the idea that a mature plotline has to be explicit. Most sex scenes are completely irrelevant to a plotline and implied sex would do just as well in the very few plotlines where it is relevent. Schindler's List is a very good example of both perspectives. On one hand if you are trying to represent the cruel reality of the holocaust I don't think you can do that without showing that cruel reality and because of that it's going to be child unfriendly no matter what you do. On the other hand it was about the holocaust and I don't think showing a girl's bosom during an sex scene did anything for the movie. It was as if Spielberg said "we've already shown people demeaned by being forced to run around in the courtyard naked who cares about showing a bosom". That's not a excuse, context must be considered to.
6. I find it disturbing that older gamers are expected to "want to play mature" games. I don't like cutesy caricatures but I don't look for blood splattering out of every pore as a selling point either. For the record I have never liked Mario or Sonic ever, not when I was a child not now either (gasp). I have however always wanted to play a longer more difficult version of Zelda. The problem is the length/difficulty of games seems to be intertwined with more mature content I don't care for.
7. I think vast majority of "mature" media is made mature to sell copies not to show some deeper meaning. Of the things that do have a deeper meaning it usually doesn't end promoting a positive influence in people (or certainly not a Christian one) so I often question the need to create them.
8. I too admit that I find the captions in TF 2 amusing but it's not why I like the game nor why I plan to buy it. The game (like everything as I've stated) does have some objectable content but it has no plot to object to and a tiny bit of positive content in that you can play as a "Team". Long have I desired to play a game where I can actually help people. Of the little I played TF 2 the best moment was when my team was pinned down by a heavy and 2 medics on a hill. I appeared behind them to backstab the heavy and a medic and got a surprised "thanks spy" over voice chat
(note yes the Gerbil has a hero complex. You are talking to the guy who played half life one and kept all the npc helpers alive possible because I did not like them dying ).
Last edited:
blackgravity
New Member
I really think the ratings system needs to be changed. If a movie was released with the content of any of the recent GTA games it wouldn't even hit mainstream outlets. The game was not rated M instead of AO to keep it in Wal-Mart and Target,the "AO content" was removed to the ESRB's satisfaction.
When it comes to the sexual content, meh, I guess. I don't really ever get any glimpses of it because I always, without fail, skip cutscenes in GTA games. The stories (to me, anyway) are terrible, and never worth getting any mention ever, anywhere. The most fun I've had with any GTA games is trying to drive around a whole city without actually doing anything wrong. Seriously. If you can drive around Liberty City and not run a single red light, or get in a single fender bender, I tip my hat to you, because I can't.
On the topic of singling out sins, I really don't think it's fair to just settle on violence or sexuality. Almost every RPG out there has a core of occult content. If a sin is a sin, then to be fair, magic and spellcasting are like the pot calling the sex and violence kettle black. Just because one will bring about a less severe ESRB rating than the other doesn't make the T rated game any more appropriate in my opinion.
Just for an example into the ESRB's broken-ness, just check out Uncharted on PS3. That's the most realistic gun violence I've ever seen in a T rated game.
When it comes to the sexual content, meh, I guess. I don't really ever get any glimpses of it because I always, without fail, skip cutscenes in GTA games. The stories (to me, anyway) are terrible, and never worth getting any mention ever, anywhere. The most fun I've had with any GTA games is trying to drive around a whole city without actually doing anything wrong. Seriously. If you can drive around Liberty City and not run a single red light, or get in a single fender bender, I tip my hat to you, because I can't.
On the topic of singling out sins, I really don't think it's fair to just settle on violence or sexuality. Almost every RPG out there has a core of occult content. If a sin is a sin, then to be fair, magic and spellcasting are like the pot calling the sex and violence kettle black. Just because one will bring about a less severe ESRB rating than the other doesn't make the T rated game any more appropriate in my opinion.
Just for an example into the ESRB's broken-ness, just check out Uncharted on PS3. That's the most realistic gun violence I've ever seen in a T rated game.