Reading the Quran

Odale

Odale

Active Member
The title basically summed it up.

A few weeks ago I went to a friend's parent's house to watch a movie... but later in the night it devolved into a politics "chat."

Apparently his parents think Islam is a very violent religion... which it isn't. But that's basically all I know - it isn't a violent religion. So I want to know more.

I'm not going to get pulled into Islam, but I want to know more.

Discuss!
 
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I've read most of the "Satanic Bible". And I study evolution (though I've long stopped believing in it). I don't think there is anything wrong with figuring out what the other side is buying so long as you know you absolutely won't be tainted by it.

To sum up Islam...

In Christianity, we have our "old" and "new" testament. Islam claims that the Quran is the third book. Of course, they go back and change an awful lot in the process, such as saying that Jesus was just a prophet. They say that "Allah" is the SAME God who made the covenant with Abraham, which is funny because he sure started contradicting himself a lot now. Another big thing is they claim that the Bible was wrong about Isaac getting Abraham's inheritance. They claim God meant to say it was Ishmael, who fathered the Arab nations. This is why there is so much fighting today; both sides are claiming right to the holy land.

I'd definitely encourage you to look into it, as well as what other religions are saying. The whole "all religions are basically the same" that I keep hearing spouted is very wrong. Christianity is about God. Every other religion is all about "me".
 
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Good topic, Odale - especially this weekend.

I have an English translation of the Quran (many don't consider it the Quran if it is not in Arabic). I haven't sat and read it through - but I have read large portions of it.

I have dear friends who were missionaries to Muslims in several middle-eastern countries. They have had a huge influence on my thinking in this area.

I have sat down to chat with the imam and some of his elders in our local mosque. That, too, has helped gain a bit more balance than you can find in the headlines.

I will be chiming in - but I'd like to see what others have to say first. Thanks for raising the topic.
 
Odale said:
it isn't a "bad" religion.
Discuss!
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Could you clarify this more please?

Personally I think all religions are "bad" as they are man made, do not save, and do not lead you to the real God of the Universe.

But maybe you just mean they are "non-violent" ?

Certainly the "supernatural power" behind Islam is Satan and not God would you not agree?
 
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The Quran (I thought it was spelled Koran) is quite clear in some of it's teaching that it is every bit as violent as the Old Testament.

Islam has several wings which focus on the violence of the teachings.

This is not uncommon in all religions. (see crusades in the middle ages)
 
Here's how it was explained to me: The Koran (Qu'ran) was all based around the teaching of Muhammad. He started as a peace-loving guy and progressively got more violent as he got older. The reason that it's confusing is because the Koran is arranged by length of writing, not in chronological order. However, whatever Muhammad said last is what stands, in the case of any contradictions.

So, knowing that Muhammad was more violent in his later years, he would have been more hateful towards Christians (and generally, any non-Islam faith).... and it's the rule that lasts, even though it appears before the pacifist sections in length-order.

At least, that's how it was explained to me. I tried to read some English translations and didn't get very far because the translations didn't always make sense (I assume there are words with no direct translation, so the sentences just made no sense...much less the ideas conveyed in the stuff that I could read)

The big reason for the difference about who should have received Abraham's blessing... the common culture of the time was that the firstborn son would receive the blessing. However, God chose someone other than the firstborn several generations in a row - Abraham blessed Isaac(2nd), Isaac blessed Jacob(2nd), Jacob blessed Judah(4th). While it was the first time we had seen one other than the firstborn receive the blessing, it was not the only time - indicating that birth order does not make the difference; faith and God's plan does.
 
Knowing your enemy or something the enemy might come at you with is an excellent thing to do. Christians who study evolution are much better equipped to handle questions an evolutionist will come up with because they know the material better.
Bible said:
Colossians 4:6 (New International Version)
6 Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.
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The same thing goes for the Quran. Unless you know the weapons the enemy is going to use against you, you can't prepare yourself for the fight.
Bible said:
1 Peter 3:15 (New International Version)
15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,
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Durruck said:
Here's how it was explained to me: The Koran (Qu'ran) was all based around the teaching of Muhammad. He started as a peace-loving guy and progressively got more violent as he got older. The reason that it's confusing is because the Koran is arranged by length of writing, not in chronological order. However, whatever Muhammad said last is what stands, in the case of any contradictions.
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This. Basically there are two parts to the Qu'ran which most modern Muslims accept. The latter part is when the "death to the infidels" portions were written and some people point to the historical influence for where Mohammed was living at the time.

This is a great debate between Dave Hunt (whom I don't agree with on many many issues) and a professor of Islam. He points out many of the contradictions in the Qu'ran. A worthy watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-__wvI7uAE
 
If your purpose is evangelism then I wouldn't bother reading it. One does not need to know a lie to declare the truth. If you intend to do some apologetics (although that usually involves defending Christianity rather than defending Islam from claims that it is violent) then it might be of some value. If it takes away from your reading and studying the Bible then I would definitely not recommend reading it.
 
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I was interested in reading the Quran but never got around to it. Off the top of my head here are some simple things about Islam. I echo some things that where already posted here though...

1. If you are going to read the Quran you also have to be aware of the existence of the Hadith. The Quran is the direct words of Mohammed which he wrote and as such are the basis of Islam however in the Quran he says everything he says Muslims are supposed to do. With that in mind the Hadith is a collection of things Mohammed "supposedly" said as validated by multiple sources. So by the Quran's commandment Muslims must follow the Hadith too. Some of the faction splits in Islam are a result of Muslims believing different Hadiths to be true.

2. Mohammed achieved his ends through violent means. I believe some ado is made of him sparing some people who had earlier rejected him at Mecca but that was an exception to the rule. Those were is his own people, who he had lived with and who converted after being defeated. He was not merciful to others. As Jesus is our role model and the core of Christianity Mohammed is the Muslims'. There just isn't any getting around that so they are going to try to live their lives like him.

3. Islam was conceived to correct the corruptions that Judaism and Christianity had added to Allah's word. This is important because unlike Christianity or say Buddhism, which are juxtaposed by having different "truths", Islam exists to specifically correct us. It makes our job a whole lot harder when we have already been called out as being wrong by name. Muslims (if they are doing as they should) won't even read a Bible as it is considered an unclean book.

Edit: I don't want to give the impression their is nothing decent in the Quran and it only contains hate. They do have a "pillar" about giving to the poor and they aren't fond of homosexuality etc. . Like any evil lie Islam mixes in a little truth to fool people.
 
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The Mighty Gerbil said:
I was interested in reading the Quran but never got around to it.
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A friend and I used to debate about Christianity and Islam a couple years ago. He claimed to be a Christian and still does but I do question it. He knows more about Islam than his own faith. Anyways, I borrowed his English-translated Quran and read parts of it but never got around to reading all of it.

I do have a book recommendation though. It's called Muslim & Christian Beliefs: A Comparison by Bruce McDowell and Anees Zaka. It's an easy read small handbook that's only 64 pages long that really helped in getting a gist for Islam.

Also another book. This one isn't Christian but still provided a perspective on Islam from a woman's experience, Infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali

And I also believe our Christian God and Allah are not the same.
 
Naafiysh said:
I do have a book recommendation though. It's called Muslim & Christian Beliefs: A Comparison by Bruce McDowell and Anees Zaka. It's an easy read small handbook that's only 64 pages long that really helped in getting a gist for Islam.

Also another book. This one isn't Christian but still provided a perspective on Islam from a woman's experience, Infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali
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I've read Unveiling Islam and watched many Zola Levitt http://www.levitt.tv/ shows which where interesting (back when Zola was alive and doing it). Of course I've looked up the occasional Quran verse for conformation too.

Naafiysh said:
And I also believe our Christian God and Allah are not the same.
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Yup

Small rant: Also while this may be beyond the scope of this discussion what I've seen in popular media is such a strong refusal to call any foreign belief wrong. It's like this PBS show I watched that covered the Batton death march. You had the old war vet that was a POW there and the young historian "expert" on it. The expert emphasized in effect "I think the deaths were more a case of the Japanese not knowing how to handle and feed that many prisoners". To which the Vet said "I don't know much about that but I do know when we started I had a full canteen which they poured out in front of me, that my friend tripped, fell down and was bayoneted and that at night the Japanese held their bayonets out of their vehicles neck high so they'd kill us". When I see things like that it doesn't make me mad in the least at the Japanese. The Japanese had the belief you were dirt if you surrendered that doesn't constitute their entire culture, they can have good things about them too but that is what they believed and they lived by it. I really have to dowse my hatred not of the Japanese or the Muslims but of the supposedly "educated" college people. I've seen the exact same thing done with Native Americans and Muslims and they have the audacity to present themselves as un-biased and fair. It's like it's "cool" for them denounce Americans becuase they think it makes them "selfless". People on both sides are going to continue to die becuase of these "smart" people that's the point that gets me.

Bottom line there are evil beliefs and religions out there. That doesn't make the believer beyond changing nor are (probably) all his beliefs devoid of merit but if we are to fight these things the media needs to stop saying "everyone can get along". We can't get along when a belief says the other person must die. That belief must be denounced.
 
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My strong opinions against islam aside, I find there is nothing wrong about reading the opponent or anyone else's book, especially if it is just to understand the way they tick better. How can we reach out to them if we don't even know their core beliefs?
 
silverleaf said:
How can we reach out to them if we don't even know their core beliefs?
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By declaring the truth to them. I don't need to study every religion in order to evangelize or to help their physical needs. It may be of some benefit to study their beliefs, but to imply that we cannot reach out to someone if we don't know what they believe is incorrect.
 
There are a few key points to showing people that follow Islam that there are core, unanswered questions about their faith.

The Koran is essentially the 3rd book in a series for them. They consider the Pentateuch a Holy book. They consider Jesus a Good Prophet (a minor one, but still a prophet).

In the Pentateuch, a false prophet is to be stoned to death. Jesus is supposedly just a prophet, yet He claimed to be God ("Before Abraham was, I Am"; "No man can get to the Father but through the Son"). Either he was a blasphemer, or He is God.

Either Jesus (their "good minor prophet") is God or deserved to die. They cannot explain it away. My guess is that most Muslims will just disengage at this point in a discussion and walk away.

This is the same point that C.S. Lewis made - Jesus is either crazy, a liar, or God. (source)
 
Patriot said:
By declaring the truth to them. I don't need to study every religion in order to evangelize or to help their physical needs. It may be of some benefit to study their beliefs, but to imply that we cannot reach out to someone if we don't know what they believe is incorrect.
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True, it is possible, just more difficult I guess, and more likely to come across as rude and selfish, that you're teaching them about your religion without first taking the effort to learn about theirs. Possible maybe, and it does happen, but would help to build up trust if you know a little about theirs. Gota admit, I don't, beyond the very basics. And that is only because I live in a multicultural society with no real majority.
 
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I'm of the opinion that it definitely can help to know their beliefs to talk about in a loving way. I don't think any type of "heated debate" will go very far, but asking questions like, "hey, what do you think about ______" where _____ is a glaring inconsistency in their faith can help someone to question what they think if they are at least somewhat open minded.

Don't you find it kind of funny how in the Torah, it's all about God, and then in the Qu'ran, it's all about pleasing themselves? Their version of "paradise" means sleeping with 77 virgins for eternity. And by funny, I mean blasphemous.

Of course, there's this little gem:
Achmed: Wait, if I'm really dead, that means I get my 72 virgins!
Jeff Dunham: Did they say it would only be female virgins?
Achmed: Holy crap!
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