Sadam is gone

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Corpfox said:
Does anyone really care?

I sure don't.

Eventually, people die anyways.
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Americans and Iraqies care mostly becauase its the full end of an evil dictator and for Americans its a bit of closure to the war on terrorism a bit.
 
I love the fact that the Iraqi people danced in the streets once he hung. How evil do you have to be to cause people to do that when you die?
 
Atown said:
Americans and Iraqies care mostly becauase its the full end of an evil dictator and for Americans its a bit of closure to the war on terrorism a bit.
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Right...pretty sure this incites more hate towards America and between shias and sunnis themselves. Very dumb move. Not defending him, he deserved death, dont' think it was the right time and people to do it.
 
.se3ker. said:
Right...pretty sure this incites more hate towards America and between shias and sunnis themselves. Very dumb move. Not defending him, he deserved death, dont' think it was the right time and people to do it.
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Well once we get the idiots that suicide themselves in a public square out of hiding and rioting over this, we can bomb them with stealth fighters. Problem solved.
 
I care

Firstly I think it is important to point out that the majority of people in Iraq hated Saddam. His acts of cruelty were against every denomination in Iraq. Some (not all) of the problem we are having in Iraq is a result of the ethnic tensions that Saddam kept suppressed emerging since his loss of power. I believe that any violence that will be done in his name would pale in comparison to the damage that would be caused by him NOT being executed.

Having said that I'll move on to the heart of the matter I see no one in the world saying :( Everyone seems to be caught up in either the vengeance or justice routine. Really this is the sentiment I see on all capital punishment. What kind of nation are we going to see in Iraq when a lot of the people there would like to see Saddam tortured before his death? As Christians we believe "vengeance is the Lord's" not ours. As for justice if a person kills 2 people he cannot die twice. Even if a murder only kills one is taking another life going to make up for all that the victim could have done with their life? So once again true justice is deal by God and that is something no one can escape (unless someone pays that cost but that is another subject ;)

Don't get the idea I did not want Saddam executed I did. Neither for vengeance or justice but to stop him and to show others like him that they will not go unpunished (and no I don't believe simply locking them up would work all the time). Much like war itself capital punishment is one of those hard things that must be done.

I could elaborate on these issues and their Biblical support for pages. I will just end this saying I don't hate Saddam or any like him. I pity and pray for them. They were someone's children once and if we believe they were unsaved they are in Hell and nothing is worse than that.
 
The death of anyone is both sad and good, I get terribly confused on which way I should feel, we don't know what the heart of a man is, even what Saddam did to others, we do not know what the condition of his heart was at the time prior to his death, so do we celebrate another brother who has gone to be with our father or do we mourn for the loss of another soul to satan. I'm sorry, but to be glad he's gone just because of what he did is not right. If we are going to celebrate his death, celebrate it because you have faith that in the hour of his time, he confessed and was forgiven, if you don't believe that he did, then mourn the loss of another soul.
 
bob196045 said:
The death of anyone is both sad and good, I get terribly confused on which way I should feel, we don't know what the heart of a man is, even what Saddam did to others, we do not know what the condition of his heart was at the time prior to his death, so do we celebrate another brother who has gone to be with our father or do we mourn for the loss of another soul to satan. I'm sorry, but to be glad he's gone just because of what he did is not right. If we are going to celebrate his death, celebrate it because you have faith that in the hour of his time, he confessed and was forgiven, if you don't believe that he did, then mourn the loss of another soul.
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Say what?

Why would Hussein convert to Christianity seconds before his death? He wasn't a Christian, so this makes no sense whatsoever. In fact, seconds before his death, he held a Koran in his hands and prayed with a Muslim cleric.

Did you not watch any of his trial? The heart of this "man" was clearly evident up until the noose ended his life. He was a despicable despot that showed absolutely no remorse for any of the atrocities he committed.

Do you really mean to say that someone like Hussein could live a life like this, then 20 seconds before his death, say he's sorry to your God and go on to live out eternity in Heaven? :eek:
 
You know the answer to that as well as we do. If he truly, honestly believes in his heart that he did wrong, accepts Jesus, etc, then the answer is yes.

Although, with someone that has hardened their heart, as we assume Saddam to have done, any chance of a last minute change of heart is quite unlikely.
 
Right on Durruck. It doesn't matter what you have done Christ's perfect sacrifice pays for all sin. Any sin makes you imperfect. If you aren't perfect than you aren't worthy of perfection (heaven) and anything less cannot endure eternity.

As to how a person should feel that is a somewhat personal thing. We should not feel the hatred so many people do towards Saddam. I understand the Iraq people suffered more than I will ever know, however, the vengeance and hatred they feel towards Saddam will only lead to more suffering. I would go as far as to say to delight in the pain or suffering of any living creature is evil. I personally feel good that the proper actions were taken by his execution but feel sorrow at the loss of any life. This is somewhat like a hunters perspective on hunting you must eat to live but you don't have fun torturing animals. If he had somehow not got the death penalty I would have felt sick to my stomach. We have so many travesties of justice (I use justice for lack of a better word) in this world already. To have one of that proportion with Iraq trying to become a democracy would certainly put a black mark their future. I also believe that Iraq is not ready to become a democracy and that it should be occupied for a long time but that is another loooong subject.

It is best not to dwell on the matter to much though "let the dead bury the dead and care for the living" don'tcha know :)
 
Dark Virtue said:
Do you really mean to say that someone like Hussein could live a life like this, then 20 seconds before his death, say he's sorry to your God and go on to live out eternity in Heaven? :eek:
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This IS a basic tenant of the message of Grace.

Acts 16:31 says "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved -- you and your household." It does not say "Believe in the Lord Jesus and have a spotless track record your entire life and you will make it, otherwise it's the pit for you."

Think of it this way: Let us pretend that you have a young son, who you love. However, over the course of his life, your son begins to spurn you and to make choices -- consistantly and intentionally -- that make him more and more and more distant from you. He leaves the home at a very young age and continues walking this path away from you. He tries to break contact with you; he disowns any relationship with you; he does things that you know and you taught him were wrong; he falls into crime; eventually he is convicted of multiple murders and sentenced to death.

While he's waiting for the chamber, he spends a lot of time thinking about his life and where he went wrong. Finally, he asks you to come and see him. Tearfully he explains that he now realizes that he has been horribly wrong all of his life, and all he wants now is to know that he is still your son, even as he enters the chamber.

So do you let all the evil he's done stand in his way, or do you tell him you love him? Obviously, the consequences for his actions still stand. But do you act like a parent or like a judge?

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Of course, belief in Jesus is not a get-out-of-jail-free-card. If someone who was to be executed suddenly spat out the "sinners prayer" as some sort of fire insurance without really believing in Jesus at all... I don't think it would have the same effect. But, as a fallible human being, I can not be the judge of that.

But if that same person looked back at his life wondering where it went wrong, and came to the conclusion that it was his rejection of God, and cried out to God for mercy, the Bible tells us repeatedly that God would show that mercy.

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I don't believe Saddam did that... I think DV is right about him being unrepentant to his grave. I think it is a shame. But I also think that God sees it as one of his children choosing to walk a path of rebellion and hatred of God and of humanity until his final breath. I don't think God is angry with Saddam, but rather saddened by his actions and his stubbornness.
 
Durruck said:
You know the answer to that as well as we do. If he truly, honestly believes in his heart that he did wrong, accepts Jesus, etc, then the answer is yes.
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Just wondering...what about Christians that have done wrong and don't repent because, in their eyes, they have done nothing wrong, and therefore, are not in need of repentance?

What about the concept of justice? How do you explain someone that could spend their whole lives being cruel, breaking the commandments, etc, yet recant on their deathbed and not paying for their crimes?

Although, with someone that has hardened their heart, as we assume Saddam to have done, any chance of a last minute change of heart is quite unlikely.
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Again, the bigger problem was that he wasn't Christian. He had no reason to convert since he believed in another religion.
 
Neirei, I don't think you're analogy was spot on.

Try this one on for size...

A man goes on a crime spree...he rapes, he murders, he steals. He racks up a series of unprecedented lawlessness.

He's caught and brought before the judge, where he has an epiphany...he has true remorse, he honestly, heartfeltly, feels bad about what he did.

What you are saying is that the judge would understand he feels bad, and would let him go.

What I am saying is that no matter how bad he feels, he still committed crimes and needs to face the repercussions for that.

Think about the women he raped, those who have no possessions due to his theft, families that had members taken away from them. Where is the justice? Can you imagine running into the man who raped and murdered your sister in heaven?
 
not exactly, DV. Don't confuse earthly and spiritual punishments.

The Bible also tell us that we still fall under the rule of man on earth, but that our eternal souls are judged by God. We still have to make restitution to those around us for our wrongdoings. The judge's job is to follow man's law and sentence the criminal as the law demands.

God, however, changed His law with Jesus' sacrifice, so that that we need not hang on a cross for our sins. We don't slaughter and burn animals for blood sacrifices. We don't burn crops for grain sacrifices, or destroy wine for drink offerings. Jesus went to the cross to pay our spiritual debts, not our earthly debts.
 
Durruck said:
not exactly, DV. Don't confuse earthly and spiritual punishments.

The Bible also tell us that we still fall under the rule of man on earth, but that our eternal souls are judged by God. We still have to make restitution to those around us for our wrongdoings. The judge's job is to follow man's law and sentence the criminal as the law demands.

God, however, changed His law with Jesus' sacrifice, so that that we need not hang on a cross for our sins. We don't slaughter and burn animals for blood sacrifices. We don't burn crops for grain sacrifices, or destroy wine for drink offerings. Jesus went to the cross to pay our spiritual debts, not our earthly debts.
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Can you take that and direct it toward this thread?

You said, "The Bible also tell us that we still fall under the rule of man on earth, but that our eternal souls are judged by God." The hypothetical situation I presented is in correlation to what people are telling me in this thread. You are making it sound like Saddam Hussein would be peacefully in heaven right now if he had just repented and claimed Christ on his deathbed. Where is the spiritual justice there? What judgement would God impose in that situation?
 
Dark Virtue said:
Where is the spiritual justice there? What judgement would God impose in that situation?
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The punishment for any sin, because there are no varying degree's of sin in the eyes of God, is death. Because of Christ's sacrifice he bought and paid for our sin debt in the eyes of God. Therefore if Saddam had truly repented and accepted what Christ had already bought and paid for, then YES he would be in heaven. The judgment has already been passed for any sin, death and eternal separation from the Most High God. It is as simple as black and white, don't make it out to be something that it is not.
 
Arkanjel said:
The punishment for any sin, because there are no varying degree's of sin in the eyes of God, is death. Because of Christ's sacrifice he bought and paid for our sin debt in the eyes of God. Therefore if Saddam had truly repented and accepted what Christ had already bought and paid for, then YES he would be in heaven. The judgment has already been passed for any sin, death and eternal separation from the Most High God. It is as simple as black and white, don't make it out to be something that it is not.
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I'm not trying to make it out to be anything, I'm trying to understand your concept of judgement.

It sounds overly simplistic to me. What you're saying is that you could live your life however you want, no matter who you hurt in the process and at the end, say you're sorry and boom, all your misdeeds are wiped clean and you've got a free ticket to heaven.

Again, it doesn't make sense to me. Hitler was a self proclaimed Christian. Had he cried for forgiveness before his death, you're saying Christ would welcome him in heaven with open arms...yet the millions of innocent Jews that died because of him would be burning in hell because they weren't Christian.
 
If Hitler truly, honestly, completely believed that Jesus took his place on the cross, then yes... but you're trying to compare apples and oranges. If those "innocent Jews" never repented their sins to God...THE God, then they were just as guilty as any other unrepenting sinner, even Hitler.

As Arkanjel alluded, whether it be a little white lie or genocide, a sin is a sin. There is no sin bad enough to make God turn you away if you ask for His forgiveness.... nor is there a sin so minor that it can go unrepented to the Lord. It's not a sliding scale; it's an absolute: Sin = death and eternal damnation. unless you accept that Jesus took the burden of your sin upon Himself.
 
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