Keero
Tribe of Judah Membership Administrator
My bad on the last one, I was tired. Please vote and give your thoughts on Crits in the toj.cc server. 
Should Crits stay or Go on the server?
- Thread starter Keero
- Start date
Hmmm that's a difficult question for me Keero. See as you do better in the game the odds of one getting a crit are increased which I think is wrong (listen to the commentary on err I think it was gravepit?). Valves idea is that this creates a positive reinforcement loop that makes players want to keep playing. To me it just seems terribly unfair even if its only a small probability alteration. I am also not a fan of semi "random" gameplay crits create but then damage can already vary significantly without crits. On the flip side the play balance of the game changes when only spies and pyros can do instant kills (I believe the pyro backburner crits cannot be disabled). This makes it almost de-powering to the other classes to not have crits. In the end though I am for having crits enabled because most servers have them as far as I know. I like to practice under conditions that are considered the norm.
I do (slightly) prefer the party balloons mod to the regular gore though. It's true the balloons make it a bit easier to see damage but I just feel better with them and the "comical" death part remains funny enough.
I do (slightly) prefer the party balloons mod to the regular gore though. It's true the balloons make it a bit easier to see damage but I just feel better with them and the "comical" death part remains funny enough.
Crits ruin the gameplay experience for me. It's as simple as that.
If I'm chugging along as a Medic, having healed several of my teammates in combat and heading toward the capture point, and I get hit by a crit rocket out of nowhere at full health and die, that's frustrating enough to inspire me to quit the match and go play on my DS to calm down. If I wanted to die suddenly and without warning, I would go play Counter-Strike or Battlefield 1942.
I can not think of any other deathmatch game where one rocket can kill a player at full health.
From a design perspective, random events have no place in a competitive online shooter game. Shooters are, ideally, based on skill. Introducing random events into a game based on skill may appeal to new players who score a lucky critical on a better player, but the system is going to alienate competitive players in the long run.
And when I say "competitive," I don't mean players who play in clans against other clans in a formal match setting. I mean any player who takes the game seriously and plays to help bring his or her team to victory, whether it's on a pub server or in a scrim.
Criticals belong in MMO games, not in shooters.
If I'm chugging along as a Medic, having healed several of my teammates in combat and heading toward the capture point, and I get hit by a crit rocket out of nowhere at full health and die, that's frustrating enough to inspire me to quit the match and go play on my DS to calm down. If I wanted to die suddenly and without warning, I would go play Counter-Strike or Battlefield 1942.
I can not think of any other deathmatch game where one rocket can kill a player at full health.
From a design perspective, random events have no place in a competitive online shooter game. Shooters are, ideally, based on skill. Introducing random events into a game based on skill may appeal to new players who score a lucky critical on a better player, but the system is going to alienate competitive players in the long run.
And when I say "competitive," I don't mean players who play in clans against other clans in a formal match setting. I mean any player who takes the game seriously and plays to help bring his or her team to victory, whether it's on a pub server or in a scrim.
Criticals belong in MMO games, not in shooters.
Glitch
New Member
ok.... I voted disable...
But what about the the bone saw, medic alternative uber, and the back burner.
I'm against crits except for the above weapons.
But what about the the bone saw, medic alternative uber, and the back burner.
I'm against crits except for the above weapons.
Critzkrieg and Backburner function as designed. An activated Critzkrieg empowers its target to fire 100% criticals and Backburner delivers critical damage from behind.
Melee weapons do not crit.
Backstabs and headshots are still instant kills.
Please bear in mind I said it's a difficult question for me because I really don't have feelings either way. In this case whatever makes everyone happy is fine with me. I pretty much agree with everyone's points I just skew towards the crits because I am used to it. About the only thing I'd add is you can get saved by getting a crit just like you can get killed by one. Of course the upgraded needle gun medics use can't crit so it doesn't apply to that.
Keero
Tribe of Judah Membership Administrator
I'm in the same boat as Gerbil. I do find Crits enjoyable, but I also know it frustrates other people. ...What about having crits disabled when it's just mainly toj.cc guys on the server and enabling them when we get a lot of pubbers? Or have an automatic vote for crits when a match starts? We could still attract folks and yet have the option there if the majority wants to play without crits. Just an idea.
Shagz
New Member
I'm with Tek, I hate coming out of a spawn, running to a capture point only to eat a single crit rocket and enter the cue again. Very frustrating.
I don't really like the idea of crits increasing with you already doing better, but I definitely love them.
I can see the annoyance, but that you can use that argument with anything. I don't like walking across the map to get sniped. Or backstabbed. Or stickied. Or obliterated by a sentry. Or die... No body likes dying and having to take the walk of shame, but it is part of the game. And when it is something that you can do yourself, just play soldier if crit rockets annoy you so you have them too.
I just don't see the sense in complaining about something that you can do too.
-note I did say I don't necessarily like the crit distribution, purely random would be best, and even the exact opposite would be cool. It would help those doing bad do better so they continue to play. Is there a way to adjust it? gotta be, I know most orange servers do at least...
I can see the annoyance, but that you can use that argument with anything. I don't like walking across the map to get sniped. Or backstabbed. Or stickied. Or obliterated by a sentry. Or die... No body likes dying and having to take the walk of shame, but it is part of the game. And when it is something that you can do yourself, just play soldier if crit rockets annoy you so you have them too.
I just don't see the sense in complaining about something that you can do too.
-note I did say I don't necessarily like the crit distribution, purely random would be best, and even the exact opposite would be cool. It would help those doing bad do better so they continue to play. Is there a way to adjust it? gotta be, I know most orange servers do at least...
In any iteration of Mario Kart, the players lagging behind get better items to give them a chance to catch up and stay in the game.
This is not Mario Kart.
In other words, this is not a game for casual gamers. It's certainly more forgiving than Counter-Strike, but not so forgiving as World of Warcraft (where time invested trumps skill, not vice versa) and Mario Kart.
You can play Mario Kart with your little brother, your little sister, your mother, your father, your wife, your girlfriend--whoever. TF2 is not as accessible as Mario Kart, simply by virtue of being a first-person shooter.
To drive the analogy home: Crits rockets = blue shells. And I'm not talking about blue shells in Mario Kart 64. I'm talking about those miserable exploding atrocities in Mario Kart Wii that make you want to throw your controller through your TV. Those blue shells.
But, even as frustrating as blue shells are, crit rockets are even more frustrating. Why? Because I play Mario Kart Wii to have fun. If I place first, okay, cool. I play TF2 to have and help my team win.
I still hold that random events--even if they are not completely random--have no place in a first-person shooter.
Imagine loading up Starcraft and finding out that one of the enemy's marines randomly starts doing double damage. Would a real-time strategy game with random events be respected as a platform for competitive play? No. Then why should we look at a first-person shooter any differently?
This is not Mario Kart.
In other words, this is not a game for casual gamers. It's certainly more forgiving than Counter-Strike, but not so forgiving as World of Warcraft (where time invested trumps skill, not vice versa) and Mario Kart.
You can play Mario Kart with your little brother, your little sister, your mother, your father, your wife, your girlfriend--whoever. TF2 is not as accessible as Mario Kart, simply by virtue of being a first-person shooter.
To drive the analogy home: Crits rockets = blue shells. And I'm not talking about blue shells in Mario Kart 64. I'm talking about those miserable exploding atrocities in Mario Kart Wii that make you want to throw your controller through your TV. Those blue shells.
But, even as frustrating as blue shells are, crit rockets are even more frustrating. Why? Because I play Mario Kart Wii to have fun. If I place first, okay, cool. I play TF2 to have and help my team win.
I still hold that random events--even if they are not completely random--have no place in a first-person shooter.
Imagine loading up Starcraft and finding out that one of the enemy's marines randomly starts doing double damage. Would a real-time strategy game with random events be respected as a platform for competitive play? No. Then why should we look at a first-person shooter any differently?
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Sarugon
Member
My vote goes against crits, I don't think that kind of luck should be a factor in an fps.
Keero
Tribe of Judah Membership Administrator
Crits may be disabled, but boy do I ever love using that Kritzkrieg. I die quickly as Medic and that's why I use that pretty much all the time now. Ubering just takes forever (especially if you uber a spy ;P). Would you guys still call that fair though, to use something like the Axt or KK?
I'm not fond of the crits-based unlockables, but at least they (unlike standard crits) are based solely on a player's actions, not a random event.
As such, I haven't made any effort to figure out how to disable unlockable weapons and I don't plan to.
Annath
New Member
I love the crit based weapons. They, unlike random crits, actually invoke just as much strategy as any other weapon.
Shagz
New Member
Agreed. Random crits = nay, Earned crits = yay.
haha, interesting way of putting it... as "earned" could mean a lot of things... Including playing well recently(as is the standard setting for random)... I'm guessing you mean "completed necessary achievements to obtain."