Should I be a Christian?

[Atown]

well eon at that point i beleive very few humans were alive during the first part so i He could only really concentrate on a small area, and the Bible was written by people who were inspired by God and i dont think God would inspire just anyone back then

 

[Chaoswraith]

Quote[/b] ]Chaos, I know you didn't write that, so I hope you won't take offense

Hey, don't ever worry about offending me.  I know we are just presenting opposing viewpoints, and even if I had written that I would know you are not attacking me personally.  I never take offense in a debate, because I wouldn't want the person I'm debating with to be as trivial, either.

I'll do some more research and get back to you, hopefully with something a little more slimmed down and solid.  Thanks for the criticism!

I am of the opinion that it is a good thing when someone challenges me in my faith.  How else am I going to grow in my understanding of what I believe than by proving it?  How else can my faith be hardened except through fire?  I am always open to new ideas, and I never present my word as iron-clad-infallible truth.  With recent questions on Genesis 6, I was able to redefine what I believed about the 120 years subject.  Before being questioned, I believed that's how long man's lifespan was limited to, as well.  Now I know I was wrong.

Anyways, thanks so much for the criticism, I'm really enjoying it so far!

 

[woot]

Hey, corp, i know i'm kinda late for this forum, but i never got a chance to check the forums out..hehe..but i'm back.

Well, if you read Paul's letters, especially 1Corinthians and 1Thessalonians, it will give you some idea of what and how it feels to be a Christian, if you aren't sure what your going to experience. Remember, that Christ suffered for our iniquities, that we may lead a peacful life. If you want to become a Christian, take it slowly, seriously, and think about it.
I'm glad if you are thinking to become a Christian, i cannot say yes become one or no dont, its totally your and God's decision, if you want to build that special bond of faith between you and him.
May His light shine in your paths of darkness, and May He lead you in the way of righteousness.
-.fls.woOt

 

[Eon]

Atown, I don't think you believe either of those explanations any more than I do!

Come on man, this is your kin we're talking about! Why were they so beneath notice that they don't rate a single scripture mention? Especially in prophecy stuff later? Like Revelations, for example.

 

[Atown]

lol yes i do believe my own posts and believe in em. also God has His own plans. at this point everything ive ever questioned has been answerd in the Bible. if the Bible was written any different in any areas then i doubt i would be a Christian

 

[Eon]

Well then, if you're right and God did decide that only one bunch of people on the planet were worth saving, until of course the Romans became the expedient choice after the Jews burned out, then it's no wonder that Europeans are rejecting Christianity in record numbers.

 

[Malohaut]

How do we know God didn't have a relationship with people on the other side of the world? How do we know that Ancient China didn't first worship the one God? How do we know that many nations turned from the worship of God to follow their own pagan ways like Israel did many times? By looking at the writings and tablets of other civilizations. Ancient China at one time believed in a single God. The American Indians had their spirits and the India Indians had their gods.

The bible does not explain all religions of all the world, and it does not explain all peoples. That account stopped after the Tower of Babel, when the languages were confused and people spread out throughout the earth.

So since then, it was the promise God made to one man, Abraham, to make him into a mighty nation because of his faithfulness to God. And the bible speaks of this nation and how God kept his promise of trying to take care of the nation.

In the days of Noah, nobody seemed to care for God except Noah. If you had 50 guests in your house: 49 of them were taking over the fridge and the couch and the bathroom and pushing you aside, but 1 actually seemed to care and bring you drinks and listen to you and spend time with you, who would you want to stick around? The 49 who just want what you have and push you aside, or the 1 who is acting like a friend and wanting to be there for you.

Well just because God is an all powerful being doesn't mean he doesn't have feelings. The people in Noah's time really hurt him because they rejected him and worshipped their own sin. But Noah was the one who remained faithful and loved God. So even though God destroyed the world as He had said, He saved Noah and his family. (Which a lot of ancient, non-Israel religions actually speak of a deluge and 8 people being saved from it.)

So after Noah's day, what's to say the same thing didn't happen? People just went about doing their own thing, but there were a few who actually loved God. And God tested this through Abraham. "Give me your only son." And Abraham was willing to give his one and only son to God, even if it meant his line would end and he would have no other. God really loved this faithfulness, and at the last minute, stopped Abraham from giving his son. (Perhaps that is why God gave us His one and only son because he really loved how Abraham was willing to do that and God wanted to show the world how much He loved us.) So, God promised Abraham to make his descendants a mighty nation as numerous as the stars in heaven.

So the bible, like it did with adam and eve, and like it did with noah, follows the promise of God and His fulfillment of that promise.

 

[Mahfrot]

Well said. When I became a new Christian I always wondered why aliens weren't mentioned or people from South America. Great answer.

 

[Malohaut]

Funny you should mention that Mahfrot.  I've sometimes wondered if God did make life on other planets and had different interactions with them.  Just because the bible doesn't mention that doesn't mean it can't possibly exist.

I've always wanted to create Christian science fiction, like to have a starship exploring the universe, or a group of lost scientists exploring different dimensions, a kind of creative way to come of with different ways that God and his creation interact.  Like a Christian Star Trek or Sliders.

But I digress.


*edit*

Now that I think about it. If God created the earth and the universe on day 1, then chances are, He only did his Sapien gardening on this one planet.

 

[Eon]

Well, you make a strong case for why the bible only mentioned the Israelites - but you make no case at all as to why the bible should be the holy book for European peoples.

If it's by Jews and for Jews then let them keep it - surely we should have our own version kicking around here somewhere. And so should the Chinese. And the antipodean aboriginals.

Funny actually, because we DO all have our versions of a holy book - it's just that they don't mention Yahweh. So we find ourselves in this position where we're asking ourselves - is there a difference between God and Yahweh. After all - you guys are polytheists as much as I am, with your trinity package deal...

 

[Malohaut]

The case I had made was in main regards to the old testament, as it speaks of the history of the world to the history of Israel. Sin abounds, even in Israel, and God promises to raise a Messiah to save the people from the sins.

Isaiah 49:6
"It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."

Deuteronomy 18:15-18
The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me (Moses) from among your own brothers. You must listen to him. … The Lord said to me … "I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him."

Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and [*] will call him Immanuel.
* either "he" or "they"

Genesis 49:10
The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his.

Micah 5:2
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."

Isaiah 40:3
A voice of one calling: "In the desert prepare the way for the Lord; make straight in the wilderness a highway for our God. Every valley shall be raised up, every mountain and hill made low; the rough ground shall become level, the rugged places a plain. And the glory of the Lord will be revealed, and all mankind together will see it. For the mouth of the Lord has spoken."


etc. When Jesus came, His method of coming fulfilled these prophecies and was and is believed to be the promised Messiah. But Jesus wasn't just concerned with the jews only, but with everybody.

Mark 2 : 16 - 17 "When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the "sinners" and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: "Why does he eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?" On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."


Acts 11 : 1-2, 18 "The apostles and the brothers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God. So when Peter went up to Jerusalem, the circumcised believers criticized him 3and said, "You went into the house of uncircumcised men and ate with them." . . . When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life."


Galations 3 : 28-29 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."


John 3 : 16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."


God loves the world. He's always loved the world. But He knows that Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" This was shown during the days of Noah, Moses, Jesus, and even today. All God wants, and all God ever wanted was for you to love Him back. He knows we're not perfect and we sometimes do some pretty stupid things. (Myself definatly included) So He has made a way to obtain forgiveness through a promise He made to send a Savior.

All are one in Christ, there is no prejudice. Christ's teachings were not just for the jews, but for the non-jews as well (Gentiles). Jesus came to save the world, not just the jews. That is why we, as Christians, spread this news. It is God's calling for all people of all the Earth to love Him. It should be a holy book for Europeans, Africans, Australians, and any other human being that lives on this Earth. Christ came for all, and if you belong to Christ, descendant of Abraham, then you are, in God's eyes, of Abraham's seed and are eligable for God's love, guidance, and protection. It is what we call the 'good news' that we seek to share with everybody.

 

[Malohaut]

The doctrine of the Trinity—one God, three Persons—is
a mystery. It is a core belief of the Christian
Church, and we celebrate it in a special way on
Trinity Sunday (May 26 this year) yet it has proven
difficult for even the greatest theologians to
explain. But there is a reason for that!

Take a look at a bunny rabbit. Awww. Isn't it so
cuute? But if you ask it to recite shakespeare in
french, it will just sit there, twitch its nose, and
wonder where the nearest carrot is. This innocent
little creature has no idea how a car works or what
kinds of languages we speak. This rabbit has no idea
that we are on a ball floating in space or that too
much sun exposure may give you cancer. Its mind is
limited to knowing where the food and shelter are, and
how to run away when trouble comes.

In the same way, our knowledge is extremely limited
when it comes to the kingdom of God. God's world is a
lot more colorful and detailed and the laws of physics
that are there are much greater and more complex than
anything we can imagine. We know that things usually
start and end somewhere, birth, death, or even just go
sour, yet God has no beginning or ending. We know by
the laws of physics that invisibility is impossible,
yet we cannot see God or His heavenly host.
Cryogenics (the study of bringing dead people back to
life by freezing their bodies until cures can be
found) has failed where Jesus has triumphed. So there
are many things about God and about the kingdom of
heaven that we have a minor understanding of, but we
will never fully comprehend until we gain new senses
for these new and wonderful things.

So if we cannot understandthe Trinity, how do we know
there is one? Simple, because the bible tells us so.
The actual word "trinity" does not appear in the
Bible. The Bible does, however, portray God as being
made up of three persons. It says that the Father is
God, Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God (see the
verses listed below.) There are also two places in the
Bible where God refers to Himself in the plural form.
Gen. 1:26 says, "Let us create man in our own image."
Isa. 6:8 says, "Also, I heard the voice of the Lord
saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?"


Although the Bible says that the Father, Jesus, and
the Holy Spirit are God, it also clearly says that
there is only one God



Verses saying Jesus is God:

Heb. 1:8
God the Father called the Son "God."
Isa. 9:6
The "child" is called the "Mighty God."
Mt. 1:23,

Is. 7:14
Jesus is called Immanuel, which means "God with us."
John. 1:1
Jesus (the "Word") is called "God."
1 Tim. 3:16
Paul said Jesus was God "manifested in the flesh."
Col. 2:8.9
Paul said Jesus was the "fullness of the Godhead
bodily.
John. 20:28
Thomas said to Jesus, "…my God."
Titus 2:13
Paul called Jesus "the great God."
Phil. 2:5,6
Paul said Jesus didn’t feel it was wrong to be
considered "equal with God."
John 5:18
The Jews wanted to kill Jesus because He was "making
Himself equal with God."
John 10:30
Jesus said, "I and the Father are one."
Gen. 1:1;Col. 1:16
The Bible said God created all things and that Jesus
created all things.
Mic. 5:2
The messiah (Jesus) had always been in existence.
Isa. 44:6; Rev. 1:2,8, 11,13
God claimed to be the "First and the Last." So did
Jesus. God clearly states that He is the only savior.
The Bible also says Jesus is our savior.



Verses saying the Father is God:

John. 8:41 "The only Father we have is God Himself."
Eph. 4:6 " … one God and Father of all …"




Verses saying the Holy Spirit is God:

Acts 5:3,4 "… you have lied to the Holy Spirit … you
have not lied to men, but to God."
Acts 28:25,26 Referring to Isaiah 6:9,10, Peter said
the "Holy Spirit" spoke to the prophet Isaiah. In the
book of Isaiah, it says the "Lord" spoke to the
prophet Isaiah.
1 Cor. 3:16 "Don’t you know you are God’s temple and
that God’s Spirit lives in you?"




Verses saying there is only one God:

Mk. 12:32 "You are right in saying God is one and
there is no other but him."
Mk. 12:21 "The Lord our God, the Lord is one."
1 Tim. 2:5 "For there is one God …"
1 Cor. 8:4 " … and there is no God but one."
Gal. 3:20 " … but God is one."
James 2:19 "You believe there is one God. Good! …"
Ps. 86:10 " … you alone are God."
Deut. 6:4,5 "The Lord our God, the Lord is one …"
Isa. 44:8 "Is there another God besides me?"
Isa. 45:21 "There is no God apart from me … there is
none but me."
Isa. 45:22 "For I am God and there is no other."
Isa. 46:9 "I am God, and there is no other"
Isa. 45:5 "I am the Lord, and there is no other;
apart from me there is no God."
Isaiah 45:18 "I am the Lord, and there is no other."
Mal. 2:10 "Did not one God create us?"


That is why I believe in Trinty, because God says so
in the bible. And even though it appears to
contradict itself, 3 gods in 1 god, it is a truth that
is beyond our present understanding.

One last thing. Suppose somebody calls this argument
bogus. Suppose that they thing that if there is a
real God, He should exist in a realm we can see and
understand him. Well, look at this:
a one dimensional object is a line. Length
a two dimensional object is a square. length width
a three dimensional object is a cube. length width
height
That's all right? Nope. Scientists have actually
discovered 4th dimensional objects!
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/7997/whatis4d.html
So if there exists a 4th measurable dimension that we
are just now discovering, thing of how many more
dimensions that exist that we do not know about. That
is why we cannot see God, we don't fully grasp the
multi-dimensional world that He exists in.



Does this help, or did I lose you somewhere? Or is
this more of an answer than you were looking for? Heh



Next time, if you're interested, I'll try to explain why we believe Christianity to be the only religion and why the others may not be valid.

 

[Atown]

wow impressive Malohaut. and i will help with the validity of other religions as much as i can as well

 

[Avesther]

Quote[/b] ]Scientists have actually discovered 4th dimensional objects

I read a discussion (I can't remember where) on Genesis 1. This guy studied the chapter and determined there are 10 dimension, 4 revealed and 6 not revealed. String theory states the same, 4 known dimension, 6 spatial dimension. The difference is that String theory is relatively new and the scholar did his research in the 1600's.

 

[Eon]

Everything is a fourth dimensional object - because the fourth dimension is Chronological Progression.

 

[Mahfrot]

Malohaut, I sure hope you're pursuing an M.Div. or something similar...sounds to me like you've probably got the beginning of a doctoral thesis floating around in your head somewhere.

I'd be interested in reading the studies concerning 6 hidden dimensions...

 

[Chaoswraith]

Not necesarrily, Eon.  What the 4-dimensional objects are that Malo has mentioned are actual, spatial, physical 4-dimensional objects.  I read through that link you gave, Mal, and it blew my mind!  That totally works when explaining the existence of God in a higher dimensional plane.  If we hovered over a two-dimensional world and watched everything that went on in it, only touching/intersecting it when we needed to and influencing the events in such a manner, it would be completely unexplainable by the inhabitants of the two-dimensional world.

Quote[/b] ]Another big misconception is time travel. People confuse the words light speed, 4th dimension, time, space, gravity. While Einstein considered that the time is the effect of our 3d universe passing through the fourth dimension, it is not correct to make assumptions regarding the ability to "time travel". Einstein furthermore regarded time as being relative so without absolute time, time travel (in the conventional sense) becomes even more questionable. The point I am trying to make is that time travel would not consist of a stroll down 4th dimension lane.

Time travel has more to do with the relationship of space and time regarding our speed. Theoretically, Einstein said, if we could go at the speed of light, while our speed is not infinite to an observer, that we would have the effect of going any amount of distance in an instant. The problem with overcoming this is that as matter's speed approaches the speed of light, it gains in mass, ultimately making is even harder to go faster. Some people like to regard this as nature's way of preventing us from messing with her laws.

 

[Eon]

Everything is four dimensional! Height, Width, Depth and Duration.

Now, I'm not sure where the others come in - I guess I'd have to read up. The only problem is that at this point a lot of Physics starts sounding like an excuse for itself...

 

[LionOfJudah]

but isnt time man made?

 

[Eon]

Nope, everything has a duration - it's just how we measure it that is man made.