The GodHead

A good analogy I READ was this:

Like you:
God provides many roles at the same time as you do.

first, you are a father when needed for your kid, but then you change roles to be a husband for your wife.

same person, yet different roles.
 
I'll take that job MA, and I would be highly honored to work with a minister that I am certain God will bless!
I think when you consider all the Scripture's the Three are one. Yet, they are separate. Jesus prayed to the Father. The Holy Spirit came upon Jesus like a dove, all the while God was speaking from Heaven. At least two of them were speaking together in the beginning when they said they would make man in "our" image. We have the Trinity mentioned in the middle of verses on the marriage relationship. The two are one flesh, but the wife submits herself unto her husband, giving him the authority. It is a mystery to me, too. Then consider His omniscience. He is in Heaven, yet He is with us. It seems each part of the Godhead do a separate job. I think trying to think Spiritual/infinite thoughts with a finite mind is next to impossible! I just don't have the capacity to think on it, other than having faith that it just is! Things like God knowing how many hairs are on our head, for example. The loss and regrowth are constantly changing! There are so many things of the Bible that I just don't know how that they are possible, but they are! He says we see now through a glass darkly...but then...!

How about grabbing a verse one by one and discuss them?
 
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In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. John 1:1-4

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14

No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. John 1:18

I'm searching at the moment for the verse in the old testament that says God is the only one who can forgive sin. Because Jesus clearly forgives sin, which makes him God.

God reveals himself to us in different ways. The glory of God the Father is too magnificent for us to behold, so he revealed himself to us in the Son. When the prophecies of the messiah were fulfilled and the Lamb was sacrificed for us, the Son ascended. The Spirit of God was then sent to dwell within us. To give us power and guidance. God is omnipotent, he is all powerful. He lives within all Christians, and he is everywhere. God being in heaven and sending a dove (the Holy Spirit) to light on Jesus should not surprise us or make us question the oneness of the triune God. Isn't he within all Christians at once? If you are a true Christian then God dwells within you, but he also dwells within me. God is never in just one place at a time.
 
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My good friend Anthony,

Yes, we are friends and I phileo you very much as a precious brother and friend. I don't mind you picking my post apart at all. For I admit that I am a flawed individual, and I encourage everyone to test what is said among the scriptures for truth and clarity. I know you're not being mean but seeking the truth, and I love you for that.

I do admit that it is possible to sense the unseen. Unclean spirits can be "felt" many times, and psychics can communicate with deceptional demons. However, despite this ability to sense their presence, we cannot fully perceive exactly what they look like in their invisible forms, nor how they move. Scientists with all their equipment have yet to find heaven or even build a device that allows them to see angels or even God Himself. Not only that, but look at Ezekiel. He got to see God face to face, but still had great difficulty describing Him. Ezekiel 1 : 26-28 "Above the expanse over their heads was what looked like a throne of sapphire, and high above on the throne was a figure like that of a man. I saw that from what appeared to be his waist up he looked like glowing metal, as if full of fire, and that from there down he looked like fire; and brilliant light surrounded him. Like the appearance of a rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the radiance around him. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD . When I saw it, I fell facedown, and I heard the voice of one speaking." He didn't say, "I saw a man sitting on a throne who glowed brightly" He said he saw a figure like a man who looked like glowing metal and light surrounded him like an appearance of a rainbow. He was doing his best to use earthly terms to describe something he had never before seen. Even Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3:10-12 “You are Israel's teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?" It is biblical men's attempt to describe heavenly visions as well as this passage combined with the fact that today's scientists cannot find and measure heaven nor God nor angels nor demons with all of their scientific equipment that leads me to believe that we know and understand so little about the world that God exists in. Even Job admitted in Job 26:12-14 that our understanding of God is extremely inferior. (Using the amplified version) "He stills or stirs up the sea by His power, and by His understanding He smites proud Rahab. By His breath the heavens are garnished; His hand pierced the [swiftly] fleeing serpent. Yet these are but [a small part of His doings] the outskirts of His ways or the mere fringes of His force, the faintest whisper of His voice! Who dares contemplate or who can understand the thunders of His full, magnificent power?" Yes, we are to seek God, and we are given spiritual eyes to 'see.' John 3:3 "In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." But feeling God in your heart and understanding the kingdom of God is far different then physically seeing the kingdom and knowing exactly where it is and what it looks like. (And keep in mind that the Revelation description of the pearly gates and of the golden streets is not of heaven, but of the new Jerusalem that was brought down from heaven. Revelation 21:10 "And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God."

True, Jesus did not teach us to pray in the name of the three. But as Marcylene so wonderfully shared and corrected, He commanded us to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 28:19. Paul recognized that Jesus was saying to Baptize in God's name. 1 Corinthians 13 "Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul?" Jesus was crucified for us, and so we baptize in His name. And Christ is not divided. We know that there are the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit and Jesus even admitted this. And I know you're not disputing the difference in personalities here. But the bible also mentioned many times that there is one God. Now maybe this can be translated loosely as there is one Godhead, but until tonight, I don't have the access to the original Hebrew/Greek to see what each word 'one' is meaning.
Isaiah 45:5-6 "I am the Lord, and there is no other; There is no God besides Me. I will gird you, though you have known Me, that they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other."
1 Cor. 8:4 " . . . there is no other God but one."
Isaiah 46:9 ". . . For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me."
Deut 4:35 ". . . the Lord Himself is God; there is none other beside Him."
Deut 32:39 "Now see that I, even I, am He, and there is no God besides Me. . . . "

There are others, but its scriptures like these that brings scholars to the belief that there is one God, one being, one essense. Again, perhaps translated loosely, it means, there is one true Godhead and no other, but until I have access to the original script that we take these scriptures from (which I'll have access tonight), I will for now side with the biblical scholars who have already studied Hebrew and Greek and say that these passages mean that there is one being.

As for the separation, we know that God is separate into the different personalities. Like you said, the Son will sit at the right hand of the Father. We even see the three in different locations during Christ's baptism. Matthew 3:16-17 "As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, 'This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.' " God the Father was in heaven, God the Son was coming out of the water, and God the Holy Spirit descended from heaven down to Jesus. You also see what many scholors believe to be a major separation between Jesus and the Father. Matthew 27:46 "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Or as the amplified puts it, "And about the ninth hour (three o'clock) Jesus cried with a loud voice, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?--that is, My God, My God, why have You abandoned Me [leaving Me helpless, forsaking and failing Me in My need]?" Perhaps this again is a loose translation and doesn't mean that God the Father and God the Son were united as one, but upon the cross, were separated from that union. But many scholors believe (and this could use debate) that because God is perfect and righteous, He separates Himself from sin and uncleanliness. So it is theorized (as we don't know for sure) that God the Father maintained His holiness by separating Himself from God the Son, who was covered in the unclean sins of the world. So these scriptures is where the concept of the separation comes from.

I do ask that you forgive me that this response wasn't more detailed or better organized scripturally. Until today, I did not have access to some truly excellent biblical resources. I still felt the desire to respond to your questions with what I knew and understood from the bible. Tonight, when I have time, I will look into the subject much more deeply, but for now, I wanted to response so that 1. you could see where my understanding lies, and 2. so that you wouldn't feel forgotten. Hehe.

God bless you my friend.
 
Wow.

I must say, I have read [nearly] every word of this thread, and almost every post has made me rethink my own personal theory... of course, I ended right back up where I started, dazed and confuzzled.

Well, I guess I shouldn't be too upset about it, because it's a question that people a lot smarter than me have struggled with for a couple of millenia now. I'm going to attempt to boil it down to one paragraph to summarize.

I believe the concensus is that we have hints in Scripture, but nothing that defines the actual nature of the Godhead. There are definitely three separate natures of God, all existing at the same time, but how connected these three aspects of God's nature are is what's unclear. Some believe they act as independant entities, and some as different roles of the same entity.

I believe God Himself addressed this in Exodus 3:14--
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

God called himself "I AM", not "WE ARE". That seems to make things lean toward the Trinity being more joined than separate. Any thoughts?
 
Well I am amazed and awed, what a wonderful and nicely debated thread. Everyone has given some very interesting insite and of course my favorite, Did a good job of using Scripture for they’re backing up they’re view.

I would like to close my comments and observations with this. I am a full gospel believer, God wrote it, I believe it, That settles it for me. Now there are two views here and do lines of thought

Godhead same entity

God Head Three distinct entities

I would be so bold that either way you cut that apple and follow scripture If God Is 3 in one and the same. That is fine, God the Father and God the Son and the Holy Spirit are 3 distinct entities, part of a holy hierarchy govern under the Father, matters little to me at this time.

If the 1st is true, it effects my beliefs not at all
If the 2nd is true, I am in the same boat

If you worship and call on Jesus, God designed it that way, it says so in the bible. I may never know, nor will it keep me up at night, nor should it you. I am called to be a Christian, TO follow the greatest commandment, and to fulfill the great commission.

So weather Hived minded Or all in one, I worship the Lord Jesus Christ, I worship the Father. If I was wrong to do this I believe God would have convicted me by now. The Bible supports this. I just wanted to make sure everyone understood, We know what our salvation is, everything else is gravy. Even you fellow leaders, if this issue is eating you study it, pray over it. Teach what you are sure of. Jesus will will bring you to the truth.

The word and Prayer

Feed and water your spiritman/woman



So Thanks everyone, for your thoughtful insists. I will now start another thread.
Love in Christ
God bless
 
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Acts 17:29 Context: http://bible1.crosswalk.com/OnlineS...ge=ac+17:29&version=kjv&context=1&showtools=1

Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Colossians 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.


I think Acts 17:29 explains that the Trinity is not something that we are able to fully conceive. But aren't many things of God like that? He lives within me. He is everywhere at once....I could go on and on about the Magnificent things He is and does that my mind really cannot comprehend.

Three separate, AND all one!
 
I don't think this says anything that we haven't been saying. For me, it just confirmed the truth that we have been discussing. It was in my email this morning. I love when things are timed to coincide. It makes it a sweet little reminder that God has a plan and there are no accidents with Him.

From Titus 2 Men and Women

Matthew 3 The Trinity

"And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:" (v.16)

Here we see evidence of the trinity. God is a triune God, that is, three distinct persons in one. Here we have Jesus in the water, the Holy Spirit coming down from Heaven in the form of a dove, and (the next verse) God the Father speaks from Heaven. The trinity is a very important doctrine in the Bible, and a very confusing one for us to understand. There have been many attempts at explaining it, but none can adequately describe it because it is an infinite design and we are of finite minds. Probably one of the most understandable illustrations for the trinity is each one of us ourselves! I for instance, I am a father; I am a son; and I am a brother, (cousin, etc.) In each of these positions, I am the same person, but seen in a different perspective, and have slightly different duties and obligations. To deny the trinity is to deny God, or at least a part of Him, and to deny God is the lowest and most despicable thing that a man can do in, and with, his life. As we are known in a different way by different people, so it is with the Godhead. Each of my friends see me a little differently, as yours will you also with you; if you were to interview my wife, she would know me differently than say my best friend, or even my parents. When we get close to our Lord, we can see Him in different perspectives, as He truly is, as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. The Father is the Master of the plan, the provider, and the protector of our souls; the Son is the redeemer of our souls, and the Holy Spirit is the empowering of the plan. It is He, the Holy Spirit, Who seals us unto the Lord, and empowers us to do right. God commands it; Christ provides it; and the Holy Spirit moves or empowers it. That is the way redemption works, and it is the greatest of works. We need all three Persons of the trinity working in our lives today, in this present and evil world in which we live. To deny any one of them is to deny God Himself, as they are a part of Him. Recognize the work and the importance of the Godhead (trinity) in your life, and you will realize the great blessing that God has bestowed upon us.

It is a sad thing to realize that, today, many seem to deny the triune God, saying there is only one God in one Person. The Bible clearly teaches that there is one God, but also that there is three Persons in Him and all three distinct and separate in their functions and in their being. All three having specific and distinct duties and all testifying of the grace and greatness of the Father.
--Marty Dunn
 
I do not think I could add anything meaninful to this discussion, without quite a bit of plagiarism, however, if I may recommend a book by Paul Little - "Know What You Believe" It has a couple chapters that really help to further clarify the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Gen
 
I ran across these verses today. They made me selah! The Holy Spirit. You guys got me thinking about this one... I always think of Him as my prayer warrior that utters my groaning, by Biblical description, and that He is my Helper/Covicter/Friend... today I thought...Holy Spirit, ONE! There is only ONE!!! Therefore, the Holy Spirit within each of us, is that ONE! That is unfathomable awesome!

For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Ephesians 2:18

There is one body, one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Ephesians 4:4~6
 
"In the beginning was the Word [that is, Jesus], and the Word was with God, and the word was God...All things were made by Him; abd without him was not any thing that was made...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us."(John 1:1, 3, 14, emphasis added)"

Most people look at God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit like this 1+1+1=3 instead they should be looking at it like this 1x1x1=1.

The first one is from the Bible (duh). And the second is from Solving Bible Mysteries by D. James Kennedy.
 
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