"The Grudge"

Avesther

Avesther

New Member
I finished watching this horror movie, and while I enjoy a good fright, even to the point of laughter, this one caused me to stir abit.

My question to you is, can such a horror exist outside and off the silver screen?
Have you ever experienced such a horror?
 
What are you talking about GP? I've never seen it. Would you recommend it?

I like horror movies and wanted to watch it back when it first came out, but decided against it for, uh, non of your business reasons, lol. I still kinda would like to see it though.
 
Its, well, horror without the gorror.

Would I recommend it, not if you aren't into horror.

Its based on Japanesse folklore of horror, that is, there is not necessarily any way to solve the problem.

For example, the American rules for Haunted houses is: Find the haunting, find out the issue, solve the issue, haunting goes away, haunting never really leaves the 4 walls of the house or immediate surrounding area. A few movies bend these rules (ie...Rose Red) but very few ever break them.

In Japanese folklore, the haunting remains forever. You become part of the haunting when you enter a haunted house. It becomes a part of your life as some of the evil energies has now become part of you. So, the evil spirits that haunt the house can have an effect on you while at work, at home or at play. Solving the issue (why is the spirit still haunting) does not release the spirit. Ghosts play a more important role in Folklore then witches and like. Violent and emotional events can give rise to new creations, such as demons and ghosts.

If you like horror without gorror, this is a good movie for you.
 
Yes, they do exist in the occult. While I have not seen the movie, I have experienced very terrifying things while I was wiccan. The images portrayed by horror movies are more accurate of the occult that the pop culture movies, books and shows. Ultimately though, our Lord can break these things, called soul ties. They are also related to Generational Curses and can carry from family member to family member to close friends, etc. Very very nasty stuff.

Gen
 
Gen's knowledge never ceases to amaze me. I come for a long line of witches, Gaelic and Caribbean. So While I have seen 1st what can be unleashed, it’s rarely like what the movies portray. Though it can be as emotional and as dark, Good thing we walk in favor of the Lord.

DO horrors exist? yes and man is the worst, are we susceptible to supernatural influences? I want to be careful, there is biblical foundations for the supernatural, laws that God Almighty created, Through the Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ and through our faith in our savoir (The Lord Jesus Christ) and the bible we CAN have authority thru Christ in the Spiritaul realm.

This authority is the key from what I am learning about Generational Curses, I have spiritual authority over my house and my children not yet to the age of accountability. But say I was in Ken’s house for tea; I am limited in authority to what Kens dictates I have. A great example of this is found in

Jude1: 8-10
8In the very same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings. 9But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" 10Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.

He we see that the very angel that fought the devil and other demons successfully, his power was thru the authority of the Lord, not himself. Nor was there any catcalling or smack talk. Just the rebuking of the Lord. Michael used the Authority of the Lord here. I am being lead to believe that there are spiritual laws that have to be observed to produce results in Spiritual realms.

Our obedience is another Key, Obedience to the Word of God and the discernment of the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 10:4-6
The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 6And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.

Here we see that we are given the weapons to fight and destroy strong holds (Faith, Word Of God, Blood Of Christ, walking in obedeince), once our obedience is complete, for sin allows a foot holds into our lives, like a crack in the armor, unless its patched; it will lead to a dangerous situation in a time of need. Daily confession and Prayer, making right what is wrong, living Godly spirit filled lives. This will keep us in obedience

So yes; such a horror exists outside the screen; As graphic as the grudge, I have never seen the movie, but I have seen some pretty dark things manifested in my life. Since I have become a Christian and understood the power of the Lord Jesus Christ and completely given my Life over to him, I am not bothered outright any more. My fears of the Dark have given way to my walking in the Light of the truth of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Read up on the Spiritual Realm, Generation curses and such, tests everything against scripture. If it does not follow scripture, disregard it and do not entertain it. As scripture leads you (and it will) to the spiritual realities, pray and see what God would have of you.

Too many people do not understand the spiritual realties of the bible and the world, then they become pawns of it and those who understand it better. Better you know these realities than you don’t. The Lord Jesus Christ walks with you always seek Him and he will lead you.

I pray this helps.
God Bless
 
I concur, not from firsthand experience with the Wiccan religion, but with firsthand experience helping someone break those bonds. A few years ago, I received a call from a friend of mine who was involved in Wicca before she became a Christian, and she told me I needed to get over to her place immediately because she thought she was being possessed by a demon.

I grabbed a friend and headed over, and by the time we got there she was making all sorts of growling and gurgling noises and thrashing about. We laid hands on her and prayed in Jesus' name, and after a few minutes, she just stopped. She said that our hands felt like they were burning her.

I had my suspicions about the authenticity of her "possession", mainly because I had always thought that someone who was saved could not be possessed. I forget the reference, but scripturally, one can still be "repressed" by demons after they are saved, but not "possessed". In other words, spiritual beings can still take over your body without taking over your soul (or something like that, my pastor at the time explained it to me).

If anyone can shed more light on this, please enlighten me, because I still don't understand it completely.
 
hescominsoon said:
As Gen was Wiccan when we met I was Druidic. I followed the Druidic ways of life and even tried to be totlaly neutral about just about everything. It was a way of life I am glad to be out of. I look back and am amazed at how much like spock i had actually become.
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The Druids are a very interesting bunch :D - we learned about druidism a few weeks ago during a Wednesday class at church. A lot of our holidays came from Druidism, which I find very interesting, lol.

I'm still a Christian! I'm just sometimes fascinated and intrigued by some societies, customs, religions, etc. :D
 
Bill:

I heard to the saved can not be "reprosessed, but can be opressed! I think the meaning that Christ is in us when we become saved. But We can be opressed by demons and spirits ( not sure of the distinction here )

so I am looking in to the difference now. You have pipped my interest.
brb
 
Mat.12:28 -29 "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can one enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house."

Luke 11:21-26 "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. But when a stronger than he comes upon him and overcomes him, he takes from him all his armor in which he trusted, and divides his spoils. He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters. When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes, he finds it swept and put in order. Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first."

These, as you've probably guessed, are the scriptures detailing possessions. It seems to indicate that when a demon is cast out (strong man over powered) he can repossess if the house is "empty." However, if one becomes a Christian he is "filled with the Holy Spirit" and has "Christ in [him]." So, Jesus has power to cast out demons from unbelievers but if the unbeliever does not become a believer he will remain under the power of darkness.
 
I have never heard before of a Wiccan being possessed or overwhelmed by anything summoned. I would appreciate more details for my peace of mind and edification.

I suspect that, in this case, what we mean by Wiccan is simply different.

And Druids neutral? That comment also suprises me - Druids are tied into the seasons, passions and pattern of existence. Their focus on things not quite of the waking world sometimes leads them to appear indifferent where their fellow man is, but Druids are most definitely passionate people.

I would also appreciate information on the Druidic order you were initiated into.
 
When one becomes a Christian, they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. They are sealed and the Holy Spirit remains in them. When one is not saved, the same space is "available" and can be possessed by demons or other things. Granted, these cases are few, but they do exist. To say a Christian can be possess is saying that the enemy is greater that the Holy Spirit which is not Scripturally correct.

Gen
 
Actually I believe scripture makes no mention either way of whether a Christian can be possessed by a demon. I understand your argument, and it does have merit, but it is important to seperate opinion from scripture.

For example, I believe there are some Christian faiths who would answer yes, a Christian can be possessed.

Thank you to the former Druid for the information on your path - it makes many things clear to me. Was your Wiccan friend in a similar circumstance?
 
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Well, seeing as there were only about 12 Christians in the whole of bible - is that a big wonder?

There are no specific mention of Christians being Computer Programmers either - does that mean Computer Programmers can't be Christians?
 
I understand there are some churches within your religion that would contend differently. Aren't they called Deliverance Churches? Regardless, I don't know the truth one way or another, but it seems to me that the difference between having your behaviour strongly influenced and being possessed is so fine that it has confused some people - in addition, if demonic influence can make you an alcholic, drug addict, or a philanderer then I suppose the difference is superficial.

All I was trying to say is that there is a difference between the bible saying something is impossible, and the bible not mentioning it and humans inferring it's impossible.
 
Eon said:
I have never heard before of a Wiccan being possessed or overwhelmed by anything summoned. I would appreciate more details for my peace of mind and edification.
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I wish I had more details than I do.

Basically, she was a part of the Wiccan religion. She claimed to have been able to do some actual magic, like flipping light switches from across the room, "the spoon is not there" trick from the Matrix, stuff like that. I've never studied Wicca in depth-- aside from her, I don't know any other (former) Wiccans, so I've just never been exposed to it. I said she was a former Wiccan because that's what she told me-- I have no way to substantiate the veracity of the claim except that she had no known reason to lie to me, if that's what you're going for.

How would you define a Wiccan?
 
A wiccan is a follower of one of the revived schools of animist belief that was restarted, puportedly from traditional roots, by Gerald Gardner. The term has since been widened to include offshoot groups that were inspired by the Gardnerian's - these range from more reputable such as the Alexandrians through to small self-study groups of one or less working from text books of dubious veracity.

I had the privilige to know some rather old school Gardnerians who introduced me to some people, who introduced me to some people, etc. Participated in some open ceremonies involving various flavours of Wiccan and other paths too. So I've met sufficient Wiccan's to have had a broad based experience, from high powered Gardnerians, through Alexandrians down to someone who had a book on being a White Witch.

So I was wondering where in the gamut your friend fitted?
 
You'd have to ask WildBill - I don't know who his friend is. Truthfully it's not really germane to the discussion, as I'm merely seeking information on the paths followed by the two people he mentioned.
 
Eon said:
Actually I believe scripture makes no mention either way of whether a Christian can be possessed by a demon. I understand your argument, and it does have merit, but it is important to seperate opinion from scripture.
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Please note that scripture does have specific verses on this issue and it is mere you who "believe" there is none. Your opinion on the scriptures has no scriptural basis (lol). The follwing is a post I made earlier in this Thread.

Jericho_Falls said:
Mat.12:28 -29 "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can one enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house."

Luke 11:21-26 "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. But when a stronger than he comes upon him and overcomes him, he takes from him all his armor in which he trusted, and divides his spoils. He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters. When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes, he finds it swept and put in order. Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first."

These, as you've probably guessed, are the scriptures detailing possessions. It indicates that when a demon is cast out (strong man overpowered) he can repossess if the house is "empty." However, if one becomes a Christian he is "filled with the Holy Spirit" and has "Christ in [him]." So, Jesus has power to cast out demons from unbelievers but if the unbeliever does not become a believer he will remain under the power of darkness
Click to expand...
 
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