The Serpent in the Garden
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Well, the only evidence you could get would have to be of the Mystical sort. The best Mystical Evidence I have seen regarding the Creation Story is from Anne Catherine Emmerich's "Life of Jesus and History of Redemption" (often referred to as simply "Life of Jesus", in four volumes, but you would need only Volume One).[b said:
Now, about 'snakes'. It isn't an easy question. Snakes are a Symbol for the Vital Force on the Physical Plane of Existence. Even Judaic Tradition had a sort of love-hate relation to 'snakes' as symbols. Remember, when in the Desert the Hebrews were all being bitten by snakes -- Moses had a pole made on which two snakes were shown intertwined (The Caduceus), and anyone who looked upon it would be healed (that Pole foreshadowed the Crucifix). that Pole had been included in the Arc of the Covenant, but a young and enthusiastic Jewish King had it destroyed because he thought his people were beginning to worship it like an idol. It was good enough for Moses but it was beneath the Religious Tastes of a know-everything arrogant young man. From then on in Jewish History the Jews would have no defense against the snake bite of Satan and they would fall repeatedly into error.
I once was a relatively high initiate into what is called Kundalini Yoga -- SnakePower Yoga. The Human Body has three channels for the Prana (spiritual energy). Right, left, and directly up the center of the spine. Right is Hot(sun), left is cool(moon). The Center is the real deal. Through various exercises and initiations the energy is brought from the tail bone to the Third Eye and the Top of the Head. It bestows Wisdom and Enlightenment. As a hint, if you ever have a very bad fever -- drink a glass of cold water and imagine in your mind that you are following it down your throat to just off the left side of your bottom most spine bone. This will turn on the Cool Channel and your fever will go away.
Also, it is common to have "snake dreams". You can't kill the things. They symbolize vital energy -- the life force -- so they are eternal. But in dreams they represent the dangers of carnality and physical interests over Spiritual Interests.
So, in Mysticology, there is no easy answer as to whether the Snake Symbol is entirely good or entirely bad. Like in Kundalini Yoga, it depends on what is done with the Prana. If it gets stuck in the Lower Centers then it quite can turn a man into a virtual demon. But in the Higher Centers that same man would be a Saint. It all depends.
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I would have to say it is indeed literal. Adam and Eve were incredibly wise people...talking to animals, I am quite certain, was not beyond their capacities, but then came the fall, and that knowledge, and much more, I am sure, was lost.
But then you take the Sumerians and their freaking ridiculous knowledge of astronomical figures and motions...geez, it's insane. I would think people of Biblical era were insanely intelligent, using 100% or thereabouts of their brain capacity.
But as for the universal curse of snakes, I don't know. That snake would most likely be the father of all snakes, or some such, and thus all of snake-kind was to suffer for the father's suffering of Satan entering his body, physically possessing it for his purpose, the purpose of bringing death into the world as another stab to try to overtake God.
Is what I think...
But then you take the Sumerians and their freaking ridiculous knowledge of astronomical figures and motions...geez, it's insane. I would think people of Biblical era were insanely intelligent, using 100% or thereabouts of their brain capacity.
But as for the universal curse of snakes, I don't know. That snake would most likely be the father of all snakes, or some such, and thus all of snake-kind was to suffer for the father's suffering of Satan entering his body, physically possessing it for his purpose, the purpose of bringing death into the world as another stab to try to overtake God.
Is what I think...
mrpopdrinker
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This is somthing I have always thought about. Now I of course believe it was satan after all that is what the bible says. I also believe satan and lucifer are different. The only unanswered question is how satan got so much power. Lucifer I am sure has some power so maby he ressurected satan?
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...do you just not think Lucifer is Satan? Lucifer was Satan before he fell. Then when he fell, kinda like when Cain's countenance fell and he set himself into stone, he entirely changed into something different, still retaining his beauty and majesty, in a lesser degree, and still the same awesome power, though now he uses it for a different purpose and goal: overthrow the Almighty, and bring about the deaths of his followers.
mrpopdrinker
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Here is what I am following. Satan goes out and decieved Adam and Eve and is cursed. Now a cursed being cant very well be a archangel can it? Lucifer dident fall form heaven till much later. I meen it talks about him destroying nations and so forth. There were no nations at the time of the garden. So satan and lucifer must be seperate.
Where does the Bible *EVER* say that the Serpent was Satan?
And, on the subject of Lucifer, you may be surprised to know that the talk of Lucifer, the morning star, in Ezekial, was referring to an earthly king, not the devil.
http://www.infidelguy.com/pete1-A.html
And, on the subject of Lucifer, you may be surprised to know that the talk of Lucifer, the morning star, in Ezekial, was referring to an earthly king, not the devil.
http://www.infidelguy.com/pete1-A.html
mrpopdrinker
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I looked in Isaiah not Exekial. Where does the Bible say the serpent is satan? Revelation 12:9 "The great dragon was hurled down that ancient serpant called the devil or satan" Isiah 14:12-15 (although you could read further) "How you have fallen from heaven O morning star son of the dawn. You have been cast down to earth you who once laid low the nations. You have said in your heart that you will ascend to heaven I will raise my throne above the stars of God I will sit enthroned upon the mount of assembly on the utmost heights of the sacred mounten. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds I will make myself like the most high. But you are brought down to the grave to the depths of the pit."
Woops, Isaiah.
OK, that Revelation verse does confirm, I suppose, that the serpent of Eden was Satan. Why, then the mass curse? It really does not make any sense.
And that passage you gave regarding the morning star is not referring to Satan. Check out that link I put in my last post.
OK, that Revelation verse does confirm, I suppose, that the serpent of Eden was Satan. Why, then the mass curse? It really does not make any sense.
And that passage you gave regarding the morning star is not referring to Satan. Check out that link I put in my last post.
mrpopdrinker
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I dont feel like going through all of that right now. Post the specific part.
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I like Anne Catherine Emmerich account, and from that I have contructed a consistent Model of the Story which makes Paradise an Astral-like Heaven, not the Earth that we have in the Bible. And Adam and Eve were Astral Spirits who only became Human Beings when they were cast down -- we were thrown 'into' human beings, we are NOT human beings -- we are IN human beings. This account serves well to explain alot. for instance, God is only Omnipotent IN HEAVEN. But the curse kicked us out of Heaven OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF GOD. Now, God only has Providential Power through the Agency of His Angels. All the Protestants who think they are going DIRECTLY to God misss the point that on Earth you can't go directly to God. This is not Heaven. By the very definition of where we happen to be we need the Intercession of the Angels and the Saints.[b said:
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Dear Timor[b said:
do a Search on Simplified Kundalini Yoga, Vethathiri (www.vethathiri.org) -- that was my old organization. The traditional Kundalini Yogas involve a whole lot of breath retention exercises which probably fry a lot of braincells -- all the lights and colors come from killing your brain. But with the Simplified Kundalini Yoga -- the power is passed like they used to pass "the Holy Spirit" from Apostle to Disciple. After you Initiation you actually have a tangible and perceptable energy field that you never felt before. Vethathiri visited America alot and I know for an absolute fact that he visited New Jersey for the longest. The organization in Piscataway is the oldest if it still exists. Look up a David Teese for me. If he is still around he would now be an old man like me. I used to tease him and pull his tail alot.
There is another organization you might like -- they were also in the Area. Kirpal Singh's old organization (http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/kirpal.htm) Kirpal Singh died but the guys who took over have the 'touch'.
They got real commercial after I left.
Just a couple of decades ago they wanted me to go to a few week retreat and I bulked when they told me how much it would cost. They told me I couldn't go to the next rung of Initiation. I laughed! I'm already as High as you can get! Kiss my Bodhi-Satva Butt! However, they may be the only game left in town. The arrogant dicks. I found an exercise -- if you you just sit in a lotus position and twirl your thumbs for two or three minutes, it arouses the central channel and the energy will rise up to your head, after you stop twirling your thumbs. I submitted a paper on my findings and all the snots could say was "you didn't go to the retreat, so what do you know?" Well, I told them I knew enough to fart in all of their faces and walked out. But the thumb thing works. Try it.
You can see if you can bring the Energy up yourself. They say meditate for 15 minutes. Just five. Why waste time. Concentrate between and just above the brows. Every once in awhile give yourself a good thump there. Find a pointy object -- even a paper cone and point it into your head at that point. If you feel a sensation going about an inch back -- score. Do that for a few weeks. If you begin to get headaches -- score. Now you need to bring the power down. You get a glass of cold water and drink it and imagine the energy following the water down to the lowest bone in your spine. Work that for a couple of weeks. Now, to bring it up to the Highest Level you have to imagine that the Root of your Brain -- your Brain Stem is the Same Point as your lowest bone in the spine. Now, this next part may be impossible without already feeling your energy field. But, if you can feel the energy in your brain stem, it will feel like about the size of a pea or a bb. Make it oscillate back and forth and swing it like a little pendulum -- it will get larger -- then bring it up to the top of the head, then through the top of the head and let it rise up about a foot to eighteen inches. As I said, the problem is that I don't know whether you can sense the 'pea' -- that little nucleus of energy in your brain stem if you haven't already been initiated by the Touch.
There are things you can do. The Vedas say that in the presence of a God or Saint your Agna Chakra (the one between your brows) will open up. I was able to sense this a few times even before my Initiations. So if you know of any place "Holy" or anybody who is "Holy" you can effectively 'steal' an initiation -- you get that Chakra opened -- just a slight feeling in your forehead -- a pressure -- and you don't let it go away, by bringing it back through an act of will everytime it goes away. As I said, you know it is working if you start getting wicked headaches. then you bring it down as described. But even when I could do that, I wasn't able to feel the Energy all through the body until after the High Initiation. I have a hint for you. The Crown Chakra is not on the Top of the Head -- it is on the Back Upper Corner of the head -- like where Women put their hair in a bun. But if you can ever feel a Swirl of Energy over your Crown Chakra, then you should then have a body awareness of your energy also.
By the way, all this I just told you was Secret. Ha! Let them take me to court! That will teach them to be surly when I try to tell them about a perfectly good thumb exercise.
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yeah,[b said:
As I said before, there is nothing direct in the Bible about Lucifer's Rebellion and the Fall of the Angels. It is still Oral Tradition. Everyone knows it but no one has ever written it down, officially.
LionOfJudah
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Hey leo you are wrong again we can pray to God anytime we want because our great High Priest made that atoning sacrifice for us so that we may pray to him.
WOW i like how the Catholics have put God in this box AGAIN
God is omnipotient, in heaven but not on earth
WOW that just crys stupidity all over it
The very nature of the greek work for omnipotient means EVERYWHERE, infact you cant even discribe the word right in english because that is how factured our language really is.
WOW i like how the Catholics have put God in this box AGAIN
God is omnipotient, in heaven but not on earth
WOW that just crys stupidity all over it
The very nature of the greek work for omnipotient means EVERYWHERE, infact you cant even discribe the word right in english because that is how factured our language really is.
LionOfJudah
Member, Dreamcast Fishing Guru
Satans rebellion was written by a Catholic, his rebellion is never stated in the Bible so we are not even sure if that is how it has happened people just accept it with out question. Adam and Eve where created as man and women here on Earth, and the garden was here on Earth.
Lets just explain away everything as we are spirits in a material world, are you catholic or newage now?
Lets just explain away everything as we are spirits in a material world, are you catholic or newage now?
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So, you little inconsistant twiddlybob, if nothing is written down and nobody knows anything, what makes you so sure of your version?[b said:
LionOfJudah
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The Bible is writen down i am referring to the fall of Satan it like how you pick and choose and duck and weave in your replies its quit funny
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I explained how what I said is true.[b said:
You, on the otherhand, simply make assertion. Of course you can pray until you are blue in the face. God hasn't answered, has He. Why not? Because what I say is true -- that This is not Heaven. We are not in the Presence of God. God can only act Providentially through his Angels and Saints. Now, you you heretical blasphemous Prots ever do get a 'Miracle' it is because one of you secretly implored the help of an angel or a Saint.