The wife submitting

PapaToad

PapaToad

Active Member
We have the Trinity mentioned in the middle of verses on the marriage relationship. The two are one flesh, but the wife submits herself unto her husband, giving him the authority.

The above was a Post from Marcylene.

I am in the middle of Creflo Dollar Ministries series on relationships and marriage. I make no illusion that I have been married twice before I came to the Lord. And What I know about relationship is very rough indeed. So like everything I have done with my life since coming to the Lord, I took my rules for relationships out of the Bible. God Created marriage, so it makes sense to me, He knows the rules.


So as I learn and God bless my wife, it can not be easy being married to a man like me, who has spent the better part of his life giving orders and teaching destruction. My Wife was Raised a peace loving Christian. God has done huge works on us and is still.

Anyway Marcylene, I am not picking on your thread. What you said is true, I just felt lead to use it as a learning tool. Some one out here needs to hear this thread. I am not picking on you Marcylene. Please know that.

The wife submitting to the Husband and Him having authority over her. Who sees the loop holes in this statement?

Did the Men out there know Men are to submit to there wives as well?

Did you know that for married men; the power of your prayers, is completely dependent on the weather you and you wife are in snyc?

Would anyone be so bold as to give me scriptural reference for or against these statements?

If your married or in a serious relationship, why is it hard for men and weman to submitt to each other?
 
For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
Likewise ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered. I Peter 3:5~7

I mean no disrespect, MA. But loopholes? It is a Biblical principle. As God remembers that we are but dust, the husband, in order to have his prayers unhindered, should remember that the wife is the weaker vessel, giving honour to her, who she is, and her place within the relationship. I believe being heirs together of the grace of life says that you should lead her in the LORD. There are many ways to please your wife, but the most important is fellowshipping in the LORD, studying and reading God's Word, praying together...these are the ways to be in sync, as you said. You have heard, the couple that prayes together stays together, this verse is where that originates.

I stand by what I say! Look around! The couples who obey in this area, are some of the happiest, most blessed in their relationships. The home should be a picture of Heaven. The husband is the head, a picture of God the Father, and the wife is a picture of Jesus...one flesh with her husband, yet honoring, obeying, and adoring him!

Ephesians is black and white on how the marriage relationship should be mirrored. I can only speak from a woman's perspective...submission reminds me of the verse about casting all our cares upon Jesus because He cares for us, and the other about His yoke being easy. When a woman submits to her husband and honours him in the way Sarah did, calling Him lord...it gives peace beyond our understanding and happiness beyond our wildest dreams. I know marriage is not always strawberries for breakfast and lovin' all the time...but doing things the way God has set forth, sure makes it come close!
 
Too funny, I agree Marcylene, But this day and age, so many veiw submission with slavery, or they 1940s version of leave it to beaver. Or better yet, take a young lady who watches her mother be abused for years and then can not allow a man close to her.

All I was saying was its not One sided, and with under 15% of the so called church actually being bible believing Christian, or bible practicing Christians. I can see this confusing

I myself have lead men into life and death situation, that same tactic does not work well with my wife. No madam It does not, but its been it trying two year transition. And I was amazed at how many couples did not understand the true biblical principles of submission and being the head of a house hold.

My point was to many times that self same statement.

The wife submitting to the Husband and Him having authority over her

Has been use to control a wife, while never giving care to have a man examine himself to act as head as Christ was head of the Church.

Christ took care of the church, do you think any of the disciples ever really thought Jesus did not love them. I know my wife loves me, but there are times…

So I did not mean to out you off in anyway, I was just wondering what everyone thought. I stand on the bible, it is the cornerstone of my Morales.
 
I think what you guys are saying is very close to on the money. I'm going to interject something into this discussion:

Eph 5:22 is a set of instructions for who? Wives and only wifes. It says, "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord." Notice the placement of the comma, this means the verse is specifically giving instruction to the wives. It is not instructions for the men to forcefully place their wives into submission. It is not to be used by husbands as a tool of submission, because the instruction is not mean for him. Any husband who uses this passage against his wife is sinning three fold.

1. Breaking a commandment
2. Breaking the instruction of God found in Eph 5:21 (An instruction to husband and wife to submit to one another.)
3. Breaking the instruction of God found in Eph 5:25

Eph 5:25 is an instruction to husbands, and husbands only. Same rules apply here. "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her."

Notice the placement of the comma again, this is an instruction to husbands. This is God speaking to husbands about how he expects them to treat their wives. No where in this instruction does it say, beat thy wife with Eph 5:21 into submission. Rather, God says, do for your wives that which I have done for the church. And what did he do for the church: He died for it.

If married couples actually followed the instructions given to them by God, instead of laurding it over each other, every marriage would be better off. How much better off, I don't know. God promised blessings and joy and rewards for those who were obedient to his word. So I can safely assume that all marriages would be better off.


Thats my $0.02
 
About a Year ago I hated the word submit, especially the verse

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.
Now the word submit doesn’t mean I am my husbands slave but that I am to organize myself under my husband. It is my responsibility as a wife to help my husband. I am my husband’s helpmate as it states in
Ge 2:18 The LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”
1)The wife is to help the accomplish the dream of her husband.
2) the wife is to counterpart to her husband
Ge 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he create him; male and female he created them.
1Co 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man;
9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.

Col 3:18 Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
A year ago I took a class called a Biblical Portrait of a Marriage and I really hated that verse, but you know it is part of the Bible which also means it is part of Gods Word. A lot of times I didn’t want to do or agree to what my husband had in mind or wanted to do so I fought about him. Even when I took that class, my thoughts were but what about if it isn’t fair. Then I saw a testimony given by another wife in a film clip and she said that maybe it wasn’t her place to correct or teach her husband. Things like what about the kids they can’t do this or that. Yes we should talk to our husbands but on the end whatever they say has to be it.


The husband has the hardest part of all. Just think about what the Bible says.
Nowhere in the Bible states that the wife is suppose to love the husband, But it says in
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
Not only do they have to love us but they have to love us as Christ loved the Church and you all know what Christ did for us He died for us.

Well what I am trying to say is, since this class, my marriage has grown big time. My husband is the leader in our home now. Before sad to say, I put my children before my husband because. At times it is not easy to submit to my husband, but the blessings I have received are numerous. I have been married for 17 ½ years.

You know on the end of this particular lesson we were told
“Behind every great man is an even greater woman.”
I have no idea who said that.

UGH I hope I haven’t confused you now. This is one subject I feel real strongly about
 
Red has hit on another point:

Husbands are commanded to Love their wives, wives are commanded to Respect their husbands.

Why?

The logic I see behind it is so easy: Think of your favourite food as a kid? Pizza, Ice cream, chocolate chip cookies? Think of your least favourite food as a kid? (for me:) seafood, broccolli, tomatoes. Which did your parents tell you to eat? I'd hazard a guess that for almost everybody, we all had to be told (commanded) to do that which we were more adverse to doing.

This is the same of God our father. He doesn't need to command us to do what we are already going to do, or enjoy doing. Men are naturally inclined to respect, women are inclined to Love. Its no biggy to say:

Women love your husbands. D'uh, I can do that. But respect...different story altogether. And vic versa is true of men. Sure I can respect my wife, thats easy...but God doesn't do that...he wants us to step out of the box and commands us to, eek, Love our wives.

I read a recent survey done with couples whos marriage breaks down. I can't give the source because honestly, I never thought I would use it. It basically boiled it down to that most marriages break down because women don't feel loved by their husbands and men don't feel as if they are respected by their wives. Imagine that!!!!

The same survey touched on relationships where a spouse was unfaithful. When it was the women who was unfaithful, her secret partner showered her with things she considered love and affectionate (flowers, cuddling, putting her needs first.) And with men, the secret woman listened to him, was compassionate towards his trails. Basically, women who were unfaithful searched out a partner who would love her and men would search out partners who would respect him.

Again, if married couples simply followed the instructions given to them by a loving father, marriages would be so much better off!!!
 
Gods Peon you said that most marriages break down because women don't feel loved by there husband.
Well a lot of couples expect to have the fuzzy warm feelings and once that is gone they aren't interested anymore. Then the marriage breaks up. There were times that I really disliked my husband and I had to choose to love my husband. People take marriage as an easy ride. Marriage is hard work; you have to work at it everyday.
Another reason marriages break up is because they don’t leave there parents as God commands us to do in
Ge 2:24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
Think about it if you don’t leave your parents you can’t cleave to each other.
Leave defined in the Hebrew language (the language in which the Old Testament was written is means to loosen, depart, and abandon.
When we leave our parents our love for each other should grow.
Cleaving defined in the Hebrew language is to pursue, joined and to keep fast together.
Always Keep God in the Center of your Marriage.

With me first comes God then my husband and then my children.

God Bless
Manuela
 
The women have the easy part. We love, and respect naturally follows. Now, the men being commanded to love...we women can be a pain...



sometimes:)
Red, thank you for sharing your heart! Your beautiful testimony makes my heart sing!
And a hanky waving amen to all of you and your stand!
 
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Off the top of my head love is caring for someone; respect is looking up to someone.

Instead of just handing you that simplified answer, I thought I would do a checkup on my thoughts of love and respect.

I like the old Webster's definition of love: http://65.66.134.201/cgi-bin/webster/webster.exe?search_for_texts_web1828=love

Then I Corinthians 13 gives me a model on how to love someone. Love is described in the King James Version as charity. I find that interesting, because charity is giving! Therefore it tells me that love is an action word. The Bible describes it as longsuffering, kind, not envious, vaunting not oneself, not puffed up, not behaving unseemly, not seeking my own wants, not easily provoked, not thinking evil, rejoicing not in iniquity but truth, bearing all things, believing all things, hoping all things, enduring all things, never failing. WHEW! That is a lot of action, indeed! :)

Biblical on respect:
Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Philippians 2:3

Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another; Romans 12:19

Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king. I Peter 2:17

When I say that love and respect go hand and hand, while not always true...for me, it is usually the case. I think you can find good in everyone.

I found this interesting as I measured my thoughts by Biblical respect. God is able to respect us.

For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you. Leviticus 26:9


Biblical respect:
to turn
(Qal)
to turn toward or from or away
to turn and do
to turn, decline (of day)
to turn toward, approach (of evening)
to turn and look, look, look back or at or after or for
(Piel) to turn away, put out of the way, make clear, clear away
(Hiphil)
to turn
to make a turn, show signs of turning, turn back
(Hophal) to be turned back

This seems to be more of a regard for and the conditions are:

Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it, for I am the LORD your God.
Ye shall keep my Sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.
If ye walk in my statues, and keep my commandments, and do them.; Leviticus 26: 1~3

I like what Red said about love. It is work. I think it is giving 200%!
I have heard many say that after many years, in the case of one of my favorite preachers, many, many, many, many, many, many years...they still have the tingly, warm fuzzies. Maybe that comes from simply always striving for Biblical love and preferring one another.
 
I made a post to share but realized too late that this computer has no floppy drive. So when I have the time, I'll retype it on this computer and send it your way. :) God bless and keep those topics coming.
 
Marcylene said:
Then I Corinthians 13 gives me a model on how to love someone. Love is described in the King James Version as charity. I find that interesting, because charity is giving! Therefore it tells me that love is an action word. The Bible describes it as longsuffering, kind, not envious, vaunting not oneself, not puffed up, not behaving unseemly, not seeking my own wants, not easily provoked, not thinking evil, rejoicing not in iniquity but truth, bearing all things, believing all things, hoping all things, enduring all things, never failing. WHEW! That is a lot of action, indeed! :)
Click to expand...

My thoughts excactly!!!!!!!
Isn't it amazing what love actually means? We think it’s a feeling like butterflies in our stomach. My Pastor once said that you get that feeling when two people meet, so they get married. But to keep that feeling you have to work on it. And the perfect example is in 1 Corinthians 13

God Bless
Manuela
 
Can you love somebody without respecting them?

Can you respect somebody without loving them? (putting aside that God commanded us to love our neighbour for the purpose of this question)
 
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Submit: To allow oneself be under the authority of another. It is an act of recognition of authority and responsibility. For example, we all submit to the laws of our respective countries; our laws have authority over us. We can't simply do what we want as if it breaks a law, we will face the consequences. We are willing to submit to laws because we believe that they are not meant to harm us.
 
http://bible1.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/freqdisp.cgi?book=eph&number=5293&count=4&version=kjv

Here is the Greek Lexicon version. I love GP's last sentence. Considering that our marriage relationship is supposed to mirror that of the Father and Son...I think this is where we get away from the Biblical definition...the husband leads the wife wanting her best, not "whipping her into submission!" If a wife chooses not to be submissive, there is only one, THE One and Only that can change her heart otherwise. If the word submission leaves a bad taste in your mouth, think relationship between God and Jesus...sweet, tender, love unfathomable. There is nothing added or subtracted here. As GP stated earlier, anything else would be against God, keeping in mind that the utmost authority is God Himself, a wife should never go against a single jot or tittle of God's Word in the name of submission.
 
My 2 cents

(From the God-given wisdom of Solomon) Ecclesiastes 5:9-11 "Two are better than one, because they have a good reward for their labor. For if they fall, one will lift up his companion. But woe to him who is alone when he falls, for he has no one to help him up. Again, if two lie down together, they will keep warm, but how can one be warm alone?"

A couple of month ago, I got a new game called Sims 2. For me, it’s quite a fun and addicting game of building a home and working your way up in the working world and such. My friend tried to do a family, but he had a lot of trouble juggling everything from work to cleaning to cooking and the like. Well, one of the first problems was that both parents were working. When they got home, cleaning and taking care of their baby took up the majority of their time, leaving them tired and exhausted for work next time. The wife had gotten sick, so the husband had to work and clean and feed the baby and care for his wife. But because my friend couldn't keep up with everything, the house was a mess, the wife was near death, the poor baby (who's crib and toys were literally on the roof) was crying in discomfort, and the husband was totally exhausted. Now if you play where one parent goes to work and the other stays home and cares for the home, the teamwork of the two makes the game far easier.

After God created Adam, He declared Genesis 2:18 "And the Lord God said, "it is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him." God didn't say He would make a servant or an inferior. He said He would make a helper comparable to Adam. Eve was not below Adam, nor was she a slave to him. Eve was Adam's helper and his partner. They were the best of friends and so much more as they shared life and love and God together. This is God's intent for marriage: mutual teamwork between a man and his comparable bride.

Ah, but the sin of Adam and Eve brought about a curse, not only to each, but also to marriage itself. Genesis 3:16 " . . . Your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you." Again, this does not mean Eve has become a slave or an inferior of Adam. It merely means that God has declared Adam head of the household, and that he would be held accountable for that household. Man and woman are still designed to compliment each other, but order was also placed in the marriage.

This order of authority and role of wives has been metaphoric for us in Ephesians 5:22-24 "Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything."

Husbands are put in authority over their wives just as Jesus is in authority over the church. But who is the servant? Christ? Or the church? Ah! Both are servants of each other! The church serves and adheres to the guidance and authority of Christ. But Jesus was also a humble servant of his beloved church. He became even the lowest of servants! John 13:5 "After that, He (Jesus) poured water into a basin and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded."

John MacArthur expounds the awesomeness of this passage for us: "The dusty and dirty conditions of the region necessitated the need for foot washing. Although the disciples most likely would have been happy to wash Jesus' feet, they could not conceive of washing each other's feet. This was because in the society of the time, foot washing was reserved for the lowliest of menial servants." Jesus became the lowliest of menial servants for the church He so dearly loved.

So if you think the bible is telling wives to be submissive in authority to their husbands, you are right, but only half right. For husbands are also to serve their wives as a servant much like Jesus Christ did for us. Ephesians 5:28-29 "So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church."

So marriage is a partnership and unity of man and wife, two people equal in Christ and comparable to each other. Wives are to submit and respect their husbands and their authority while husbands are to love and cherish and serve their wives as they serve their own bodies and their own needs. It is a beautiful harmony created by a perfect and loving God. Thus says the Lord. Thus says the word of God. If you have any issues with any of these, do not take it up with your preacher or your friends or men or even me. Take it up with God, for it is how He designed it and how He ordained its perfection and beauty.
 
Gods_Peon said:
...he wants us to step out of the box and commands us to, eek, Love our wives.
Click to expand...
I loved your entire post, GP. I found the survey fascinating...not surprising, yet it is always wonderful to see the world's knowledge agreeing with Biblical principle.

The part I quoted, however, truly bothers me and I want to learn from this. When a couple marry, it is out of deep love. Now, I fully understand that the sacrificial Love of Christ that husbands are commanded to have toward their wives, would be considered the greatest love, and not so easily achievable. I guess what I have always wondered is where does the love go? It starts out deep and abiding...yet if God is commanding men to love, then that is obvious something that they must work toward. What can a wife do, besides the respect that we have already mentioned, to help her husband have an easier time in this area? What is it that we do that makes us so difficult to love? Why do men find it more difficult to love?

I know, so many questions! Yet, a wife willing to submit, will also have a hearts desire to be well pleasing to her husband.
 
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Frankly my dear, I don't give a Satan. Hehe. It is Satan that has ruined our marriages as well as the temptations of the world and of our own flesh. What do you see in advertisements and television commercials? The average person? The pregnant woman? Plus sizes? No. Its "spoiled, stupid
little stick figures with poofy lips who think only about themselves" And its these thin, athletic, or muscular models that make people appeal and drool. When one gets married, they have high expectations for someone who is slim and trim and perfect with no flaws or issues. Love a dream and a fantasy for them. But when they marry, they find that love is not perfection or slim bodies. True love is dedication, devotion, and committment in spite of hardships, baggage, failings, and flaws.

My advice to any woman or man is to not rush into marriage. Find that special someone who is in the Lord, and not someone 'religious' or worldly. And spend your time with that someone to get to know them and their true personality, and make sure they are doing the same. Love has been distorted and corrupted by today's world, and we as Christians must sift carefully to find the true love that God has ordained for His children.

Men. Is she a Godly woman? Is Jesus Christ first in her heart? Does she go to bars or to church? Does she listen to you? Does she accept you for your flaws? Does she walk a life of love and patience and kindness like Christ? Can you accept her for her flaws and her baggage? Are you looking at her heart and not at her body? Remember, while the body will fail and droop, the heart and mind and spirit will grow stronger if you encourage her.

Women. Is he a Godly man? Does he like to pray and read scriptures? What kinds of friends does he keep? Is he good at making decisions? Is he someone you are willing to trust your life with? Is he someone you can unquestionably trust with your heart and life? Does he love you for your walk in Christ, or does he just like how you look? Have you shared your flaws with him and he accepted them? Do you accept his flaws? Remember, we guys aren't perfect, but the ones that seek Christ with all their beings are the ones you should look for.

Just some advice. hehe
 
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