WOW what a DAY FOR PROPHECY!

*Ducks for cover as the whole political woes of previous threads get ready to explode*

That is code for "I am watching this thread"
 
Watch as you will brother, but this is not an attack on the President of the United States..this is more a celebration of God's Divine Will taking place. Obviously as a Christian, I do not and will never support his anti-Israel Stance, His abortion stance, his health care stance or his stomping on this Constitution, but my earlier post was pointing to prophetic signs. ;) I seriously doubt that there are any Christians that would be offended by that link or would even argue in favor of the president, but again it isnt necessarily about him.
 
Taneres said:
I seriously doubt that there are any Christians that would be offended by that link or would even argue in favor of the president, but again it isnt necessarily about him.
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lol...

Look up some of the older threads dealing with politics. They get "interesting" fast.

But as a real fast simple question... what's Christianity got to do with his healthcare reform?
 
Christian Right vs Obamacare

MOD NOTE: Please always cite the sources from where you are cutting and pasting your information . This following comes from http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n5296796.shtml /MOD NOTE

As the president prepares to address a joint session of Congress on Wednesday night to press for health-care reform, conservative Christian leaders are rallying their troops to oppose him, with online town hall meetings, church gatherings, fundraising appeals, and e-mail and social networking campaigns. FRC Action, the lobbying arm of the Family Research Council, has scheduled a webcast Thursday night for tens of thousands of supporters in which House Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) and other speakers will respond to the president's health-care address.

"Movements do better when they have something to oppose," said D. Michael Lindsay, a sociology professor at Rice University who studies evangelicals. "It's easier to fundraise in those kinds of situations. It's easier to mobilize volunteers because you have an us versus them mentality, and that plays very well right now for the Christian right."

After seeing their bread-and-butter issue of abortion take a back seat during the election last year, the Christian right has been a prime force in moving it back to the front row by focusing on it as a potential part of health-care reform.

"It's a busy time," said Tom Minnery, senior vice president of Focus on the Family Action, the lobbying arm of Focus on the Family. He said donations to Focus Action have climbed beyond expectations, although he declined to say by how much.
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Experts say the resurgent interest is proving that predictions of the death of the Christian right -- endemic before the election -- were again premature. But they say the recent flurry of activity does nothing to solve the underlying challenges facing the movement -- the lack of younger leaders to replace aging ones and ways to engage younger evangelicals who want the movement to embrace a wider range of issues.

But, for the moment, conservative Christian leaders are riding high on opposing health-care reform.

" Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid and Henry Waxman have done more to energize Christian conservatives than any conservative leader could have done with this health-care package," said Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist's Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission. "I, who never believed that we were dead, did not believe that it would happen this quickly."

Polls show that the health-care packages on the Hill are widely unpopular among evangelicals. More than seven in 10 white evangelical Protestants in the most recent Washington Post-ABC News poll said they are dissatisfied or angry about the Democratic reform proposals.

A coalition of three dozen conservative Christian organizations, representing 5 million people and calling itself the Freedom Federation, announced its formation last month. It has taken on opposition to health-care reform as its first issue.

"We're not having to build a grand new organization. We're using the strengths of other organizations that understand the needs of their particular constituencies," said Mathew Staver, dean of the Liberty University School of Law and an organizer of the Freedom Federation.

Christian right leaders say it is too soon to tell whether health-care reform will trigger a flood of donations, but they are encouraged by the response they are seeing in other ways.

Gary Bauer, who heads the socially conservative group American Values, said that the list of addresses to which he sends his daily e-mail alerts was down to 170,000 and that he was getting only 50 requests a week to sign up for it before the election. Now, he said, the e-mail list is up to 225,000, and he is getting 1,000 or more requests a week asking to be added.

"The passion that was so evident in the Obama campaign right now, at least, has shifted to our side," he said.

Laura Olson, professor of politics at Clemson University, said health-care reform has been a way to rally Christian conservatives and get them back into the national conversation.

"It has the potential to remind people in that sector. . . of the American electorate that, 'This is really one of our core concerns, and here's a new manifestation of it,' " Olson said. "It puts a whole new coat of paint on it and makes it even more useful strategically."
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I dont think I have heard any Christians I know arguing for this particular president. Keep in mind, as we Christians know...Abortion is murder, Standing against Israel is Standing against God. We could go for days, but as a Christian, it is hard to support any politician..Repub or Dem..but there is no way the Spirit would allow me to vote Liberal..impossible...I dont even see how a Christian could vote that way.
 
I didn't need a quote telling me whats going on or who thinks this or that. We get enough of that every day. :)

I want to know what you think Christianity has do to with healthcare reform.
 
Taneres please do a search on the forum for previous threads on this. It is clear that there are people on this forum who supported the current US president (or did) and do not agree with your point of view.

Having said that I think this is an interesting thread and I would like it to continue but lets keep discussion focused on arguments and not individuals and on respect for differing points of view.
 
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sorry for any confusion on the links...and I find it fascinating that a christian really could support Obama...please forgive me for my surprise.
Obamacare problems I have include: Taxpayer funded murder(ie: abortion), and end of life counseling(ie: cut your life short and save us money) just to name two.
Are you for real that there are Christians that support Obama?!? Or is it people just screwing or trolling around with you
 
my dad supports obama, and he was the first christian in his family. And to my knowledge, only christian in his family. I don't support obama however, so I'm right there with you, taneres. :) But I do believe in respecting our brethren in christ as ppar has stated.
 
Taneres, I don't understand it either, but there are alot of Christians these days who don't take Abortion as a vote-deciding issue. For a host of reasons they feel that other issues out weigh the abortion one.

I do not follow that line of thinking, myself. Abortion is a horrible thing and worth fighting against. I think it is a #1 deal breaker and even if I agreed with 99% of Obama's views (I don't) I still could never vote for him due to His unbelievable acceptance and even promotion of Abortion rights.

It blows my mind when I see Obama bumper stickers in the church parking lot, but it is not for me to judge them based on a vote. I do not know the motives behind their support of Obama and until I do, I should try hard not to form an opinion on them. Ultimately, God's will is being done and as you are pointing out, prophecy is being fulfilled.
 
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hehehe, i got called a nazi for saying i loved Ronald Reagan yesterday. anywho thats crazy stuff the UN, guess the Lord gets to call me home sooner than i expected
 
Atown said:
anywho thats crazy stuff the UN, guess the Lord gets to call me home sooner than i expected
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Don't be so sure. History tends to follow either a cyclical pattern or a downward spiral. In this case, I think there's a good chance of the pendulum swinging back toward conservatives before irreversible damage is done.

Though the backlash against trends leaning toward socialism is regarded by liberal media as the raving of ultra-conservatives, the polls show Obama's approval ratings dropping. The near-religious fervor that surrounded Obama during his campaign is fading and reality is setting in. To borrow a quote, "This has all happened before, and it will all happen again."

Any party in power will lose power at some point, regardless of their political stance. It's the nature of political power and the concept, in some form, is built into the "balance of power" and "checks and balances" principles at the core of the original design of the United States government.

I think the national healthcare issue has done more to rally conservative Christians than any other issue in recent years (which, in a way, is sad, given Obama's votes against the Born Alive Act during his time as Senator were an issue during his presidential campaign).

I vote based on Biblical principles, which I understand paints me as a religious zealot in the eyes of mainstream America. I rest assured in the knowledge that Scripture is the one constant in the repeating cycles of history. In studying human history, I'm fascinated by the shortsightedness of humanity and our insistence on repeating the same mistakes time and time again. The last time a political leader approved euthanasia, things didn't go so well.

I also keep in mind that God gave us free will and that includes the will to destroy ourselves. The United States is still one of the least oppressive governments in the world and citizens are still free to practice the Christian faith. Regardless of the political climate, Christians are called to glorify God.
 
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Taneres said:
Obamacare problems I have include: ... end of life counseling(ie: cut your life short and save us money) ...
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That whole thing got blown out of proportion. The proposal says that end of life counseling will be covered for those that want it, not that it is in any way mandatory or required. So if you've got a terminal disease or something and want counseling it will be covered.
 
Annath is correct about what the propose legislation says - the issue for me is where it is leading. Even an innocuous provision like 'counselling' - in the hands of people who do not believe in the sanctity of human life can become the rule - as we have seen in the headlines about public health care in UK and Canada this past week.

It was just 'counselling' for teenage girls that ended up with abortions without telling parents.

If the government cannot manage a program for old and damaged cars - I do not trust them to handle old and damaged people.
 
Id like to point out that the things people are scared of already happen...

Insurance companies already tell you what doctors you can and can't see... therefore when you change jobs (your healthcare can't always follow you) "your doctor" may be another doctor. That is the concern about rationing doctors.

Another one is death panels... this one makes me laugh. Insurance companies currently do this, as do psychologists and other doctors. They help you plan for when you die... they don't tell you when, where and how to die... The people like Sarah Palin and some of the other conservatives tickle me when they speak about these "terrors". Part of the new legislation covers the preexisting conditions issue. If they are trying to get rid of that, then why would they want people to die? It seems counter-intuitive.

Some label me a liberal.. thats fine. :) I think abortion is murder. I'll give you guys time to get back in your chairs...

I think that abortion should not be used in the place of birth control (condoms, pills etc). I think that it should only be used and be covered under insurance if AND ONLY IF the mother will die if the baby is born. Birthed babies can and should be adopted if the mother wanted to abort it.

In the end more people will have healthcare at their disposal, people who could not afford it earlier can have it now. Whats wrong with that?

It seems like a very Christian thing to do... help the needy not die because they couldn't afford to live.
 
Taneres said:
my earlier post was pointing to prophetic signs
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Atown said:
thats crazy stuff the UN, guess the Lord gets to call me home sooner than i expected
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Keep in mind not every Christian believes in Tim LaHaye's interpretation of Revelation. I, for one, tend to side with Hank Hanegraaf. I would strongly suggest reading other sides of the debate, as they can be eye opening.

Tek7 said:
"This has all happened before, and it will all happen again."
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Thank you for the BSG quote. Made me smile. Let's just agree to forget the apocalypse that was the last hour of that great epic and pretend it never happened.

Tek7 said:
I think the national healthcare issue has done more to rally conservative Christians than any other issue in recent years.
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I often times wonder, with all the protests and ranting, how many people actually know what they're talking about? These rallied Christians are so passionately against national healthcare, but do they know why? Is it just because certain religious leaders or Fox News says so?
 
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Just a reminder to everyone that when you cut and paste large sections of other peoples work it is required of you that you cite and provide a link to the original source. This is not only poliet but a requirement. The same goes for short quotes but just a name or indication of where it comes from without a link will be sufficient. It is my strong view that it is better to be over cautious than under cautious in this regard to ensure that people who have done the hard work get credit for that work.

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Odale said:
*snip

Some label me a liberal.. thats fine. :) I think abortion is murder. I'll give you guys time to get back in your chairs...
*snip
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*comes out from the shadows*
Better to be called a liberal than a libertarian. ;)
*sneaks back to the shadows*
 
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