Atheistic morals

Is that task to burn for eternity? With no chance of remission and no option for change?
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John 3
16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
 
Just to avoid any comfusion on the subject, I am a Calvanist. I believe that God has chosen who will be saved and who will not. This has been done in order to best reveal His glory to us.
Yes there are some people who are created to go to Hell. But even so, they deserve it because they are sinners.

Does this make God cruel or evil? The anwer is most definanltly no!
I would suggest reading Romans 9. Specifically verses 20-23.
 
hescominsoon said:
Yes because even though the offer of salvation is open to all not all will choose to take it.
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Why do you think that is?

Because we're evil? Stubborn? God cast a strong delusion on us? What? I'd love to hear this.
 
Hov fun! I'm going to go play civ III until my eyes pop out of their sockets. Pm me once some one answers my question.
 
Yes because even though the offer of salvation is open to all not all will choose to take it.
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Why do you think that is?

Because we're evil? Stubborn? God cast a strong delusion on us? What? I'd love to hear this.
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1) We are not able to take the offer. We are spiritually dead.

2) Yes, we are evil. When Adam sinned, it corrupted the entire human race. We now can do nothing but evil. (I said this before and I'll say it again. We can do moral acts, but we cannot do good acts in God's sight unless He has changed us.)

3) God has chosen who He will save and has changed their natures so that they are now capable of 'choosing' Him.
 
Snake_Six said:
Just to avoid any comfusion on the subject, I am a Calvanist. I believe that God has chosen who will be saved and who will not. This has been done in order to best reveal His glory to us.
Yes there are some people who are created to go to Hell. But even so, they deserve it because they are sinners.

Does this make God cruel or evil? The anwer is most definanltly no!
I would suggest reading Romans 9. Specifically verses 20-23.
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Say what?

That's amazing how you can talk out of both sides of your mouth at the same time.

How does a "loving" God create people specifically to rot in hell for eternity?

You say they "deserve" it because they are sinners, but aren't ALL humans sinners?

Doesn't Calvinism state that if you aren't one of God's chosen, you are destined to go to hell, no matter how much of a Christian you THINK you are? Sounds like a crapshoot to me, one that I would be worried about if I were you.

I was flipping through the channels this morning and stopped on a preacher bashing Calvinists left and right and I couldn't understand why.

Now I know.
 
Snake_Six said:
1) We are not able to take the offer. We are spiritually dead.

2) Yes, we are evil. When Adam sinned, it corrupted the entire human race. We now can do nothing but evil. (I said this before and I'll say it again. We can do moral acts, but we cannot do good acts in God's sight unless He has changed us.)

3) God has chosen who He will save and has changed their natures so that they are now capable of 'choosing' Him.
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You are contradicting yourself, so I'll give you an opportunity to clarify.

You say that man can do moral acts, but cannot do good actus unless he has changed us.

That means that man can do moral acts without God, hence nonChristians CAN be moral.

I would like you to define GOOD, because as I see it, the world is full of GOOD nonChristians.

I hope this underscores the problems people have with haughty Christians like yourself. You are pointing the finger at everyone outside your little club and ******oops*******oops*******oops*******oops* us to hell, claim we aren't moral and now state that we aren't even good.
 
Genesis1315 said:
no more so than anyone else :p
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You can be as self-depricating as you want, but don't drag the rest of us down with you.

YOU may be evil, but I am not. And I don't need the fear of punishment from an invisible sky daddy to hold me in check. That's a little thing called morality.
 
DV, we are all deserving of Hell. The reason that some are destined to go to Hell and some aren't is that this is the best way for God to reveal His glory to us that we may in return glorify Him all the more (as if He actually needed our feeble praise).

The reason people don't like Calvanism is it totally removes humans from any position of athourity. We do nothing, it is all done by God. People don't like to hear that they are a sinner on their way to Hell and that they can't do anything about it unless God changes their heart.
 
DV, here is the difference between moral acts and good acts:
If a man stops a robbery one day it is a moral act, but if he is unregenerate then it is still a sin to God.
If he becomes a Christian the night and the next day performs the exact same action, then it is a good act as it is done with the intention to glorify God.

The reason people still do moral acts is because God gave us a conscience that tell us what is right and wrong, according to God's law, but most people have seared theirs and no longer listen to it. But that morality they perform still comes from God's law.

Yes DV, you are evil, so were the rest of us before God changed us. True Christians aren't 'haughty', they realize what they were before God saved them. True Christians want everybody to be saved (even though we know that it won't happen). I make the distinction "True" Christian because there are a lot of people out there calling themsalves Christian whos action belie their words.
 
I don't agree completely with what Snake_Six is saying, and I don't think they should be thrown into what ALL Christians believe.

I believe GOD knows who will be going to heaven after they die because he is omnicient, but I don't believe he has created humans for the sole purpose to go to hell. I believe He has given each human a chance to believe in Him - which will lead them to heaven.
 
hescominsoon said:
It's not God's fault some chose not to take the gift.
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It's not that easy and you know it.

There's a difference between an atheist and an apostate.

Besides, according to Snake, it IS God's fault.

Once you two get on the same page, then come see me.
 
You make it sound MUCH easier than it actually is.

I do not refuse anything, and I resent the implication. It's much easier for you to call me stubborn than to actually admit that you could be wrong about your beliefs.

What exactly about my position "blows your mind"?

hescominsoon said:
All have fallen short of thbe glory of God. Not one man is worthy of salvation. However God in his Love for us gave us a way out from the damnation we deserved through Jesus Christ. You know this DV. It still blows my mind you have not only turned away but refuse to see what is so simply right in front of you. I pray for you often DV. God has placed you on my heart(whether you like it or not). You say you hae to see things with your own eyes..or that you have to have facts that are scientifically proven. All God asks for is faith..something you do every single day.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing comes by the word of God. You knew this to be true..and i bet deep down inside your soul in that area you have blocked off for whatever reason the knowledge of the truth is there.
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Snake_Six said:
DV, here is the difference between moral acts and good acts:
If a man stops a robbery one day it is a moral act, but if he is unregenerate then it is still a sin to God.
If he becomes a Christian the night and the next day performs the exact same action, then it is a good act as it is done with the intention to glorify God.

The reason people still do moral acts is because God gave us a conscience that tell us what is right and wrong, according to God's law, but most people have seared theirs and no longer listen to it. But that morality they perform still comes from God's law.

Yes DV, you are evil, so were the rest of us before God changed us. True Christians aren't 'haughty', they realize what they were before God saved them. True Christians want everybody to be saved (even though we know that it won't happen). I make the distinction "True" Christian because there are a lot of people out there calling themsalves Christian whos action belie their words.
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So only Christians can be good? And you STILL think you aren't haughty? You may not THINK you are, but to others, your words and attitudes make it quite clear.

Are you sure GOOD is the word you're looking for? I asked you to define it and you haven't done so. My dictionary doesn't say anything about needing God to be good.

Just because evil exists in the world doesn't mean that man is inherantly evil.
 
Goose62 said:
I don't agree completely with what Snake_Six is saying, and I don't think they should be thrown into what ALL Christians believe.

I believe GOD knows who will be going to heaven after they die because he is omnicient, but I don't believe he has created humans for the sole purpose to go to hell. I believe He has given each human a chance to believe in Him - which will lead them to heaven.
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And here's the problem, Christians can't even agree amongst themselves.

So which one of you isn't a "true" Christian?
 
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