Guild Warehouse

U

UXZero

Tribe of Judah Aion Chapter Leader
The Guild warehouse is only accessible by me an janc. So if you need something or would like to contribute. Contact us.

Items in the Guild Warehouse will only be given to your main character!


Currently available -

Shield - lvl 8 green
Leather jacket - lvl 7 green
Leather shoes - lvl 12 green
Steel brestplat - lvl 13
Steel plate boots - lvl 13
Steel plate greaves - lvl 13
Hill chain cap - lvl 17
Elf belt - lvl 17, +3 magic attack
Rose Quarts ring - lvl 15, +3 flight green
Hill orb - lvl 17

Note:
Idealy I would like to get a couple pieces of armor, that can rotate people in the guild.
 
What does the Legion have a need for at this time? Are we in need of donations toward Legion rank 2 or 3 and the custom emblem? I would assume this would be the largest contribution we would need. I will try to help raise some pennies (till I am higher lvl) to donate.

I think I will also stick to cooking for the time being and donate mats I gather for the Legion vault.
 
to voice my opinion, I think the wharehouse/guild bank should be open to all members to give and take. Sure I have been in guilds where we have been robbed, but you take that risk to include everyone and make all feel like they are trusted and valued.

I would much rather put my greens in the guild bank then vendor them.
 
I don't know about a fully open guild bank. 1 bad apple can ruin it for a lot of people and make a lot of hard work disappear instantly. Until you know how good NC support is at resolving issues like bank theft I would probably at least require the member to be in guild 30days before they can freely take everything. Just my thoughts from being in tons of MMOs. :)
 
I would probably at least require the member to be in guild 30days before they can freely take everything. Just my thoughts from being in tons of MMOs.
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That does sound reasonable. I'll check with Janc, an see about doing that. :)
 
Well, perhaps those who've been part of several bad MMO guilds/legions have a different point of view. But to me, access is a measure of trust and responsibility.

If we have a guild warehouse where things can be stored and I'm not permitted to access it, then there's no way I'm going to put stuff in that I can't get back out. To me, its a personal matter of trust. Either I'm trusted or I'm not. If I'm trusted, then I expect full access (and with it a responsibility to help others whenever possible). If I'm not trusted, then I expect no access (and no responsibility to help anyone but myself).

Simply put: No access = no contribution

'nuff said :cool:
 
I respond here just to continue discussion, I am not trying to be authoritarian in any way. Just giving some thoughts as well.

Taran, I think (perhaps) you are missing the point of a "Legion" bank. The concept is that people donate generously to the Legion as a whole by giving to the bank. Then these items can used to a) help new guildies who are broke b) gear up fellow guildies "main toons" who need it c) store up funds to help pay for Legion activities. Stuff like this and more. The purpose is not for us to have more personal storage space or to use for our own best interest. It is to be for the Legion's best interest.

It is definitely in the Legions best interest that we protect the guild bank. Leaving it wide open for a new member to steal us blind and /gquit would be poor leadership in my opinion.

Most MMOs that have well developed guild banks, have tiers. Certain ranks in the guild have more access to each tier. Like the lowest rank can donate to all tiers but only withdraw from the lowest tier. If Aion does not allow tiers but only has 1 giant guild bank then security has to be considered.

Of course we could come up with other ways to deal with this, if you are offended by limitations on access. Many guilds have a official "bank toon" that is managed by the guild banker. You mail items/kinah to this person and they are responsible to distribute them as the leadership feels proper.

Ultimately I think (and I could be wrong) that more people will be less inclined to use the guild bank if they know a valuable blue-item they donated can freely be taken by an alt toon or a brand new member. Not being used in the "Legion's" best interest. I think this outweighs the people that wont use the bank because they don't have free withdrawel access.
 
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No, I understand the principle of collective contribution. Its a very socialist approach to community resources. The system works well when those who have control are good people who can be trusted with group resources.

The trouble is, no one is above temptation. Without checks and balances, the property of many is under the control of only a few. And in my opinion that's a recipe, not only for temptation, but for abuse.

And since I'm not a socialist and do not believe in the "goodness" of people (I happen to believe everyone has an inclination to sin), therefore I will not participate in such a socialist setup. I'm not saying you shouldn't; I'm not saying no one should. I'm just saying I'm not. I believe in the free enterpise system of equal partnership.

Can free enterprise be abused? Yes. Can a socialist system be abused? Yes. There is no perfect system that going to protect a guild/legion bank from abuse or theft.

As far as ranks having access, well, that's different than just having one or two people with total access and everyone else with nothing (which is what exists now). I mean, other members of the cannot even see into the guild bank let alone take out an object or two. Right now its run like it was someone's piggy bank to distribute whatever someone else deems as 'worthy.' And I'm saying that's not a good system.

As far as having new members having total access, I would agree that further safeguards would be warranted. But limiting new members only prevents the "new" joining member from abusing the bank with whatever timelimit is set up. If someone's account gets hacked, that hacker would have all the access and privileges of that person's account and there's nothing we could do to stop that.

Now you're last point was quite interesting:

Ultimately I think (and I could be wrong) that more people will be less inclined to use the guild bank if they know a valuable blue-item they donated can freely be taken by an alt toon or a brand new member.
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Here is another implied problem. If a person donates to the guild bank, then shouldn't the donation be without strings attached? I mean, the person has given an item away. It sounds like your statement above is implying that a new member of the legion or an alt is "unworthy" of receiving it? If so, then who gets to decide who is worthy and who is not to receive freely donated items? What standards will be applied before approval will be met? Who monitors the "Chief FInancial Officer" to make sure favoritism isn't occuring?

Let's apply that statement to an example: Right now, our legion has many different characters. We're young, but growing. That means we also have a variety of roles being filled, but in some cases, not much redundancy. Kan, has a great Templar. Templars are used for tanking (an important role if we do dungeons/instances). But if Kan is unavailable, do we have any back up tanks? Well, we're getting some alts coming up and some are growing in level (so there should be some in the near future). But according to the statement above, if that Templar is someone's alt, even if they are a member of the legion, they're not allowed to pick up a blue shield to help that character?

I thought the point of having a legion bank was so that we could contribute materials that would help other people? But according to that statement, the legion bank exists only to help primary characters. If you roll a level 25 Sorcerer an just discover The Elect on Siel, you can't have anything from the guild bank because you're new? Or if you roll a level 19 Templar as an alt and there's a nice level 19 blue shield that would help you, you're not allowed to pick it up because its an alt?

Sorry, but I don't agree with those kinds of rules. And hence, I return to my previous statement: No access = no contribution. And even if those kinds of rules are in place, its just simpler not to take anything even for a main character. That way I won't have to worry about offending anyone for whatever unwritten rules might exist. Just bypass the whole mess altogether.
 
Just my 2c here: one of the things we're still trying to sort out here is that legion ranks are very limited...there are only 3 available ranks within the legion, so we're trying to be careful in setting up permissions with a brand new legion. So far there's leader, officer and everyone else - that's all we have available for setting up access to rights within the legion. :)

Discussion is good, we'll get things worked out.
 
Some very good thoughts there Taran. I appreciate the dialogue. It does sound like you are a bit frustrated or upset, I pray that is not the case. I do not mean to offend.

I think you read too much into my last statement. I agree that a new player is a perfect candidate for a guild bank item. I also think a lvl 19 tank should def grab a lvl 19 shield. I think that my statement refers more to the endgame that will happen eventually. As we are in the endgame and very rare items drop, we will want a secure way to donate them to people in the guild's best interest. That is historically what guild banks have done and usually written rules are established to address that. The general MMO crowd feels that players main toon has priority over an alt as they are playing their main more and the item will help the guild more that way. I have not seen the Aion guild bank, but it sounds very limited if you cant even peek inside. Perhaps the standard MMO guild bank will not apply in Aion if it so limiting. Personally, I am just defending the most common thoughts on MMO guild banks, but I am gladly open to a different way to look at things.

All in all I trust and submit to the guild leadership. Regardless of sin, I will give them my trust and assume they will not abuse their power. I am sure they will come up with as good of a solution as possible and I imagine our discussion helps them with that.

Ultimately it all comes down to how expectations are set. If the Legion decides to make the bank free for all or limited to certain situations and that is communicated clearly then everyone will expect that and can donate appropriately. In the end we just need to manage expectations and have communication and it will work out.
 
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Many Legion leaders are complaining about the way the bank privileges work.
for example, heres a link Link

I know in World of Warcraft, the guild bank system and member rank system were very flexible.
One could have many ranks with many different combinations of bank access.
This is not so with Aion, currently.

As an idea to go along with whatever policies we adopt.
I've always liked the concept of, if you take something - then deposit something.
 
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Wow, for a game that is so advanced in many ways, it sure is an underwhelming bank they gave us. Just about every MMO out there has a better implemented one. Lets hope they are putting some development that way.

I remember the first few years of WoW with no guild bank. We would send everything via mail to a bank toon and then on Friday nights we would have a huge bank give away where the item would be listed and the first person to whisper the banker got the item.
 
erikkennedy777 said:
to voice my opinion, I think the wharehouse/guild bank should be open to all members to give and take. Sure I have been in guilds where we have been robbed, but you take that risk to include everyone and make all feel like they are trusted and valued.
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I restate this because it is the key to a guild bank. The ability to take items as needed, and to give items so others who have needs can take freely, without having to go through a series of checks and balances that depend on the availablity of a guild bank character or an officer.

30 days probation sounds like a good idea, but in my experience an active player most needs help within the first 30 days. I am not opposed to this trial period, just saying.

I fully expect that the guild will be taken advantage of, but much less being a christian guild. It is the response of the guild leader that is important. It is unfortunate if Aion does not have multi tiered bank slots with seperate permissions, but guild trust and the feeling of belonging outweighs the risk of losing digital information.

Feelings and people are real, not items in this game. Getting robbed vs creating a family atmosphere of trust and responsibility should be a no brainer for us. We are a guild for the friendship, not for the gold and items and assistance in leveling, although those are benefits to being part of a family.

If you are worried about security, I can only say don't be. If some one wants your cloak of invisibity +2, do not withhold from them your tunic of awsomeness. Pray for those who mistreat you. Be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another before you boot them from the legion for stealing.

Allowing newish players and legion members full access is like making an investment. By giving them capital in the beginning of their career, you expect that when their toons are older, they in turn will put some of their profits into the pot.

In fighting about gold and gear is not inviting. If there are only three guild ranks at the moment, then I suggest making everyone who has been part of the guild for 30 days or more an officer, leaving the structure to be 1. guild leader, 2. initiated members, 3. new players. I would even suggest that if the new player is a member of ToJ for more than 30 days and has a good rep from another chapter that the 30 days in The Elect could be waved.

Either way I don't really care about the stuff in the bank. I would like to give and take as needed, but I can manage without it if I had to. It just doesn't seem like good policy to me to convey a message of distrust based on what people could do, or what other people have done.

Love you brothers.

P.S. I think taking items out of the bank should be limited to a persons main. People who like to make five or six toons should not be able to abuse the legion by equipping all their toons from the guild bank. A players own main should supply their alts, in most cases.
 
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erikkennedy777 said:
If you are worried about security, I can only say don't be. If some one wants your cloak of invisibity +2, do not withhold from them your tunic of awesomeness. Pray for those who mistreat you. Be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another before you boot them from the legion for stealing.
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I love that part! :)
 
Some very good thoughts there Taran. I appreciate the dialogue. It does sound like you are a bit frustrated or upset, I pray that is not the case. I do not mean to offend.
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Ewoksrule, didn't mean to sound frustrated or upset. In fact, I've been feeling rather bland about it, almost apapthetic. The most stimulating part has been dialogue regarding it. :D

So, its all good on this end, bro. :cool:

Feelings and people are real, not items in this game. Getting robbed vs creating a family atmosphere of trust and responsibility should be a no brainer for us. We are a guild for the friendship, not for the gold and items and assistance in leveling, although those are benefits to being part of a family.
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If there was any statement that could summarize my own views, Erikkennedy777 really hit it. Family, not stuff. Well put! ;)
 
In my old DAoC guild, we had a saying from a guild member on our homepage that basically stated that a member's value to the guild wasn't in levels, or crafting, but in personality, loyalty, and good will towards guild mates. That pretty much drove our guild.

I think we have that covered well here...the rest is just details. :D

Oh, and on this subject...if there's something you need from the warehouse and I'm on, let me know and I'll make every effort to drop what I'm doing and see if it's there to get it for you.
 
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P.S. I think taking items out of the bank should be limited to a persons main. People who like to make five or six toons should not be able to abuse the legion by equipping all their toons from the guild bank. A players own main should supply their alts, in most cases.
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The best idea with the current system, seems to be granting full bank access after a trial period. An if someone needs something prior to that, they can ask.
I also agree that guild bank items should be limited to main chars, however exceptions can be made. Like with the Templar situation you mentioned.

Personally, I would like to give 10k to all new members below lvl 10. If they are higher then that at joining, I try to make an extra point of helping them with some quests.

We had a good surge the past week of people joining. An it's been difficult enough, to stay on top of that plus everything else. So, I haven't been able to help those new to the guild as I wanted.

erikkennedy777:
Your quote had me laughing hard for a while. Thus it has attained signature status. :cool:
 
I was playing with options on how to allow people to use the Legion warehouse.

As it stands Aion limitations are -
1.) There can only be 1 General
2.) You can not change individual permissions
3.) You can not change Rank 3, permissions

Which means that only Rank 1 or 2 can access the Legion warehouse. So, if we want to allow people access to the warehouse, I have to elevate them to Rank 2. But then they would receive the ability to invite; which ToJ rules make me moderate.

Thus our options are:
A. I keep help like Janc, and no open access to Legion warehouse
B. I become the only 1 who can manage in-game stuff. An promote others who have been trusted to access warehouse.

As I really don't want to be stranded all by myself with management. Were stuck with option A until they change the game settings. :(
 
K I was thinking about this deeper and I have the answer. I know the system is sub-par so let's do our best to use it for what it is. The Elect bank is off limits for now. Make an alt Legion called Bankers of Elect or something of the sort. Each current member is allowed one alt in that legion to use as their "bank alt". Send to them to deposit/withdraw etc. All new members will have a trial period before being allowed a bank alt in this legion. Any items of extreme worth or monies to go for guild funds goes to Kan and Ogy as they do now to be put in to The Elect bank. This allows all members to have access to a bank and supply other members with stuff and use whatever they need as well as provide a community building option to a sub-par legion system.

Rules for this Alt Bank:

Don't put it in if you would be sad if it was gone!

As Christians expect that anything that leaves the bank is being used by a member to help prosper their ingame experience in one way or another and that is what we are in a legion for anyways.

If needed I can start this alt guild and keep track of new member sign-ups for the trial period and inform them when an alt may be added. I would also help manage/organize the new bank the best we can. This is to help Kan and Ogy not have to do anything extra that is not needed and am doing this to help all of us have access to a Legion warehouse where this system has not yet.

Let me know what you all think.

Mono
 
alt bank

The idea of an alt bank is perfect. I think it will allow us to share low level gear and crafting materials, food and drink, manastones, etc. Big money items I think should stay in the Elect wharehouse, and used by members who have gone through a trial period of no more than 30 days like it has been suggested. I don't think a trial period for the alt bank is needed. People need the most help during the beginning, and we don't just invite random people. Sure it's possible that someone would jump through the toj hoops to get a toon in our guild, so they can get an alt in our alt guild, so they can take some low level stuff, but honestly, I don't see that as being likely, and like Epeshian said, we would only be putting stuff in the bank in good faith, and things that we would not mind seeing being put to use right away, or even stolen.

I'm not sure who should start the guild. If you are worried about security, than either you trust one person to be in control of both legions, or if you have two different people running them, it becomes more of a risk that one legion leader would run off with all our digital food and what not. But really, am I the only one not worried about stuff? Lets just get this going. We need a daytime player to be given immediate permission to invite.

As far as invites go, even though everyone might end up having the ability to do so, it is pretty clear to me that only Janc is allowed to invite people, and once he does, they should be able to put one alt in the alt guild. If someone else invites someone, they should be booted, as that can't be done on accident. And anyone from the Elect should be able to invite another person in the Elect's alt to the alt guild.
 
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