Harry Potter is the Devil!

[Master~Plan]

Quote[/b] ]Why didn't you use this tactic in our other arguements then.

This isn't some elaborate joke. I'm not using tactics man

Quote[/b] ]You know I can't just make contact with God on a whim and get a direct answer

If you take God seriously He will take you seriously. No, I can't get answers from God "on a whim", if you really wanted to know, you would invest a little time, and you will find the answer.

Quote[/b] ]And anyway, this isn't even an issue that primarily concerns God--it concerns his followers.

well, I guess its a good thing that you know God so well...

Quote[/b] ]Now, please step outside of your aloof hive mind mentallity and think for yourself.  Is this belief that only Christians get into heaven, and that followers of all other belief systems have have merely fallen victim to Satan's surreptitious and despicable ploys, really benefiting humanity?

Belief does not dictate an outcome, I don't see why you seem to think that what you believe will change anything.

Quote[/b] ]Let us think about this...

I can safely say I have put a lot more thought in to what I believe than you. Careful about who points the finger.

Quote[/b] ]if he hears everyone he doesn't need a messenger.

non sequitur  

 

[Avesther]

Quote[/b] ]Is this belief that only Christians get into heaven, and that followers of all other belief systems have have merely fallen victim to Satan's surreptitious and despicable ploys, really benefiting humanity?

Well, it certainly doesn't benefit those who want to do what ever they want, so long as they were good enough to get into heavan.

Jesus said that nobody (meaning nobody) gets to the father except through me (Jesus, not me personally).

If Jesus is right, then the belief only Christians get into heavan is a benefit to humanity. It would be the false beliefs of others or the how some Christians get the message accross that would not be of benefit to humanity.

If Jesus lied, then we are left with what Paul said, Christians are the greatest fools of all history. And the christian beleif would not be of benefit to humanity in the case.

 

[Mr.Bill]

Quote[/b] (Master~Plan @ July 09 2004,4:26)]

Quote[/b] ]And anyway, this isn't even an issue that primarily concerns God--it concerns his followers.

well, I guess its a good thing that you know God so well...

Quote[/b] ]Now, please step outside of your aloof hive mind mentallity and think for yourself.  Is this belief that only Christians get into heaven, and that followers of all other belief systems have have merely fallen victim to Satan's surreptitious and despicable ploys, really benefiting humanity?

Belief does not dictate an outcome, I don't see why you seem to think that what you believe will change anything.

Quote[/b] ]Let us think about this...

I can safely say I have put a lot more thought in to what I believe than you. Careful about who points the finger.

I wasn't pointing a finger, I just want to emphasize that I didn't want you to blow this off.  You can safetly say that you've put more thought into what you believe that me?  Holy #### man.  Pardon my french, but, as they say, if you 'assume' you only make an ass of u and me.  I'm not attacking your what you believe, I'm attacking why you believe, I guess you could say.  You don't think that what you believe will change anything?  You're not seeing the big picture..I'm talking Christianity as a whole.  My question to you is whether the widespread belief of Christianity's superiority and subsequential approach to all other belief systems on the planet has benefitted or injured humanity.  Now that you understand, please answer the question.

 

[Mr.Bill]

Quote[/b] (Gods_Peon @ July 09 2004,4:46)]

Quote[/b] ]Is this belief that only Christians get into heaven, and that followers of all other belief systems have have merely fallen victim to Satan's surreptitious and despicable ploys, really benefiting humanity?

Well, it certainly doesn't benefit those who want to  do what ever they want, so long as they were good enough to get into heavan.

Jesus said that nobody (meaning nobody) gets to the father except through me (Jesus, not me personally).

If Jesus is right, then the belief only Christians get into heavan is a benefit to humanity.  It would be the false beliefs of others or the how some Christians get the message accross that would not be of benefit to humanity.

If Jesus lied, then we are left with what Paul said, Christians are the greatest fools of all history.  And the christian beleif would not be of benefit to humanity in the case.

That isn't what I'm talking about. Think history. Think psychology. Think discrimination. And Christianity's part in it, and why that was.

 

[Avesther]

Of course there was alot of bad things done in the name of Christianity. There are alot of bad things done under honourable banners. Hardly fair to single out Christianity.

The flip side is that there have been and continue to be an extraordinary amount of good and great things being done in the name of Christianity.



****EDIT****
There have also been alot of things done under the banner of Christianity that was not Christian at all. For example Hitler and the KKK. But, I am not denying that there has been harm and bad done by Christians through out history. So, I just want to be clear, that something have been done under the banner of Christianity that had no claim under that banner.

 

[Thaddius]

Quote[/b] (Mr.Bill @ July 09 2004,3:50)]

Quote[/b] (Gods_Peon @ July 09 2004,4:46)]

Quote[/b] ]Is this belief that only Christians get into heaven, and that followers of all other belief systems have have merely fallen victim to Satan's surreptitious and despicable ploys, really benefiting humanity?

Well, it certainly doesn't benefit those who want to  do what ever they want, so long as they were good enough to get into heavan.

Jesus said that nobody (meaning nobody) gets to the father except through me (Jesus, not me personally).

If Jesus is right, then the belief only Christians get into heavan is a benefit to humanity.  It would be the false beliefs of others or the how some Christians get the message accross that would not be of benefit to humanity.

If Jesus lied, then we are left with what Paul said, Christians are the greatest fools of all history.  And the christian beleif would not be of benefit to humanity in the case.

That isn't what I'm talking about.  Think history.  Think psychology.  Think discrimination.  And Christianity's part in it, and why that was.

Oh, I see.  Your going to blame Christians for everything that has happened since Christ came.  Ok, I got that.  Who do you blame for the discrimination before Christ came?  Can't blame it on the Christians because we weren't around yet.  Can't blame it on the Jews as they were usually the people being discriminated against.  

I see discrimination every day and you can't blame it all on religion.  It can be blamed on race, sex, money, and yes, even some on religion.  Your trying to pin the falls of the world on a religion that has not been around nearly as long as the world has, and those things existed before it did.  You want to talk history, fine, we can talk history.  Psychology?  I'll give it a shot.  

Let me remind you its not Christians that are strapping bombs to their chests and killing dozens of people at a time all around the world. (except in Ireland, and I don't think they are doing much of that anymore)

You want to talk discrimination, lets start with the muslims.  They hate everyone.

Cory

 

[Master~Plan]

Quote[/b] ]I wasn't pointing a finger, I just want to emphasize that I didn't want you to blow this off.  You can safetly say that you've put more thought into what you believe that me?  Holy #### man.  Pardon my french, but, as they say, if you 'assume' you only make an ass of u and me.  I'm not attacking your what you believe, I'm attacking why you believe, I guess you could say.  You don't think that what you believe will change anything?  You're not seeing the big picture..I'm talking Christianity as a whole.  My question to you is whether the widespread belief of Christianity's superiority and subsequential approach to all other belief systems on the planet has benefitted or injured humanity.  Now that you understand, please answer the question.

ok, I'm sorry I started to get touchy, lets try to bring this back to a calm discussion. I take what I said back about putting in thought. I have btw put many years of thought into my religion, and many years of study. Society attacks what I believe all the time, so don't think I'm some blind follower. I did take that as you pointing a finger, but I"m over it.
Anyway I think Peon, and Cory answered your question very well.

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (Thaddius @ July 09 2004,4:37)]You want to talk discrimination, lets start with the muslims. They hate everyone.

Thats a pretty strong comment. I know alot of muslums and they don't hate everyone. I know a muslum guy who sometimes I think he's more buhdist, he'll go out of his way from stepping on an ant.

The Islamic religions says u can only harm someone if they try to stop u from practicing your religion or if they kick u from your home. So these guys that are strapping bombs to their chest do not speak for every muslum in the world. They are more like Hitler and the KKK iin peon's reply.

 

[Avesther]

I think there is definatly a fundamentalist movement or a twisting in alot of the Islamic\Muslim faith. It certainly doesn't help that left wing liberalist media over sensationalizes things.

I've heard the supporters of Bin Laden say that they would have no problem bombing the "soft" (to use his words) muslims anywhere they get in his way.

The bible as states that there will always be strife between Ishmael and Isaac. And we continue to see it today.

 

[Guest]

did u see the interview on tv tonight with bin laden's half brother. The guy is so westernised. He flys his own private jet around europe. It was a good interview. But it was a good interview, he said even if he knew where bin laden was he won't turn him in, he asked if u would turn in your brother.
I probobly wouldn't turn him in either if he was my brother. I was trying to think about where in the world would he get a fair trial. Everyone already has an opinion on him.

The fighting between Israel and Palestine I guess would be supported by the qur'an since they got kicked out of their homes. Which is kind of weird, like who would add a rule that one of the reasons u can use violence is if u were kicked out of your house. Its like Muhammad knew back then that stuff like this would happen.

Quote[/b] ]God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers.

Islam and terrorism

 

[TheJfreak]

agreed

 

[Mr.Bill]

No, I'm not talking about what happened as a result of Christianity, I'm talking about why those things happened, and why other bad things, to albiet a much lesser extent, are still happening today because of it. I wanted you guys to figure it out for yourselves..because it works better that way..but oh well. See, here's the thing. Christians on the whole believe that they are going to heaven, and that everyone else is going to hell. Now, you cannot be so naive as to think that that widespread belief is not going to have a significant impact on the world, especially when you take into consideration that Christianity is the largest religion on the planet. That belief makes a profound psychological impact on a people, and can drive them to do terrible things, you know this. It makes a breeding ground for discrimination, and it's pretty much all because of that belief. Thaddius, you say that muslims hate everyone and are "strapping bombs to their chests and killing dozens of people at a time all around the world." Well, first of all, that's pretty darn ironic. For one thing, if you aren't going to 'count' atrocities by the Christians like the KKK and the Nazis, you can't count the extremist muslim groups either. But this is not some contest--but don't you see? The religions make it a contest, it's an indelible conflict, and it will never stop so long as these religions are in existance. And let me tell you a secret...were Christians in the position of the Muslims, they would be blowing up just as many dozens of people. This is not about what, this is about why. Think about it.

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (Mr.Bill @ July 10 2004,7:21)]And let me tell you a secret...were Christians in the position of the Muslims, they would be blowing up just as many dozens of people. This is not about what, this is about why. Think about it.

Thats right, even though no one agrees with me. If we were kicked out of our houses we would be be exactly the same. Also anyone remember the oaklahoma bombing. And the olympic bomber who was part of a christian militiant group.

I think we should all put down our keyboards, hug and go to Disney Land.

 

[Mr.Bill]

Quote[/b] (JoBlow @ July 10 2004,8:27)]I think we should all put down our keyboards, hug and go to Disney Land.

Oh..if only we could.. Sigh..silly humans..

 

[Master~Plan]

Quote[/b] ]That belief makes a profound psychological impact on a people, and can drive them to do terrible things, you know this.

alrite bill, I'll let u in on a little seceret. You can't tell any of the other Christians that I told you this, u gotta keep it on the dl... Christians aren't perfect... If Christians were perfect they wouldn't need God. Many people are driven to do terrible things. I don't know how u came to the conclution that its Christians that are sinful, its every human that ever existed...

Quote[/b] ]It makes a breeding ground for discrimination, and it's pretty much all because of that belief.

Hmm, I would classify that statement as unreasonable speculation, considering the Bible is against discrimination... I can call myself a musician, but If I can't read music, that just makes me a poser. I can't accuse musicians of not being able to read music. Its more reasonable to say anyone that can't read music is not a musician...

Quote[/b] ]Now, you cannot be so naive as to think that that widespread belief is not going to have a significant impact on the world

that would be the grand scheme of having a belief... It would be a pretty worthless belief if it had no impact.

Quote[/b] ]Christians like the KKK

musicians can't read music!

Quote[/b] ]indelible conflict, and it will never stop so long as these religions are in existance

there will be never ending conflict as long as man exist.

Quote[/b] ]were Christians in the position of the Muslims, they would be blowing up just as many dozens of people

glad to hear a non biased opinion, from an extablished expert on Christians...

 

[Thaddius]

Quote[/b] ]For one thing, if you aren't going to 'count' atrocities by the Christians like the KKK and the Nazis, you can't count the extremist muslim groups either

I'll count them.  Show me where Hitler claimed to be a Christian.

Here are a few quotes for you from Hitler:

Quote[/b] ]"Christianity is an invention of sick brains," Adolf Hitler, 13 December 1941.
"So it's not opportune to hurl ourselves now into a struggle with the Churches. The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death," Adolf Hitler, 14 October 1941.

And here is more information about Hitler's supposed Christianity:

Quote[/b] ]It is an established historical fact that Hitler was baptized a Roman Catholic and confirmed at age 15, and that Hitler never formally and publicly left the Catholic Church.

Hitler considered himself religious, but had only contempt for organized religion and the teachings of the church about Jesus. Hitler had his own private view of Jesus, that of an economic revolutionary and Jew hater. So in some twisted sense Hitler thought he was acting in the tradition of Jesus. If the question is, "can someone read the New Testament and then go off and do horribly bad things?" then the answer is yes. If the question is "was Hitler in the tradition of mainstream Christianity" then the answer is no.

The problem of saying "Hitler was a Christian" when by "Christian" is meant something totally different from normal usage and historical context, is that the sentence ceases to mean anything. One might as well have said "Hitler was a Zorb" because the last word is meaningless. The only "value" in saying "Hitler was a Christian" with an iconoclastic meaning for "Christian" is as a tool of anti-Christian propaganda towards the end of misleading people.

The KKK..ok I'll give you that some of the things they did was by Christians who thought that was right.  But they are the minority.  Take a look at the world around you Bill and Jo...Take a long hard look at how many muslim countries support these extremist and try to tell me they are the minority.  Its the peaceful ones who mostly live in America, mind you who are the minority.  The rest of them want us dead.  I don't care what the Qu'ran teaches, or what it claims, those  extremists out number the rest of them.  Don't believe me?  Turn on the news.  Watch the protests in Palistine, or Iran, or Pakastan, or just about any other country that is ruled by Muslims.


Now, lets get back to something, since you stillwant to try and blame all of it on Christianity.

Quote[/b] ]It makes a breeding ground for discrimination, and it's pretty much all because of that belief.

Christians were not around before Christ came.  What is your basis for discrimination before then?

Cory

 

[Mr.Bill]

Quote[/b] (Master~Plan @ July 10 2004,10:38)]

Quote[/b] ]That belief makes a profound psychological impact on a people, and can drive them to do terrible things, you know this.

alrite bill, I'll let u in on a little seceret. You can't tell any of the other Christians that I told you this, u gotta keep it on the dl... Christians aren't perfect... If Christians were perfect they wouldn't need God. Many people are driven to do terrible things. I don't know how u came to the conclution that its Christians that are sinful, its every human that ever existed...

Quote[/b] ]It makes a breeding ground for discrimination, and it's pretty much all because of that belief.

Hmm, I would classify that statement as unreasonable speculation, considering the Bible is against discrimination... I can call myself a musician, but If I can't read music, that just makes me a poser. I can't accuse musicians of not being able to read music. Its more reasonable to say anyone that can't read music is not a musician...

Quote[/b] ]Now, you cannot be so naive as to think that that widespread belief is not going to have a significant impact on the world

that would be the grand scheme of having a belief... It would be a pretty worthless belief if it had no impact.

Quote[/b] ]Christians like the KKK

musicians can't read music!

Quote[/b] ]indelible conflict, and it will never stop so long as these religions are in existance

there will be never ending conflict as long as man exist.

Quote[/b] ]were Christians in the position of the Muslims, they would be blowing up just as many dozens of people

glad to hear a non biased opinion, from an extablished expert on Christians...

I know it's easy for you to blow off what I say just becuase you think I'm a biased, misinformed, deluded person, but please, forget whatever it is you think I am and listen to what is being said. Yes, I know Christians aren't perfect. Humans aren't perfect. And anyway, I'm not talking about their imperfections, I'm talking about how a certain belief system in conjunction with those imperfections can cause major, major problems. Yes, the Bible is against discrimination, but then Christians are not walking Bibles. Unfortunately, they are humans, just like everyone else. Um, do you honestly think that Christians would not be doing the same things as the muslims were they under ths same cultural and socioeconomical situation? You're basically helping to prove my point by saying that.. Master Plan, you know how this started. I said "the world would be a much better place were it not for that belief." Let us not beat around the bush..just go for the gold. Why am I wrong?

 

[Guest]

I don't only blame christians. I was just saying u can't blame all muslums for what a few are doing. I went to school with muslums in India and Canada and the've always been great kind people.

Quote[/b] ]Watch the protests in Palistine, or Iran, or Pakastan, or just about any other country that is ruled by Muslims.

As for the protests, think about it this way, we were fighting Mexico, and u found out that Mexico was getting their weapons from Australia. Wouldn't u not like Australians, for taking sides in a fight that don't involve them. And say u say people u played cs with getting killed by missiles sold to them bu auzzies, wouldn't u start hating auzzies. I know I really need to work on my examples. But to muslums even though they don't like the violence going on between Jews and Muslums, they don't like the fact that innocent people were moved out of their houses and put into refugee camps. Then u see that americans are supplying weapons to the Israles to do this u would not like americans that much. U add on america going in to Iraq on false charges, and of cource they'll protest. I remember alot of anti war and bush protests going on all around the world.

Also not all muslums in those countries agree with the terrorists, but u have to make sure u don't alienate your self, because their countries are so volitile. But u look at Afghanistan and their favorite movie down there is Titanic, they don't hate americans, its people from other countries that are coming in to try to start violence. The same with Iraq alot of people from outside Iraq are coming in. Also americans arn't very good at blowing up stuff. They kill alot of innocent civilleans. Which gets people more upset.

But u look at Kuwait, and they have McDonalds and a JC Penny, and Levis store. And I was talking to my uncle yesterday and he moved to Dubai for a job, and he was saying he has a Hard Rocf Cafe across the street, and they have double Decker busses, and McDonalds, and huge malls. He was also saying they have a church 1 block up the street from them so they didn't have to travel far on sundays. Actually the company I did my student project with, most of their business was in the middle east. They've made playgrounds for Sultans homes, and malls in Saudi Arabia and Dudai. And I saw a pic of this one guys home and the playground was bigger than my house. The only bad thing is the playground I worked on was for a mall in the states which wasn't that big, which I guess was ok since I think I'd have to upgrade to 1GB of RAM if it was.

I have to stom rambling on,

 

[Guest]

I've always thought that if the world didn't have any religions there would probobly be less wars in the world. Not only christianity but all religions.

 

[Avesther]

WWI and WWII were not started on religious baises.  They were started by envious people who wanted to propogate their forms of atheism through out the world.  More people died in those two wars then all religious wars added up through out history.

Lets not forget the Korean and Vietnam wars. They were politically motivated. So was the cold war. With very few exceptions, we can pretty much say that all wars have been over territory expansion and not religious expansion.