I need help with a Mage build please.

Looking over your spec I get the following impressions:
1. You are fireball based (great for dps)
2. You are speccing somewhat for aoe (flamestrike + iae, and moe for aoe efficiency)
3. You are emphasizing mana effeciency as much as possible (moe + arc conc)
4. You are speccing for dps, for the most part (minus mana efficiency and ics)
5. You plan to start with a few scorches and then hammer mobs/opponents with fireball
6. You plan to use arcane explosion (ae) a fair amount (you have 5-8 talents invested in making this one spell as good as it can be).

A few suggestions:
1. remove 1 or 2 talents out of elemental precision (because the most benefit you will get out of the talent @60 is +3%, here's why.

2. Put 2 talents into incinerate (why not give yourself +4% crit when casting scorch, plus it gives you a stronger story when you need to go primarily scorch for mana effeciency, or if you need to move around more, like in pvp), it will also marry well with your selection of getting moe (master of elements).

3. Consider getting flame throwing. One way to get that is skip ics (improved counter spell). You have effectively spent 4, possibly 7 talents above arcane concentration to get it.

4. Consider getting impact, it's useful in pve, and excellent should you ever do pvp, but obviously weigh the benefits vs. cost for your build... it does work better with a scorch build, since it has more times to proc. It also has limited utillity end game, because all bosses are immune to it, and most trash mobs die terribly quickly in 10-40 man groups.

5. Consider improved fire blast. If you use the spell often, you can then use it more often and increase your dps accordingly.... especially if you use scorch a lot, because fireblast's reduced cooldown happens to match will with scorch's 1.5sec cast time.

6. Consdier skipping ics (I mentioned this above), primarily to free up talents... while it is great for pvp, in pve it doesn't have as much utility because many mobs have just one school of magic to choose from.

7. Consider shaving a single point off of improved scorch (i.e. go for 2/3) if you go for a scorch build (you won't need it to proc 100% of the time if you are chain casting the spell).

One thing to keep in mind is how many fireballs will you be able to get off vs most mobs after you have set up 3-5 fire vulnerability via scorch. In other words how dead will the mob already be, and how much utility will you then get out of the rest of your fireball heavy build. If not much, then consider going heavy into scorch, perhaps a build like this: modified build for scorch.
 
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Thanks for the input. I took ICS befcause it doubles the time mobs cant cast spells. I've never had it before, but thought it'd be useful. I could certainly live w/o it.

I took IAE for two reasons: 1) as I understand it, the purpose of mages in end-game stuff is sheep and AoE; therefore, more bang for the buck (this is also why I took Imp Flamestrike). 2) Needed to get to ICS. If I don't take ICS, should I keep IAE? If I'm wrong about a mage's duties, should I keep Imp Flamestrike?

I see your point about Incinerate. However, I've never really seen the need for flame throwing. I seldom pull, and when I do I use a frost bolt.

I already have 3 pts in elemental precision so it'll have to stay for now. Also, I can't read your link from work, so I'll have to wait until I get home.

I really want to keep my clearcasting, so that's a solid 10pts in arcane. If I give up ICS and IAE, that frees up 7 pts. Putting all of those in Fire may be overkill though. /sigh Such a...congnomedrum. ;)
 
SamIam said:
Thanks for the input. I took ICS befcause it doubles the time mobs cant cast spells. I've never had it before, but thought it'd be useful. I could certainly live w/o it.

Actually from what I understand what it does is insure that the target can't cast any spell for 4 seconds, in addition to the 10 seconds that the target can't cast a spell from the school of magic (if any) they were using at the time you counter them.

SamIam said:
I took IAE for two reasons: 1) as I understand it, the purpose of mages in end-game stuff is sheep and AoE; therefore, more bang for the buck (this is also why I took Imp Flamestrike). 2) Needed to get to ICS. If I don't take ICS, should I keep IAE? If I'm wrong about a mage's duties, should I keep Imp Flamestrike?

Nothing wrong with those talents. Higher critting aoe is never a bad thing.

SamIam said:
I see your point about Incinerate. However, I've never really seen the need for flame throwing. I seldom pull, and when I do I use a frost bolt.

Two nice things about flame throwing:

1. Range is king in pvp, but if you don't pvp then this is a non-issue.
2. Range helps in a number of boss fights where their aoe affects have a range equal to that of a default fireball. So you can cast and not take dmg. It's not bad pve-wise once you get used to casting a fireball or two to open, followed by a frostbolt.

SamIam said:
I already have 3 pts in elemental precision so it'll have to stay for now. Also, I can't read your link from work, so I'll have to wait until I get home.

SamIam said:
I really want to keep my clearcasting, so that's a solid 10pts in arcane. If I give up ICS and IAE, that frees up 7 pts. Putting all of those in Fire may be overkill though. /sigh Such a...congnomedrum. ;)

Clearcasting is excellent, no need to give that up. Effectively reduces your spells by 10% when chain casting, or it can actually bump up your dps when you use a clearcast to cast a more expensive spell.
 
it's nice to convert from a frost/firebolt to Arcane Missles (which is more damage, but lower damage per mana... when it's free, AM tends to be a decent way to go. Of course, blasting a group with a Flamestrike for free is nice, too :)
 
I agonized over my spec for a couple hours last night, but finally decided on a 17/34/0 build.

The more I thought about it, an elementalist build just didn't work for me. I wanted to concentrate on one type of nuke rather than two. I doubt I'll cast anything but fire unless I just can't hit the mob with it. So based on that I put my remaining points in the arcane line for a little extra defense and mana.

Arcane (17 points)
2/2 Arcane Subtlety - Reduces resists by 10
3/5 Arcane Focus - Reduces sheep resists
5/5 Magic Absorption - Increases my resist by 10
4/5 Arcane Concentration - Mana! I like mana!
1/1 Arcane Resilience - Armor! Shouldn't get hit, but in the event I do...
2/2 Improved Counterspell - Take that you no good casting mob!

Fire (34 points)
5/5 Improved Fireball - Shorter cast time
5/5 Ignite - Burn, baby burn!
2/2 Flame Throwing - Throw nasty things from larger distances
2/2 Incinerate - Crits!
3/3 Improved Flamestrike - More crits!
2/2 Burning Soul - Reduces threat by 30%
3/3 Improved Scorch - Fire vulnerability
3/3 Master of Elements - Gimme my mana back
3/3 Critical Mass - Crits!!! Did I mention crits!
5/5 Fire Power - Damage!
1/1 Combustion - Muhahaha crits, crits more crits

Frost (0 points)
None


Ambryana's Build
 
Kelarra said:
I agonized over my spec for a couple hours last night, but finally decided on a 17/34/0 build.

The more I thought about it, an elementalist build just didn't work for me. I wanted to concentrate on one type of nuke rather than two. I doubt I'll cast anything but fire unless I just can't hit the mob with it. So based on that I put my remaining points in the arcane line for a little extra defense and mana.

Arcane (17 points)
2/2 Arcane Subtlety - Reduces resists by 10
3/5 Arcane Focus - Reduces sheep resists
5/5 Magic Absorption - Increases my resist by 10
4/5 Arcane Concentration - Mana! I like mana!
1/1 Arcane Resilience - Armor! Shouldn't get hit, but in the event I do...
2/2 Improved Counterspell - Take that you no good casting mob!

Fire (34 points)
5/5 Improved Fireball - Shorter cast time
5/5 Ignite - Burn, baby burn!
2/2 Flame Throwing - Throw nasty things from larger distances
2/2 Incinerate - Crits!
3/3 Improved Flamestrike - More crits!
2/2 Burning Soul - Reduces threat by 30%
3/3 Improved Scorch - Fire vulnerability
3/3 Master of Elements - Gimme my mana back
3/3 Critical Mass - Crits!!! Did I mention crits!
5/5 Fire Power - Damage!
1/1 Combustion - Muhahaha crits, crits more crits

Frost (0 points)
None


Ambryana's Build


Take out the 1/1 in Arcane Resilience and make 5/5 in Arcane Concentration. The amount of armor it gives is horrible.
 
Reason said:
Take out the 1/1 in Arcane Resilience and make 5/5 in Arcane Concentration. The amount of armor it gives is horrible.

I agree. You'll be casting spells more often than getting hit. Therefore, increased clearcasting is better than increased armor. Unless, you like to tank and have a bad case of warrior-envy. :D

I was gonna take ICS because I thought CS only lasted for a couple secs. I was thinking of the Rogue's Kick. Silly me. So it's out, freeing up 2 pts. I may give up IAE as well. Flamestrike is slightly more mana effecient and has virtually the same DPS. Plus, with Imp FS, I have a higher crit chance (+10%) than w/ IAE. I have time still to think this part over, though.
 
I will of course have more time to decide, but I was thinking of something like one of the following builds. I am favouring the crit build; However, I like the look of the fire build. The Arcane build is one which I would go for if I was going to start pvp-ing alot probably. I do want to get into pvp a bit, but probably not too much, so likely I will go for the crit build. I will probably play with the build a bit more though before I come back to wow. I am not totally sure about some of the lower level talents on the arcane side yet.

CRIT BUILD
Arcane (28 points)

2/2 Arcane Subtlety
5/5 Improved Arcane Missiles
5/5 Magic Absorption
5/5 Arcane Concentration
2/2 Magic Attunement
3/3 Improved Arcane Explosion
2/2 Improved Counterspell
1/1 Presence of Mind
3/3 Arcane Instability

Fire (23 points)

5/5 Improved Fireball
5/5 Ignite
2/2 Flame Throwing
2/2 Incinerate
1/1 Pyroblast
2/2 Burning Soul
3/3 Master of Elements
3/3 Critical Mass

Frost (0 points)

None



FIRE BUILD
Arcane (20 points)

5/5 Improved Arcane Missiles
5/5 Magic Absorption
5/5 Arcane Concentration
3/3 Improved Arcane Explosion
2/2 Improved Counterspell

Fire (31 points)

5/5 Improved Fireball
5/5 Ignite
2/2 Flame Throwing
2/2 Incinerate
1/3 Improved Flamestrike
1/1 Pyroblast
2/2 Burning Soul
3/3 Master of Elements
3/3 Critical Mass
1/1 Blast Wave
5/5 Fire Power
1/1 Combustion

Frost (0 points)

None


ARCANE BUILD
Arcane (31 points)

5/5 Improved Arcane Missiles
5/5 Magic Absorption
5/5 Arcane Concentration
3/3 Improved Arcane Explosion
1/1 Arcane Resilience
2/2 Improved Counterspell
1/1 Presence of Mind
5/5 Arcane Mind
3/3 Arcane Instability
1/1 Arcane Power

Fire (20 points)

5/5 Improved Fireball
5/5 Ignite
2/2 Flame Throwing
2/2 Incinerate
1/1 Pyroblast
2/2 Burning Soul
3/3 Master of Elements

Frost (0 points)

None
 
This is my current build: http://www.wowhead.com/talent/?kZVgrzc0zZVVGzRbth

In my mage's guild we are (sort of) experimenting with group-spec'ing where at least one mage takes up improved scorch to benefit the others, at least one mage picks up Winter's Chill to benefit the others, and at least one mage (me) picks up Frostbite (and Imp Blizz) to benefit the others (those with Shatter).

I fancy myself the AoE specialist of the guild mages. We have some who are still full frost, and some who are full fire, and a mixture of arcane and elementalists. I predict these complementary combinations will benefit our 20- and 40-man raids substantially.

My own build gives me lots of flexibility with PvP as well as PvE.

So far I'm having lots of fun with it, even if I no longer top the Damage Meters anymore. :)
 
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Just food for thought, is that some elementalist builds are effectively crit builds. I like to call them controlled crit builds, because with frost nova you can control when you get a chance to get a +50% chance to crit.

30 fire / 21 frost

A lot of the talents in the frost tree could be shuffled around to taste, the key talents (IMO) are: Shatter, Cold Snap, and Ice Block. Since you will likely be primarily casting fire spells I figured might as well do things like improve blizzard, and get frost bite to help shed mobs attacking you from time to time.

Though I doubt that this build would fare as well in group situations... the fire/arc builds are far better at that... guaranteed crit chance is never a bad thing.

With my new little mage I am shooting for a 41 frost/10 arcane build: Freezrburn's build (to be)
 
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Crackotage said:
I predict these complementary combinations will benefit our 20- and 40-man raids substantially.

Absolutely! I saw this the other night in AR's MC. Two of us had Winter's Chill, and several people were commenting about the nice debuff we were laying down. I believe we had 6 mages, so there was a lot of extra DPS in the ice department :)
 
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