Total hijack from Redeemed , with their permission:-)

Tinie

Tinie

New Member
I am posting some links to some very well done tables that Redeemed, a fellow christian guild in CGA, has done up for their guild.

The tables are listed in the Raid Discussion area of the main link found above, as I am just going to link the tables themselves.

This is a table they have done for their Karazhan teams that someone may want to adapt to work for TF's teams also:

Karazhan teams chart

They also have posted very nice tables on Kara and 25man gear requirements, and while I know that TF is not a 'raiding guild' like Redeemed is, TF'ers that like to raid may find the tables helpful in determining what to work towards to help make the runs that they are apart of more successful and to gauge if their gear is ready for these instances.

Karazhan gear requirements

25 man gear requirements
 
Wow, that's impressive. Very helpful for setting a benchmark of "ideal" stats for each class/spec. Even for folks not interested in raiding, having goals to work towards is nice.
 
Thanks Angie. If the other two Kara groups can put their regulars here I will get a list together. After I get those in I will add in the subs and keep it up to date the best I can.

Group 1 Regulars:
Tank - Rengeof & Artwin
Healers - Wolvenx, Yesmina & Wend
DPS - Durruck, Ambryana, Esua, Buto & Xandar/Radrune.

Thx for the help with my memory Esua.

TF Raids
 
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Anything you guys need let us know.

We have blazed a trail and will gladly let you learn from our mistakes.
 
team 3
Tanks: Rhys (leader), darthmauled

Healer: Malcolm

Dps: Viggy, reets, moonscripher(leader), kahless,mogrin/shortilocks,argal

Sub sowin
 
Question for Group 2 and Group 3. The sub(s) you have listed, are they only going to your run or are they available for any run going on?

Also, if people that are keyed and not tied to another run could post here so I can add you to the sub list. If you have restrictions to what runs you can do please post it here also.

Group 1 (Tues/Thurs and sometimes Wed), Group 2 (Mon/Fri) and Group 3 (Sun/Wed).
 
I would actually disagree with some of the stats they list as minimum requirements to run 25-mans. In the case of warlock, your spec plays a large role in how much int, crit, etc.. you need.

For example my warlock has nearly 1.1k dmg (about 200 more +dmg than they recommend), yet I am far off from their minimum recommended mana (I have 7.7k instead of 9k). In the case of mana though, I find that I almost never run out of mana, and to be frank I am not sure that mana should really have a minmum requirement for affliction warlocks.

If however I was a destruction warlock, I would definitely need far more int and a ton more crit... to be honest I would need to gear up more like a fire mage.

I think the true gauge to whether or not you are geared enough to move onto more advanced content is simply a matter of how geared you are with respect to the tier you are on. That is when looking over loot lists like wow-loot.com, count how many pieces do you see in the content you are working on that are upgrades. As that count approaches zero, you are close approaching a point where you are geared enough for the next level.

Clearly though, there are times for minimum requirements, especially w/ respect to important stats like health. There are some fights where having a certain amount of health is almost required due to the amount of aoe dmg everyone will be taking. Shade in KZ is a good example of this.
 
the subs we have listed right now are waiting for a desiciosn on who the last dps will be but are not tied to us only
 
personally there requirement for kara or 25 man are low for tanks and ot's, I have over 15000 armor and 13500 and sometimes thats not enough my block, dodge parry are all over there wants.
 
I have two keyed charactors, mogrins (hunter) and shortilocks (lock). Either one can sub in and I'll take the other on sunday (both are well geared)
 
Icthus said:
Anything you guys need let us know.

We have blazed a trail and will gladly let you learn from our mistakes.
Click to expand...

Unfair! We haven't learned from our mistakes yet! We keep letting you and I on the same team and the only thing that gets done is spam. Spam healing that is, but that is still spam. :eek:
 
While I think that it's great that we have tables to work from, data from a successful run to play with, I think we need to be careful with it as well.

None of my toons currently qualify to play in Kara, based on the Redeemed charts, despite the fact that I take 3 different toons. I know I'm not the best at any of the classes I play, but there are nights that without me taking my healer, we wouldn't go at all. And I've been on my healer in every encounter we've ever finished (only meaning that any boss we've dropped as a group, I've been on my healer at least once for it. That's something I can't say for my mage or druid)

Starter groups may find that they'd never have started (and therefore, wouldn't be working on the 2nd or 3rd boss now) if they used these sheets as a "conform or get out".

Can you start Kara before you get the listed stats? Yes. Can you down Prince & Sprite? Debatable.
 
We (redeemed) have been using these specs as a baseline. But performance outweighs gear every time! :D

We've got some other helpful docs if you would like them. IE, we just finished a huge primal farming comp to get nature/frost resist gear for the SSC fights. Might be helpful if you decide to do the same. Feel free to spam us anytime! We love spam...
 
Mike as you put the Team lists together, see if you can figure out the number of unique players. It should help you as we look ahead to starting Gruul's in the future. We might have 20 - 25 distinct players which based on history probably means 15-18 folks who could help form your core group of runners for Gruul's.

For folks not yet part of a Kara team, the numbers on the chart are good to shoot for. As alluded to I don't think anyone in TF is saying you need to match those before you can go, but if 8 out of 10 in the raid meet those specs success is certainly more attainable. Getting enchants, kits and gems is key too. TF has most of the professions covered so once again ask around check out the Quests/Professions link in the forums...
 
We are all on the same team here, so to speak. These minimums work for us because the guild and raid leaders looked at it and said, in Redeemed, this will work. Ultimately, The Forgiven's leaders will have to do the same. If what tools we have will help you organize it, or give you ideas, use it. Do your priests need +1000 to healing and 80 mana per 5 in combat as a guildine for a gear readiness check for Kara? Maybe you need to lower or increase the requirements based on what the guild is capable of doing.

In Redeemed, all these minimum requirements are extremely easy to attain, probably because we have such a large base of players and resources. Maybe the requirements seem low because you have already done better but if you can do better, do better. Maybe they seem low because even though you personally, or a few of you have meet our minimums, you are still having problems getting the team over a hump. Well, if you only have one healer, one dps'er and one tank meeting whatever gear check you have in place, maybe the fact that the other 7 don't meet it is what hold you back and not that the minimums are too low.

You have to also remember, that having lots of plus healing and mana per 5 may help the priest solo heal Arcatraz but having a lower requirements for raiding is part of the thought process of you have 2 or 3 other healers helping you. You aren't solo healing a group of 5 in a raid, nor are you solo healing the raid. If there are three healers, you are essentially, solo healing 3.

To recap, The Forgiven has to make their own mind as to what they want to do. Our minimums are not and don't have to be your minimums. You may want to put in place lower minimums to ensure you always have a team or two or three running Karazhan. Maybe you want to up them because you feel they are too low.
 
Don't get me wrong, I definitely wasn't bashing you guys. I understand why your numbers have worked for you :) I was only stressing that we can't just take your numbers and impose them directly onto our raids.

I just don't want some of our members to see the chart and immediately think that they cannot come to Karazhan because they've got +700 damage instead of 750, 900 healing instead of 1000, or whatever.

I'm sorry if I came across negative in any way. While the charts are very helpful, they just came at a very bad time. We've lost quite a few of our tanks in the recent weeks, so we're scrambling trying to get people moved around so we can get our tanks in and comfortable with Attuman again :)
 
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