Why is it Ok To Kill?

[Shyfroggy]

Ok...what DO you think about? You don't think about what weapons to use? Don't you choose weapons according to the damage they do? Don't you think about putting your enemy's head in your crosshairs?

Actually when I play I don't think about putting the enemies head in the crosshairs, I don't think about what weapons to use...I don't think about killing...like I said, it's a game with other Christians...

It's a visual representation of life. The SOLE purpose of the game is to kill the opposing side. You can argue that there are teamwork issues, etc, but I'd like to see you play a game WITHOUT trying to get a kill. If God equates hate with killing, how do you think he'd equate virtual killing to the real thing? It's not WHAT you are killing, in this case "hypothetical particles", it's the simple fact that you are KILLING. Premeditated I might add. You kill to gain money to get weapons to kill some more.

CS is NOT a representation of life...I don't run around on the same map every single day of my life. and the last time I checked, CS was about more than jsut killing people - ie...planting the bomb, rescuing the hostages.And like I've said before I HAVE NOT KILLED ANYBODY...nobody is actually dieing...

In this instance, I am trying to understand why your beliefs seem to deviate from what the Bible, the foundation for your beliefs, teaches.

Since I am not killing anybody, since I am not commiting murder. Since I am not engaging in lustful sin, please do explain how you can tell me that my life and my beliefs are deviating from the Bible.

It's called deductive reasoning, based off of the ideas/thoughts/beliefs that I know. As I said, I'm trying to understand how you can call yourself a Christian, yet participate in unChristianlike activities

Key point there 'that you know,' all you know is what I've shared but there is A LOT more to me.....and who determines what is 'unChristianlike activities'?

WWJD? Can you see him sitting in on a game of CS?

Actually He is with us every night.

I wanted to ask...if you agree that you can sin mentally, why do you believe there is a difference between killing in video games and pornography?

Very simple answer, because there is a difference. Porn can literally tear couples apart, it can cause trust issues, self-esteem issues, bottom line it can cause a lot of issues....but playing CS- virtually killing people who come back to life for the next round, does no harm...

Would you also mind explaining how you justify playing games like CS in light of the follwing verses: "1 John 2:15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever."

The will of God --- spreading His word. I spread His word when I play Counter Strike. Mark 16:15-16 "Then he said "Go into the world. Go everywhere and announce the Message of God's good news to one and all." If this is one way I choose to live God's will, by spreading his word in CounterStrike then I really see no issue.

 

[Macattak1]

This is a PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT:

1. Please be sure to keep the conversation civil.
2. Don't triple post. =)

<radiostatic>

If you are speaking of me just let me know or IM me. I personally do not view what I did as tripple posting. If I also need reminding to be civil please feel free to directly point it out. I have nothing to hide and infact appreciate a knock on the forehead most anytime.

Peace.

 

[Macattak1]

Call it what it is. It is violence. It is intentional killing. It is not real killing anymore than looking at a picture of a woman on a mag and thinking inappropriate thoughts.

I will accept that as your opinion. But I would really appreciate it if somebody could explain why the comparison keeps going back to 'looking at women in magazines' I am having great difficulty seeing whatever point is trying to be made there and yet it has been brought up multiple times.

Verse is always best. But alas I can rarely find what I want. When I do I find a bit of it and sometimes people feel bombarded or attacked. However, I post verse as it is the only thing that is of value in my posts. My personal opinion means nothing. We should not make or take our stances based upon personal opinon.

As has been shown one can sin with their thoughts. Pride is ones worst enemy. It took down Satan. It can take down anyone of us.

I am sorry, but I See this as incorrect. A game is just a game until Satan makes it more.

Again, I appreciate your opinion, but I would also appreciate it if you could post your opinion without telling me my beliefs/ideas are 'incorrect'...And I agree - A game is just a game until Satan makes it more - thus would explain why I choose to play on a Christian server where we are more of a family and we actually talk about the Lord. I know that some have said 'is that before or after you slay them' and again I'm baffled as to where that is coming from....search a little deeper, look at it from another perspective, try to see the positive gain that comes from playing with people who are like family to you. When that is the case, CS becomes a whole lot more than CS, and that is the main thing I'm asking you to consider.

Greetings,

OK, I dont think you look for the posative first to see the value in something. Satan Hides in the details right? So look at the real negatives first.

A killing game is about Violence, real or immagined, right? We dont let our kids look at playboy because it is not real. We dont let our kids role play and cuss like sailers right? Immagination is very strong and every bit as dangerous. In fact, it can be more dangerous. Immagination is where people justify wrong things like a murder they are going to commit.

I can see spending time with close people in a Godly Structure. But you can not find that in violent gaming. It is just not their. I dont know what verse there is to afirm that? Dont enter into a den of thieves or adulterers and try to hold a prayer session. It is dangerous. There are things that are dangerous to us. If we had the faith of Jesus then nothing would be truly dangerous for us. But we do not.

Peace

 

[SirThom]

If you are speaking of me just let me know or IM me. I personally do not view what I did as tripple posting. If I also need reminding to be civil please feel free to directly point it out. I have nothing to hide and infact appreciate a knock on the forehead most anytime.

Peace.

Yes, that was triple posting. Because, a. you posted three times, b. you did them in quick sucession (sp, 40 minutes). There's an edit button next to your recent posts -- just edit them if you feel you have to post multiple times.

Also, I didn't say you weren't being civil, I was just saying (as a blanket statement) to keep it civil.

You're in the clear, dude. =)

 

[Dark Virtue]

"Would you mind explaining how you have a Christian demeanor when you are playing games whose sole purpose is to kill other players? How, exactly, does one glorify God while making a head shot?" But the sole purpose isn't to kill the other players. If that was the case, I wouldn't be alive here. Also, I doubt people would play becuase no one wants to really die. It's the whole "no one really dies" arguement. Making a headshot in CS is no different in my book than draining a fade away jumper in a basketball game. It's a point and nothing else.

Maybe I should rephrase that. Killing may not be the sole purpose in BF2, but it is a necessity, the game is based on killing. It is impossible to win without killing. My question still stands, if Christians are to glorify God in EVERYTHING they do, how do you glorify God by playing a game that involves virtual killing? Shooting hoops and shooting virtual enemies are not the same thing.

You ask why I have my BF2 stats in my profile. I don't do it to boast. I do it so people can see 1. That I play BF2 so if they're looking for someone to play with, they know I play and 2. It gives people an idea of my progress in the game. When I ran track in high school, people constantly shared what their PR (personal record) is. It wasn't a boasting, but a way for everyone to see how each other was progressing. For example, if my PR pole-vaulting one day was 10' and then the next meet it goes to 11'6", then my teammates who migt have been busy running other events or friends at other meets can get an idea of what happened and join in the happiness of my improvement. It's a way for everyone to encourage each other and watch each other get better.

Don't worry, I won't fight you on this point

"Several now have equated virtual killing to paintball. You know, there ARE paintball video games. Why not just play those? Why play a game that simulates killing, murder, death?" Yes there are paintball games. But what does paintball simulate? Shooting other people. But in this shooting, people don't actually get hurt and no one dies, just like in a game like Halo. So I guess using your logic of why Christians shouldn't play CS, they also shouldn't play paintball.

Riddle me this Batman...why is it many parents forbid their children to play with toy guns? Heck, most toy guns don't even shoot anything.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Actually when I play I don't think about putting the enemies head in the crosshairs, I don't think about what weapons to use...I don't think about killing...like I said, it's a game with other Christians...

Hmm, so you just run around the battlefield chatting?

You've said what you DON'T think about...again. I asked what you DO think about when you play the game.

CS is NOT a representation of life...I don't run around on the same map every single day of my life. and the last time I checked, CS was about more than jsut killing people - ie...planting the bomb, rescuing the hostages.And like I've said before I HAVE NOT KILLED ANYBODY...nobody is actually dieing...

I challenge you and your team to complete your objective with no weapons. Do you think you could do that and be successful at the game? Killing people is what the game is based on. No killing = no winning.

Since I am not killing anybody, since I am not commiting murder. Since I am not engaging in lustful sin, please do explain how you can tell me that my life and my beliefs are deviating from the Bible.

Hmm, I thought I had explained this already with the verses I posted. However, since you have yet to explain what you think about while playing the game, I will have to put the answer to this question on hold.

Key point there 'that you know,' all you know is what I've shared but there is A LOT more to me.....and who determines what is 'unChristianlike activities'?

Anyone that understands what a Christian is and stands for can determine what is and what isn't Christian like. As I said, all I know is what I have access to. That is what I base my understand on.

Actually He is with us every night.

Right...but is he saddened by your activities?

Very simple answer, because there is a difference. Porn can literally tear couples apart, it can cause trust issues, self-esteem issues, bottom line it can cause a lot of issues....but playing CS- virtually killing people who come back to life for the next round, does no harm...

While porn CAN do harm, it doesn't necessarily do so. You say CS does no harm, but I'm sure you can find plenty of studies that disagree with you.

The will of God --- spreading His word. I spread His word when I play Counter Strike. Mark 16:15-16 "Then he said "Go into the world. Go everywhere and announce the Message of God's good news to one and all." If this is one way I choose to live God's will, by spreading his word in CounterStrike then I really see no issue.

You have yet to explain HOW you can spread the word of God while playing CS. Can you spread the word of God while you are robbing a liquor store? You see where I'm going here?

 

[Macattak1]

...

"Shoot" "him"? no, I only shoot guns at a shooting range under safe conditions, never at anyone. Your going to have to define shoot. And don't worry about defining "him" because there are no "him"s in computer games. There are no enemies. Its a means to having fun. Him defines a gender, and there are no people or genders in games, just graphics. Is burning a picture a killing? at least in computer games you can get the picture back....

That is actaully one of the better discussions I have seen. Brings some of it back into focus so we do not go too far in the wrong direction.

Lets keep looking:

Ouija Boards - A game. You can try to tell me that you contact the spirits with them. But just like a gun, they do no evil on thier own. They cause me no fear. Only what people do with it 'could' cause me concern. Regardless, I would not own or use. My heart and scripture tells me that is not of God.

Tarrot Cards - A game. You can try to tell me that you contact the spirits with them. But just like a gun, they do no evil on thier own. They cause me no fear. Only what people do with it 'could' cause me concern. Regardless, I would not own or use. My heart and scripture tells me that is not of God.

Any of the above could be death to some and not others. You dont have to believe there is danger. Just like the demons, you dont have to believe in God. They know Him and that He is True.

Gambling - A game of chance. This does cause me fear because no one wants to loose. The idea is to win and for God to make that happen for you above others. My heart and scripture tells me that is not of God.

We are to look at our salvation with Faith and Fear and Trembling.

Again, lets list the challenges with BF2 or other very like games. If you answer No to everything then perhaps this is not a cause of concern for you.

1- Do you have concern about playing games like this?

2- Is this a game you would let your young children play (on-line) and all that this entails?

3- Do you proudly claim to all that you play BF2?

4- This is not a source of embarresment, etc. among peers?

5- You do not play more than you spend time in the Word?

6- Playing this does not cause you to loose your temper due to lag, stupid people, TK'ers, etc.

7- You can stop at ANY time with no regrets or concerns to take care of family, children, school, etc.

8- Game does not interferre with your life, commitments, duties, responsibilities, etc.?

9- You can play this game to the Glory of God?

10- ???

Answer NO and YOU may be on solid ground.

Any more that are fairly generic? This is not some scientific list. It is made on the spur of the moment. Some of these may not be as good as some others.

We also have to look at the fact that we have to defend ourselves and perparing to do so, thinking about it, training to do so, etc. is in itself not sinful. We train our millitary with games to take on the enemy. As most things, the Devil really is in the details. God makes things easy. Satan makes them crooked and decietful and untrustworthy. Satan, the Accuser, is always trying to get us to ask 'WHY NOT' and I think we need to remember this.

What we think is of little importantce. What Jesus says is all important.


There is one Unforgivable sin; to attribute the Miricals of Jesus and Jesus Himself to that of Satan. The best words of wisdom I have ever heard was that 'if you have concern that you may have done this it LIKELY shows that you never have'. I.e. your heart is in the right place. Further, know that to commit the unforgivable sin does not remove your name from the book and you do not automatically loose salvation. (The latter part is contrary to popular urban Christian Legend... )

 

[Macattak1]

Yes, that was triple posting. Because, a. you posted three times, b. you did them in quick sucession (sp, 40 minutes). There's an edit button next to your recent posts -- just edit them if you feel you have to post multiple times.

Also, I didn't say you weren't being civil, I was just saying (as a blanket statement) to keep it civil.

You're in the clear, dude. =)

Greetings,

While I have used many forums for years, they are all like ATM macheins at the Grocery Store. They look the same and do the same things, and you really should be able to figure them out, but they still take a few times of doing nothing while it is waiting for your input to remind you to pay attention... I think somewhere in there is an analogy...

It is so easy to post. Then see another thing to post to. Then come back 40mins later and post again. You never see it occuring, it just does. And as my first few posts my brain was still stairing at the cash register instead of the ATM screen... ;0

So as my first Duty and Executive Order as President I will make all ATM and Credit Machines the same and All Forums software the same. Peace!

Then I get screwing around so long with analogies and stupid jokes I forget the one real thing I wanted to say

Truthfully, always feel free to point out where I could easily be nicer. Thanks!

[Edit] I do find that 'I' like to keep replies or posts to different posts separate. That is why I prefere forum SW that allows a subject line. It is pretty hard to keep a thread 100% on topic and not often of more value to do so.

 

[Shyfroggy]

OK, I dont think you look for the posative first to see the value in something. Satan Hides in the details right? So look at the real negatives first.

Actually when I look at a situation, any situation I do look at the positive first. If you are looking for the negative, that is what you are going to find, in any situation....and when we allow negative thoughts in, then we allow Satan in. We are in control of the details we allow in our life.

A killing game is about Violence, real or immagined, right? We dont let our kids look at playboy because it is not real. We dont let our kids role play and cuss like sailers right? Immagination is very strong and every bit as dangerous. In fact, it can be more dangerous. Immagination is where people justify wrong things like a murder they are going to commit.

Perhaps the main point here is that not all killing games are only about violence...And myself personally my reasons for not letting somebody look at Playboy go beyond rather or not it is real...it just isn't right - that is why I wouldn't let my kid look at it(when I have one of course) And I don't think that the imagination is a dangerous thing. You have to look at the positive in life too.

I can see spending time with close people in a Godly Structure. But you can not find that in violent gaming. It is just not their.

Well maybe you can't - but I can...and I do...

 

[Dark Virtue]

Actually when I look at a situation, any situation I do look at the positive first. If you are looking for the negative, that is what you are going to find, in any situation....and when we allow negative thoughts in, then we allow Satan in. We are in control of the details we allow in our life.

Only if you are subjective in your thinking. If you can look at it objectively, you can see the positive AND negative aspects.

Perhaps the main point here is that not all killing games are only about violence...And myself personally my reasons for not letting somebody look at Playboy go beyond rather or not it is real...it just isn't right - that is why I wouldn't let my kid look at it(when I have one of course) And I don't think that the imagination is a dangerous thing. You have to look at the positive in life too.

Would you mind giving us a list of killing games that don't have violence as their major component?

Well maybe you can't - but I can...and I do...

[/quote]

You still have yet to explain this.

 

[Shyfroggy]

I asked what you DO think about when you play the game.

I think about the day I had. I think about how my children in my classroom are growing and changing. I think about my dog. I think about my relationship with my husband...And while I'm playing I talk to my husband, talk to my dog, and sometimes even talk on the phone with my mom. So it isn't all about KILL KILL KILL...I'm not that type of person...besides if that was the way I was thinking I would seriously think that it was time to back off of CS for a while.

Killing people is what the game is based on.

Again I will remind you that I am not taking life from another living, breathing human being....I am not "killing people."

Right...but is he saddened by your activities?

Actually I don't think he is...we play for His glory, not our own.

You have yet to explain HOW you can spread the word of God while playing CS. Can you spread the word of God while you are robbing a liquor store? You see where I'm going here?

Well I play with a tag, I play on a 'witnessing' server...if somebody comes on and wants to know more about God, we stop all play and spread His word...And many times, like I have said before we may just get into a discussion about The Almighty while we are playing...and everytime that has happened, I have learned something...so that is where I feel we are spreading the Word. And I'm not doing anything illegal when I play this game, so I don't see where you are going with robbing a liquor store - they don't equate...

 

[Macattak1]

OK, I dont think you look for the posative first to see the value in something. Satan Hides in the details right? So look at the real negatives first.

Actually when I look at a situation, any situation I do look at the positive first. If you are looking for the negative, that is what you are going to find, in any situation....and when we allow negative thoughts in, then we allow Satan in. We are in control of the details we allow in our life.

My point was simply to look at the negative when you are in doubt. Looking for the posative first or only or mostly can run into Justifying.

A killing game is about Violence, real or immagined, right? We dont let our kids look at playboy because it is not real. We dont let our kids role play and cuss like sailers right? Immagination is very strong and every bit as dangerous. In fact, it can be more dangerous. Immagination is where people justify wrong things like a murder they are going to commit.

Perhaps the main point here is that not all killing games are only about violence...And myself personally my reasons for not letting somebody look at Playboy go beyond rather or not it is real...it just isn't right - that is why I wouldn't let my kid look at it(when I have one of course) And I don't think that the imagination is a dangerous thing. You have to look at the positive in life too.

But, you would not let your kid under say 10 play Doom III I hope??? My kids are very innocent and I like that. Not stupid. Innocent. My son would have nightmares for years if he played Doom III. He is 8. Never seen anything but G and very few PG movies. No Starwars, Harry Potter, etc. He is too innocent, soft, trusting, etc.

I can see spending time with close people in a Godly Structure. But you can not find that in violent gaming. It is just not their.

Well maybe you can't - but I can...and I do...

We can find God anywhere. He is not barred from anything. But He is not Always Active Everywhere. Jesus Preached for 3 years and virtually no one was saved. God did not have the Holy Ghost applying that Word Jesus was teaching. But on Penticost 3k were saved because God applied the Holy Ghost. Further, I notice you post about playing CS or what ever with other Christians. Kind of inplying that you never play with none Christians. Not trying to bait you or attack. Just pointing out that you may be glossing it a little...? Perhaps you have a 32 man server or something where ONLY Christians congregate but I am guessing not? But that would be way Cool! Further, neither you nor I know who really is a Christian. Wheat or Tares. We can not see thier salvation. SOme will depart out and where never one with us. Do you never play with None Christians? The ones with the bad: names, language, etc.? I cant get away from them very easy. Some days you might not be able to tell me from them... I am guessing you do play with none Christians. And just because none Christians do play does not mean God can not be active.

Hey, thanks for the dialog. Peace.

 

[Master~Plan]

Ouija Boards - A game. You can try to tell me that you contact the spirits with them. But just like a gun, they do no evil on thier own. They cause me no fear. Only what people do with it 'could' cause me concern. Regardless, I would not own or use. My heart and scripture tells me that is not of God.

no, I am telling that people contact spirits with Ouija Boards. The reason the game was fashioned was to contact spirits. This is not the case with computer games.

Tarrot Cards - A game. You can try to tell me that you contact the spirits with them.

no, I am telling that people contact spirits with Tarrot Cards.

Any of the above could be death to some and not others.

Scripture draws a line on the above. There is no chance about it.

Gambling - A game of chance.

I don't gamble. I would think that it is wrong, but I have never studied the subject. Personally I see no point. Casinos can't afford to open up enormous buildings to give money away. Chances are that you are going to given them your money. If I have a dollar, there is a 100% chance I can get a candy bar with it. Works for me...
Once I wanted to hang out with some people from work and they wanted to play poker. I was told they wouldn't play for money, but when I got there they ended up playing for money. I told them that if I won, no one would have to pay me, and I wrote a IOU on a napkin and threw it in the middle for 10 bucks. (I ended up giving the guy ten bucks anyway just so it didn't look like I was trying to win something for nothing, even though I wasn't...)

1- Do you ...

As for your ten questions, I think those are very good questions.
question 2: I observe that children are sensative to blood. If you can take out blood/language/sexual content(which all I do for myself anyway) then sure, no problem.
question 6: Most of the time no, but when theres times when people are simple jerks, and I do get angry. This does cause me to take breaks from games. Probly should stop if this happens too often.
question 9: I don't see how someone can play a game to God's glory. Maybe it can be done, but I don't see how I could possibly do it. I play games to have fun, and I'm just bieng honest.
as for all the other questions, I can answer with a no.

To go further in my look on such games. Take the example of tic tac toe. The game starts with a page of paper with a large "#" written on it. Two players with pencils in thier hands. The first person changes the picture with thier pencil, and then the second takes thier turn. Someone comes out winner at the end of the picture manipulation(or in my case they always end up cats games). I don't see much of a different in computer games. Its all image manipulation. Instead of a paper image, the image is digital. Instead of a pencil, a mouse and keyboard to change the image. The digital image is manipulated with the keyboard and mouse until someone comes out winner. If someone drew a bloody hexagram instead of an "X" or "O" when playing tic tac toe, I would probably not play thier version. The same is true for first person shooters. I still remember when I was a little kid in Rico's Pizza watching a cooler older kid play mortal kombat. Then one of the characters ripped out both the other's arms out and a bloody spew of blood began. Then the big flashing words "FATALITY" appeared and the cool kids were like "awsome!". I almost threw up my pizza. Now that I"m older and I have done things like gutted a fish, or gotten a huge bloody cut on my knee etc, I don't cringe. I think we have to be careful not to subject little ones to graphic content because they are not ready for it and common sense. After that, a game is a game.

 

[Macattak1]

Greetings,

no, I am telling that people contact spirits with Ouija Boards. The reason the game was fashioned was to contact spirits. This is not the case with computer games.

Must play with color. I dont know the true history of the board. It is An attempt by some to contact spirits. Some may not be attempting and still contact. Then the other I am thinking very large percentage contact nothing. You can not contact that which God has sealed you from, God forbids you to contact, etc. Satan is the prince of the earth. But he is subject to all that God is. A very good example is how difficult it really is to take a persons life. We lost 3k in 911. 3k too many, but that could have easily been 50k or more. People walk into a school or stadium bent upon shooting and blowing people up. Fact is that one can not kill someone that God is not prepared to allow this to happen. And thank the Lord for that one. Otherwise it would be true chaos and death everywhere.

no, I am telling that people contact spirits with Tarrot Cards.

Again, same as above. I had one of those 'Artsy' couple friends. They were about the melding of god to everything so you might say they did not know God at all. She likeed Tarrot cards and had a set she got from a 'white' witch... Fact is 500 priests of Bhal could not call down fire. Neither can one with Tarrot cards. It may be an attempt. But success is determined by God. I dont have the numbers for how many spirits have been contacted by people with all the Tarrot cards ever bought, sold, handed down, etc. But I am thinking very few. Like Ouiji boards, they have their own rules and no one plays or goes by the same rules. My friend said you had to get the cards from someone very powerfull, etc. for them to be of value. What ever.

Scripture draws a line on the above. There is no chance about it.

Yes. Scripture says we are not to be wizards and magicians. Speaking to the dead is very dangerous.

I don't gamble. I would think that it is wrong, but I have never studied the subject. Personally I see no point. Casinos can't afford to open up enormous buildings to give money away. Chances are that you are going to given them your money. If I have a dollar, there is a 100% chance I can get a candy bar with it. Works for me...
Once I wanted to hang out with some people from work and they wanted to play poker. I was told they wouldn't play for money, but when I got there they ended up playing for money. I told them that if I won, no one would have to pay me, and I wrote a IOU on a napkin and threw it in the middle for 10 bucks. (I ended up giving the guy ten bucks anyway just so it didn't look like I was trying to win something for nothing, even though I wasn't...)

Problem with Gambling is that it is like 'Pulling Lots' or what ever it is called in the bible. Asking God to make a decision for you. It 'can' be appropriate if say you had 5 equally appropriate men for pastor but you only needed one and could not decide. Like they did in the OT you may draw lots to see whom God would choose. But it is not supposed to be used for personal gain and such. Games of Chance can be dangerous simply because you are asking God to choose in your favor. Lots is more about God choosing the best candidate.

As for your ten questions, I think those are very good questions.
question 2: I observe that children are sensative to blood. If you can take out blood/language/sexual content(which all I do for myself anyway) then sure, no problem. For my kids it is the harshness of it. Blood, Lang, Sex, Intent, etc.
question 6: Most of the time no, but when theres times when people are simple jerks, and I do get angry. This does cause me to take breaks from games. Probly should stop if this happens too often. Same here. Rarely do others tick me off. I am more concerned with how irritated I can get when my family interrupts me on my computer, game or otherwise.
question 9: I don't see how someone can play a game to God's glory. Maybe it can be done, but I don't see how I could possibly do it. I play games to have fun, and I'm just bieng honest. That would be my point as well. I think to do things to God's Glory you have to be able to actaully Act. Having Voip or TeamSpeak makes it easier to interact. But short of that it is pretty hard to interact. Text in BF2 is extreamely inconvienent.
as for all the other questions, I can answer with a no.

To go further in my look on such games. Take the example of tic tac toe. The game starts with a page of paper with a large "#" written on it. Two players with pencils in thier hands. The first person changes the picture with thier pencil, and then the second takes thier turn. Someone comes out winner at the end of the picture manipulation(or in my case they always end up cats games). I don't see much of a different in computer games. Its all image manipulation. Instead of a paper image, the image is digital. Instead of a pencil, a mouse and keyboard to change the image. The digital image is manipulated with the keyboard and mouse until someone comes out winner. If someone drew a bloody hexagram instead of an "X" or "O" when playing tic tac toe, I would probably not play thier version. The same is true for first person shooters. I still remember when I was a little kid in Rico's Pizza watching a cooler older kid play mortal kombat. Then one of the characters ripped out both the other's arms out and a bloody spew of blood began. Then the big flashing words "FATALITY" appeared and the cool kids were like "awsome!". I almost threw up my pizza. Now that I"m older and I have done things like gutted a fish, or gotten a huge bloody cut on my knee etc, I don't cringe. I think we have to be careful not to subject little ones to graphic content because they are not ready for it and common sense. After that, a game is a game.

Bingo. It takes a while for kids to be prepared for Bloody Violent content. Lets say prepared to prepare to see it (SpaceBalls). I think we have to be carefull to put things into too simple of a perspective. Dots, ink, bits, x's and o's, digital, etc. Satan uses what ever he is allowed to. Pictures say a 1000 words. Again, for example, Doom III is off limits to me. It is just to evil for me.

We also have to remember that God defines Evil. Not our desires or opinions. My opinions today at 40 will continue to change, grow, etc. Sometimes it can be helpful to look at people in thier 70's and 80's. As Christians I often see very relaxed people of that age. They are done with trying to entertain their flesh and are much more controlled by their Spirit. Radical Entertainment is no longer in their desires and needs. Instead it becomes companionship and friendship. Social interaction instead of Anti Social interaction which is basically what computers, in all their uses are, even IM'ing, Forums, etc.


Peace

 

[MeridianFlight]

I'm a little disturbed by the idea of playing a videogame such as Counter Strike for "His glory." Arguing that playing Counter Strike for the "glory of God" is kind of akin to the mindset of those who particpated in the Crusades...you know, the ones who mercilessly slaughtered their enemies and pillaged conquered villages?

Sure, you aren't actually killing anyone, but you're simulating it, and this you cannot deny. It's also not helped by the fact that Counter Strike is a FPS that leans more towards realism in the depiction of its settings. You're killing a representation of another real human being, it doesn't matter what fatigues they're wearing.

Do you think Jesus enjoyed gladiatorial combat? You can counter that videogames are "virtual", but how does pretending make it OK?

 

[Dark Virtue]

I'm a little disturbed by the idea of playing a videogame such as Counter Strike for "His glory." Arguing that playing Counter Strike for the "glory of God" is kind of akin to the mindset of those who particpated in the Crusades...you know, the ones who mercilessly slaughtered their enemies and pillaged conquered villages?

Sure, you aren't actually killing anyone, but you're simulating it, and this you cannot deny. It's also not helped by the fact that Counter Strike is a FPS that leans more towards realism in the depiction of its settings. You're killing a representation of another real human being, it doesn't matter what fatigues they're wearing.

Do you think Jesus enjoyed gladiatorial combat? You can counter that videogames are "virtual", but how does pretending make it OK?

Excellent post. Ditto what Ice said.

 

[DanR12]

"Again, for example, Doom III is off limits to me. It is just to evil for me." I don't mean to question you on your decision on this particular game, but I recently heard that some people interpret DOOM 3 to be a Christian game. It's about a man fighting off demons and the forces of Hell. I'm not taking a side on that, but I found it to be an interesting perspective on the game I thought I'd share.

"Anti Social interaction which is basically what computers, in all their uses are, even IM'ing, Forums, etc." I have to disagree with you on this. Gaming has become quite social for me. Often I'll be at a friend's place and we'll play Madden while chatting over something. When I'm at school I play family in games like Halo 2 and it gives me an opportunity to chat with them and see what's going on. Sure I could pick up the phone, but it would just be a voice conversation instead of some sort of interaction. It's kind of like playing basketball or Monopoly with them from the other side of the state.

 

[MeridianFlight]

"Again, for example, Doom III is off limits to me. It is just to evil for me." I don't mean to question you on your decision on this particular game, but I recently heard that some people interpret DOOM 3 to be a Christian game. It's about a man fighting off demons and the forces of Hell. I'm not taking a side on that, but I found it to be an interesting perspective on the game I thought I'd share.

"Anti Social interaction which is basically what computers, in all their uses are, even IM'ing, Forums, etc." I have to disagree with you on this. Gaming has become quite social for me. Often I'll be at a friend's place and we'll play Madden while chatting over something. When I'm at school I play family in games like Halo 2 and it gives me an opportunity to chat with them and see what's going on. Sure I could pick up the phone, but it would just be a voice conversation instead of some sort of interaction.

Right, why just talk to them when you can attach a plasma grenade to the virtual representation of them and watch them explode in brilliant burning glory!

Oh, fighting in the virtual world is so much fun, because if you were to use a grenade in real life, you might actually kill them, and that would be a sin.

 

[Dark Virtue]

While I agree that gaming can be social and spawn tight knit groups, I still don't believe one can espouse the virtues of God while playing games like CS or BF2.

 

[Dark Virtue]

I think about the day I had. I think about how my children in my classroom are growing and changing. I think about my dog. I think about my relationship with my husband...And while I'm playing I talk to my husband, talk to my dog, and sometimes even talk on the phone with my mom. So it isn't all about KILL KILL KILL...I'm not that type of person...besides if that was the way I was thinking I would seriously think that it was time to back off of CS for a while.

SIGH.

Are you really going to make me be so nitpicky? You know precisely what I am asking, but you're doing your best to avoid the point.

According to your description you're paying attention to everything BUT the game.

Again I will remind you that I am not taking life from another living, breathing human being....I am not "killing people."

Note that I have never equated killing in a game to killing in real life. Once again, you avoid the point. The game is based on killing, plain and simple, virtual as it may be.

Actually I don't think he is...we play for His glory, not our own.

You play, a game that revolves around killing, to glorify God.

Do you hear yourself?

Well I play with a tag, I play on a 'witnessing' server...if somebody comes on and wants to know more about God, we stop all play and spread His word...And many times, like I have said before we may just get into a discussion about The Almighty while we are playing...and everytime that has happened, I have learned something...so that is where I feel we are spreading the Word. And I'm not doing anything illegal when I play this game, so I don't see where you are going with robbing a liquor store - they don't equate...

They DO equate, but you aren't willing to see ANY of the connections that I have brought up.