Calling on God in a game

The Mighty Gerbil

Tribe of Judah TF 2 Chapter Leader & CGA Admin
Staff member
I considered posting this in our game creation forum but it's really more of a moral question.

In fiction you basically end up with science or magic as an explanation as to "special powers". In one of my game ideas I'd like to be able to do that magical feel, like Lord of the Rings or Narnia and make it clear you aren't invoking satan or "magic". My idea is to have a cleric class praying for God's power and instead of mana you'd have faith. Faith would deplete on actions like, lightning attacks, healing, resurrections as well as being attacked. When your faith bar depletes you'd have to pray or read a "holy book" to restore it. Ergo the power is of God, not you, but requires faith to call on him. My difficulty's are...

1. The first problem is you can't have everything be an "ultimate attack" and clearly if God is going to do an attack you aren't going to shrug it off.

2. The second is in multiplayer VS the evil side must be of equal power. Again I'd avoid real satanic terms and imagery but being in opposition of Godly power in a way makes it more real than many magic representations. You could represent the evil "cleric" as powered by lies instead of faith, and to a degree comically, but is that enough? This could be considered a bigger question too in how do you represent evil without glorifying it?

3. The third problem is in a multiplayer FPS most don't pay attention to any background plot so how would this be received?

The idea here is to have God in a positive light, retain a "magical" feel without calling on "magic" and still maintain a balanced game. So what does the Bible say and how would you perceive a game like this?
 
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JGouldie

Member
While I appreciate what it is that you're trying to do, I personally have a few issues with "substituting" God in the place of traditional magic in a video game. My biggest concern is that, traditionally, magic is perceived as a tool that a caster will use to accomplish a task. As such, the caster is in complete control of what magic to use, as well as how, when, and where it will be used. Not so with God - though we may have an abundance of faith, God is not at our beck and call. He works in His own way, at the place and time of His choosing. To "control" God by saying "Smite these foes now" and having it happen implies that the person praying is in control of the situation, when in fact, God is the one in control. If the purpose of such a game is to reach the lost and teach them about God, then this transfer of control would be, at best, sending a mixed message.

Keep at it, though - if there were an easy way to incorporate God into a video game in this way, it would probably have been done years ago. Finding that balance between an enjoyable game and an accurate representation of God's power is no easy task. I don't mean to discourage you from your objective here, so please consider my comments as my own personal opinions on the matter, and do not let them prevent you from moving forward in whatever direction you choose.
 

The Mighty Gerbil

Tribe of Judah TF 2 Chapter Leader & CGA Admin
Staff member
While I appreciate what it is that you're trying to do, I personally have a few issues with "substituting" God in the place of traditional magic in a video game. My biggest concern is that, traditionally, magic is perceived as a tool that a caster will use to accomplish a task. As such, the caster is in complete control of what magic to use, as well as how, when, and where it will be used. Not so with God - though we may have an abundance of faith, God is not at our beck and call. He works in His own way, at the place and time of His choosing. To "control" God by saying "Smite these foes now" and having it happen implies that the person praying is in control of the situation, when in fact, God is the one in control. If the purpose of such a game is to reach the lost and teach them about God, then this transfer of control would be, at best, sending a mixed message.
I understand because that's basically the problem with magic, summoning monsters with blood sacrifices, contracts etc. You aren't really in control with real magic but fiction magic gives the impression you are. Watching things like Naruto I get a raised eyebrow when they make contracts signed in blood to summon monsters to do their bidding. I tend to wonder if they aren't called monsters but Oni (demons) in Japan and it got translated to monsters for western tastes. Similar things with games.

Thing is I don't have a problem with Gandalf using "magic" at will seemingly imbued with it by God. Also in Narina while the protagonists (save Aslan who is basically Christ) don't use magic directly they do via "magical" items which do their biding. Also people did pray for miracles and they did happen in the Bible too does that constitute commanding God if it is in his will? Does John 14:12-14 constitute commanding God? Still I get your point and have no wish to dilute God to a button press.

Keep at it, though - if there were an easy way to incorporate God into a video game in this way, it would probably have been done years ago. Finding that balance between an enjoyable game and an accurate representation of God's power is no easy task. I don't mean to discourage you from your objective here, so please consider my comments as my own personal opinions on the matter, and do not let them prevent you from moving forward in whatever direction you choose.
No worries whatsoever. I want people's true opinions after all they could be customers someday :p . I've got plenty of other ideas too which do involve God but not in a direct, magic using, kind of way. I am only hesitant about this idea so I posted asking everyone's views. Note however while God in gameplay is hard to represent I've long had a deep feeling there is no excuse for there not to be good games written with a Christian moral view. Secular people aren't at the well to be ministered to anymore they are online, watching movies and playing games all with secular, atheist or Taoist worldviews. Also as a Christian one can't spend one day at church and six watching secular media and expect to remain unchanged. There should be Christians shown being action heroes, warriors, detectives, explorers and lovers. Living by their faith without ending up in bed, cussing, or pursuing a path of vengeance and hate. Things like these constitute my other ideas.

Good post, keep them coming other people. No need to agree with me as I would not have posted asking if I didn't have doubt :) .
 
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JGouldie

Member
I understand because that's basically the problem with magic, summoning monsters with blood sacrifices, contracts etc. You aren't really in control with real magic but fiction magic gives the impression you are. Watching things like Naruto I get a raised eyebrow when they make contracts signed in blood to summon monsters to do their bidding. I tend to wonder if they aren't called monsters but Oni (demons) in Japan and it got translated to monsters for western tastes. Similar things with games.
Summoning is a fickle beast.... the caster is in control during the act of summoning, but once the creature has arrived, the caster is no longer in direct control, but rather imposes their will upon the summoned, and the "rules" of the spell dictate that the summoned creature will (or will not) follow the caster's will.

I intended to address the general form of magic, whether that be direct combat (fireball, holy rays), indirect combat (poison, blindness), enhancement (blessings, protection), or healing (cure wounds, cure blindness). In all of these cases, the caster dictates the what, when, and where (or at whom) the spell will take take effect - in essence, they are in charge of the spell. The exact potency of the spell is semi-random within a specified set of boundaries, but it's not the same as "God, if it be thy will, grant me protection from my foe" and then allowing God to decide whether to give you temporary invincibility, an impenetrable shield of justice, or eradicating the foe (thereby nullifying the threat).

Thing is I don't have a problem with Gandalf using "magic" at will seemingly imbued with it by God. Also in Narina while the protagonists (save Aslan who is basically Christ) don't use magic directly they do via "magical" items which do their biding. Also people did pray for miracles and they did happen in the Bible too does that constitute commanding God if it is in his will? Does John 14:12-14 constitute commanding God? Still I get your point and have no wish to dilute God to a button press.
It could be argued that these "magical items" are in fact idols - things we place our faith in that are not God. If you place your trust in a talisman that grants protection from fire, then you are not placing your trust in God and his sufficiency to protect you. To be congruent with scripture, it's an all-or-nothing kind of thing - those that choose to use faith powers must forego all other sources of "magic".

As for John 14, no, I don't believe that scripture implies that one can command God. My belief is that the scripture indicates that if you ask God for something for the sole purpose of bringing honor and glory to His name, then He will do it. The problem is that we are fallen creatures, and there is almost always a selfish ambition behind everything that we do. If we ask God to cure all disease, and He does, who among us would not think to themselves, "He did it because I asked", thereby taking credit (even if only privately) for what God has done? I believe asking God for good things is important, in the same way (to a lesser degree) that we ask our parents for good things - but something I still struggle with is understanding the impact of our supplications. God has a divine and unchanging will, so if I ask (or don't ask), does it matter in the grand scheme of things? I still pray and talk to God about what's on my heart, and "ask" for things (if it be in His will), because my relationship with Him is made stronger when I trust Him by sharing my innermost thoughts. But I digress....

No worries whatsoever. I want people's true opinions after all they could be customers someday.
I didn't want my response to read "That idea stinks", because, honestly, it doesn't. I really like the concept, but I personally have issues with the currently stated implementation. The deference (and you'll see that in a lot of my posts, especially on those concerning spiritual matters - I don't pretend to be a scholar on any level!) is only to indicate that my opinions are just that: opinions. I may be wrong on a lot of things, and I'm certainly open to criticism and feedback if I'm missing the point - that's how we learn, right? Thanks for the kind words.
 

direpath

Member
I tend to seperate my games in regards to magic and the deities associated with a game world. Its not to say that I ignore my calling when I play, I just seek him out of character. Mind you I'm not a hardcore roleplayer. I do however, play my characters as good people and help others. It would be nice to see God represented in a game, however it might turn people away as some just have a wall up between themselves and their Heavenly Father.

As I said in another thread, I do find certain aspects of certain games offensive. I tend to shy away from evil acts by my character (SWTOR was a fine test of this) and over-sexualization. The former is usually presented as an option, be it in character creation or faction selection. If there was instances in a game where they were using it as a medium to promote something considered unholy, then I would be put off. For example, if a game promoted homosexuality I would not support it, however if there was options for that type of inter-character relationship or possibly a homosexual character, I would not be offended or put off.

I hope that all makes sense and is not too off-topic.
 

Patriot

Active Member
Just going to throw out some ideas. . .

1. The first problem is you can't have everything be an "ultimate attack" and clearly if God is going to do an attack you aren't going to shrug it off.
You could look at Samson. Enormous strength, but he did have weakness.

2. The second is in multiplayer VS the evil side must be of equal power. Again I'd avoid real satanic terms and imagery but being in opposition of Godly power in a way makes it more real than many magic representations. You could represent the evil "cleric" as powered by lies instead of faith, and to a degree comically, but is that enough? This could be considered a bigger question too in how do you represent evil without glorifying it?
This is far more difficult. You could always pass off the "good" side losing as something in God's greater plan since we know that it often appears the "good" side is losing in this world. As for representing evil without glorifying it, I think that tends to be almost impossible. Especially, if your audience is the world. They tend to side with evil...

3. The third problem is in a multiplayer FPS most don't pay attention to any background plot so how would this be received?
I think you would be better off promoting Christian values (maybe rewarding good behavior and penalizing bad) rather than doing an overt display of God in a video game. You could take the approach that L4D did where you rotate as the bad/good team.

The idea here is to have God in a positive light, retain a "magical" feel without calling on "magic" and still maintain a balanced game. So what does the Bible say and how would you perceive a game like this?
Interestingly, Lewis refers to it as "magic" in Narnia. But he seems to draw a distinction between witchcraft (bad) and the "old magic" (good). I believe there was a wizard in Voyage of the Dawn Treader who owned a book of magic, but was classified as a good guy.

As far as what the Bible says on the issue I can't really think of an applicable verse.
 

The Mighty Gerbil

Tribe of Judah TF 2 Chapter Leader & CGA Admin
Staff member
Just going to throw out some ideas. . .
You could look at Samson. Enormous strength, but he did have weakness.
Right.

This is far more difficult. You could always pass off the "good" side losing as something in God's greater plan since we know that it often appears the "good" side is losing in this world. As for representing evil without glorifying it, I think that tends to be almost impossible. Especially, if your audience is the world. They tend to side with evil...
Unfortunately right XD.

I think you would be better off promoting Christian values (maybe rewarding good behavior and penalizing bad) rather than doing an overt display of God in a video game.
Right. The games I want to make most are rpgs or tactical rps that have with deep plots that directly represent Christian morals in allegorical worlds. I prefer them too but unfortunately I think the production values would be far and beyond what I could achieve as one lazy dude with no money :p . I'm not about to do it and make yet another bad Christian game either XD. Making a bad game doesn't glorify God. So instead I've been thinking about what is available to me to realistically make a good game.

1. Use a reliable pre-made engine. Thinking Unreal because Source is a train wreck and Unreal is probably the most maintained.
2. Go for the gametype I have the most experience in and for which the engine is most known. That's FPS.
3. Multiplayer because it's easier to create a few rooms than a whole world.
4. Panders to my limited experience. I tried Unreal a bit years ago before my Source map making so I think I could grasp it.

Basically in fast paced FPS games you have little place for a plot (which kinda cuts down on needed resources) yet I still wanted to do something to represent God. Thus came the idea of representing him in the gameplay itself.

You could take the approach that L4D did where you rotate as the bad/good team.
For this idea I wanted to do a class based dungeon diver with semi-randomized rooms (Unreal can't move them but I should be able to alter paths). It would have a L4D style mode with both bots and players controlling the evil ones. However I also wanted a deathmatch mode where you could use equipment gained in the other mode and for that teams need to be balanced. It's got a couple other twists but I don't want to get into my secret gameplay things :p. Hmmm thinking about it now perhaps I could have the deathmatch mode be good VS good with a "training" reasoning. Then I'd be free to have the dungeon mode clearly show the the good guys being more powerful VS more numerous evil ones. I've been thinking of LOTR's Mines of Moria battle for all this anyway.

I could go the naturalistic route making any "magical" power akin to electricity and just call it something different (which I do in other ideas) but being an FPS any clear and positive representative for God has to occur in the gameplay. So "magical" style FPS + clear representing God = immediately thinking of Cleric/Priest etc. Perhaps the power could be available to anyone who trains but requires one to pray and humble himself to God lest he become corrupted by the power like the ones he fights? It sounds a bit to much like the force in Star Wars though, even though it's not (the force had a will etc.).

I'll probably never make this game anyway but I still ask the moral questions involved with it.

I've also been thinking about using Blender to make a game but it was a comedy and has little place for direct Christianity. From my understanding Blender is free to use in a commercial product if you include Blender in the distribution (in essence you are selling the resource files and just distributing Blender with it). I'm hesitant about it though because I haven't found anyone who actual has.
 
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JGouldie

Member
Are you considering a story-based FPS, or a tournament-style FPS? Your comment about the "few rooms rather than a whole world" leads me to think you're doing tournament-style....

If so, I assume you'll be incorporating deathmatch, CTF, and other such game styles. Consider a timed mode called "Apocalypse". This is a timed team deathmatch game, good vs. evil. Players will play one side, then the other. The goal is to kill as many opponents as possible within the time limit. At the end of the time limit, a cut-scene (if you're planning on some CG) will show how good survives, and the evil side is cast into a lake of fire, ala Revelation after the 1000 years. This cutscene plays in the background as the scores are displayed, so players get a healthy dose while still maintaining interest. Scoring can be based on total kills, kills - deaths, a "tug-of-war" style, or any other method you choose.

This kind of tactic ensure that good always survives - because in the end, the evil team is destroyed. Satan knows he is beaten, so all he can do now is grab as many souls as he can before God returns... evil does win the occasional fight, but good will always win the war :)

Even the powerups (ala UT2003) could be dependent on which team you were on. Both sides could receive a weapon upgrade that does (un)holy damage, protective shielding/absorption, or other blessings/curses, but there might be a few good-only and evil-only powerups. Evil could get the ability to release a clone that appears to be a player, shoots like a player, but does no damage - thereby attempting to deceive the good players into giving chase for no reward (while the evil player lies in wait to ambush). Good could get the ability to drop a healing or protective shield that could be shared among multiple teammates, though evil would receive damage from being too close to it. Evil gets invisibility, but good gets an equally temporary archangel mode (invulnerability, flight, etc.). Play off the fact that evil is about deception - sure, it "glorifies" evil in a way, but it's quite clear that it's all lies...

Just some thoughts...
 

The Mighty Gerbil

Tribe of Judah TF 2 Chapter Leader & CGA Admin
Staff member
Are you considering a story-based FPS, or a tournament-style FPS? Your comment about the "few rooms rather than a whole world" leads me to think you're doing tournament-style....

If so, I assume you'll be incorporating deathmatch, CTF, and other such game styles. Consider a timed mode called "Apocalypse". This is a timed team deathmatch game, good vs. evil. Players will play one side, then the other. The goal is to kill as many opponents as possible within the time limit. At the end of the time limit, a cut-scene (if you're planning on some CG) will show how good survives, and the evil side is cast into a lake of fire, ala Revelation after the 1000 years. This cutscene plays in the background as the scores are displayed, so players get a healthy dose while still maintaining interest. Scoring can be based on total kills, kills - deaths, a "tug-of-war" style, or any other method you choose.

This kind of tactic ensure that good always survives - because in the end, the evil team is destroyed. Satan knows he is beaten, so all he can do now is grab as many souls as he can before God returns... evil does win the occasional fight, but good will always win the war :)

Even the powerups (ala UT2003) could be dependent on which team you were on. Both sides could receive a weapon upgrade that does (un)holy damage, protective shielding/absorption, or other blessings/curses, but there might be a few good-only and evil-only powerups. Evil could get the ability to release a clone that appears to be a player, shoots like a player, but does no damage - thereby attempting to deceive the good players into giving chase for no reward (while the evil player lies in wait to ambush). Good could get the ability to drop a healing or protective shield that could be shared among multiple teammates, though evil would receive damage from being too close to it. Evil gets invisibility, but good gets an equally temporary archangel mode (invulnerability, flight, etc.). Play off the fact that evil is about deception - sure, it "glorifies" evil in a way, but it's quite clear that it's all lies...

Just some thoughts...
There was a Christian card game that did a similar thing a long while back. Good was the most powerful but took a while to build up while evil was quicker using lies/deception etc. It's kinda what I was thinking of in the L4D mode. It's not really tournament style the closest comparison would be Borderlands meets L4D for one mode and Borderlands meets TF2 for the other. I'm only really describing the game idea because the context needed to be explained. The need to keep the game idea simple is part of the reason to include God directly within the gameplay. It's like killing two birds with one stone. The more plot you have to show outside of gameplay requires sets, CGI etc. Conversely if you just make the characters and plot/background occur during gameplay you have less resources you need to build and a more immersive story. Instead of the L4D characters having some vulgar conversation you could be talking about things relevant to Christianity, morality and the world at the same time. Having a cleric in a party recurringly using Godly power saying "Father send your grace to my brethren", "I beseech thee Lord smite my enemies" or "Lord deliver us from evil" makes God relevant at any time. I was actually thinking of the rogue class being somewhat of a skeptic to play off of him. I keep thinking of that line from Star Wars "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." but as "Hokey religions are no match for a good sword at your side, kid." XD buuuuut I'd like to avoid the comparison to the taoist-ish faith force XD.

Back to topic though as my concern in posting is how directly using Godly power in a game would be perceived by Christians and of course God. Not really the specific dynamics of any game.

Perhaps you could think of this cleric a Moses type figure? Used by God to fight the Egyptians to free his people this cleric is called on by God to fight. It's a rough comparison though as God's power was to be shown to everyone by Moses it wasn't just a fight but a display for everyone proving God is God.
 
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Patriot

Active Member
Back to topic though as my concern in posting is how directly using Godly power in a game would be perceived by Christians and of course God. Not really the specific dynamics of any game.
I think any game that focuses on God will be lacking. Unlike simplistic shoot-em-up types, you cannot simplify God enough to fit into a game. Other aspects of life can be reduced so that certain elements that are left out go unnoticed (most games remove the need to perform everyday tasks and health is simplified to a numerical value), but spiritual stuff, to me, will always come off as a cheap imitation since it is such a vital part of my life.

As for how God views it, I couldn't really say for sure. It might depend on your motives.
 

Lethalon

Redeemed Guild Leader
It seems another challenge is that by making the two sides in PvP equal, you would be implying that God is equal to Satan, and that certainly doesn't seem to be where you want to go...
 

The Mighty Gerbil

Tribe of Judah TF 2 Chapter Leader & CGA Admin
Staff member
I think any game that focuses on God will be lacking. Unlike simplistic shoot-em-up types, you cannot simplify God enough to fit into a game. Other aspects of life can be reduced so that certain elements that are left out go unnoticed (most games remove the need to perform everyday tasks and health is simplified to a numerical value), but spiritual stuff, to me, will always come off as a cheap imitation since it is such a vital part of my life.
I don't view games as any different than a movie or even a conversation. You can't cover all Godly truth in any of them but that shouldn't stop us from showing whatever we can, wherever we can, whether in life or in games. In all things Christ. The alternative is
a void of truth which will be filled with whatever secular "truths" people want to show, which is basically what we have in media/games today. In representing God which is better? Have only secular games that misrepresent God or Christian games that represent God correctly but incompletely? At least there is a chance of learning something from one. I do share the fear of something being interpreted wrong but we always have that every time we say anything.

It seems another challenge is that by making the two sides in PvP equal, you would be implying that God is equal to Satan, and that certainly doesn't seem to be where you want to go...
Yup that's one of the problems I've highlighted. Yet LOTR and Narnia seem to get around that no problem.

I'd simply distance the Cleric's power from direct divine intervention but the problem with that is I'd still want him praying in battle so why is he doing it? The whole point is to have a positive, clear representative of Christian faith in a magic styled world/battle without the "magic". To remove the regular curses, summons, pentagram-ic imagery, magic references and replace them with something that shows God as just, caring, powerful and appealing.
 
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Odale

Active Member
I was more concerned with how people would interpret the use of God's power in fighting enemies. But Patriot showed us a great remedy for that issue.

I think you would be better off promoting Christian values (maybe rewarding good behavior and penalizing bad) rather than doing an overt display of God in a video game.
Being a crusader or fighter for God is not always seen as a good thing.

As far as what God would say - I don't know, the Bible doesn't cover video games.
 

The Mighty Gerbil

Tribe of Judah TF 2 Chapter Leader & CGA Admin
Staff member
I was more concerned with how people would interpret the use of God's power in fighting enemies. But Patriot showed us a great remedy for that issue.
I agreed with the point Patriot makes and before I made the post already preferred that course. Again most of my ideas are to make plot based RPGs that let one have a Christian worldview story, however, I'm not asking about something easy or that I know about. It's kinda like I'm asking what is 356 x 41233, and the answer I'm getting is just go add 1+1, I know how to do 1+1, in fact I want to do 1+1, I'm asking how to do the hard problem. Simply avoiding the multi-player FPS genre and/or the magical style means you are neglecting reaching an entire group of people.

Let me put it this way would you buy such a game?

If no what is the operative difference with this game and another magic based game that you do play? Both would utilize allegorical or derived names/worlds etc. If the fear is a game positively portraying Godly power giving people the wrong impression about God wouldn't a secular magic based game give people the wrong impression about magic? So why buy magic based games?

Just trying to articulate answers not trying to be argumentative :) . Do realize I've debated myself for quite a while before posting here.
 
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Patriot

Active Member
Let me put it this way would you buy such a game?

If no what is the operative difference with this game and another magic based game that you do play? Both would utilize allegorical or derived names/worlds etc. If the fear is a game positively portraying Godly power giving people the wrong impression about God wouldn't a secular magic based game give people the wrong impression about magic? So why buy magic based games?

Just trying to articulate answers not trying to be argumentative :) . Do realize I've debated myself for quite a while before posting here.
I tend to be very cautious when it comes to games/movies that are marketed from a 'Christian' perspective. Probably more from a general annoyance with the half-baked stuff the Christian community tries to peddle. Usually, the message is okay but the delivery is terrible. This is no reflection on anything you have made or will make, just a general reflection on past experience.

That being said, I would love to see a high quality movie (there have been a handful) or game (I can't think of any) with a real perspective on Christianity.

What might be even more intriguing would be a FPS type game which focused on historical battles. Think Israelites vs. Philistines. Or clearing the Promised land. Multiplayer could pit two squads against each other. 'Magic' doesn't necessarily have to be excluded, but it doesn't need to be central. Short cutscene of the walls of Jericho being tumbled (similar to the 5 second cutscenes at the beginning of L4D2 maps) and then Israelite squad has to rush into the city where the Jericho squad has to defend. Ultimately, the war outcome is already decided, but in a small squad based setting, the small battles could go either way.

You could even do historical based single-player missions (which would allow for easier 'Divine intervention'). Assassination is all the rage these days. So how about you play Ehud and have to sneak into the palace, take out Eglon and then sneak out without being captured? Or you could be one of the two spies sent to Jericho before the battle (co-op play?). You have to sneak through the city and determine troop positions before finding Rahab and sneaking out the window.

I think the Bible is a goldmine of great settings and backstories. But I expect most Christians avoid making such games because of an aversion of violence. But when your audience is already consuming that violence in a secular setting, why not market something similar that actually teaches something?
 

The Mighty Gerbil

Tribe of Judah TF 2 Chapter Leader & CGA Admin
Staff member
I tend to be very cautious when it comes to games/movies that are marketed from a 'Christian' perspective. Probably more from a general annoyance with the half-baked stuff the Christian community tries to peddle. Usually, the message is okay but the delivery is terrible. This is no reflection on anything you have made or will make, just a general reflection on past experience.

That being said, I would love to see a high quality movie (there have been a handful) or game (I can't think of any) with a real perspective on Christianity.
I so agree up to here but...

What might be even more intriguing would be a FPS type game which focused on historical battles. Think Israelites vs. Philistines. Or clearing the Promised land. Multiplayer could pit two squads against each other. 'Magic' doesn't necessarily have to be excluded, but it doesn't need to be central. Short cutscene of the walls of Jericho being tumbled (similar to the 5 second cutscenes at the beginning of L4D2 maps) and then Israelite squad has to rush into the city where the Jericho squad has to defend. Ultimately, the war outcome is already decided, but in a small squad based setting, the small battles could go either way.

You could even do historical based single-player missions (which would allow for easier 'Divine intervention'). Assassination is all the rage these days. So how about you play Ehud and have to sneak into the palace, take out Eglon and then sneak out without being captured? Or you could be one of the two spies sent to Jericho before the battle (co-op play?). You have to sneak through the city and determine troop positions before finding Rahab and sneaking out the window.
The above is not a bad idea, I'd play it but it's not going to be played by secular people no matter how good you make it. A historical Christian game is generally only of interest to Christians and leaves the unsaved with nothing to reach them. I've long felt that's one of the reasons why the world has gotten so bad. Absence of Christian morals in media.

I think the Bible is a goldmine of great settings and backstories. But I expect most Christians avoid making such games because of an aversion of violence. But when your audience is already consuming that violence in a secular setting, why not market something similar that actually teaches something?
It IS a great goldmine but it is in application that it has it's greatest strength. I want my games to teach as well but teach morals and biblical truths not dates and names. The ideas I do actually want to make are stories that could and will have direct biblical quotes as answers but in new worlds. For example one of my ideas (not the one I've been questioning) has a character that is similar to Saul's story. He persecutes others unjustly, becomes a murderer, has a Damascus road experience and becomes the greatest advocate to those he once persecuted. This story can be filled with direct biblical quotes yet it occurs in the fictional, war torn, world of Mon ("monsters" who were once men) and Men. Again historical games are great for Christians learning the Bible but there is nothing to reach the unsaved. Was not Paul all things to all people? He maintained the same message but adapted his teaching to the thought in the culture to reach them. This is what I strongly feel is lacking in the world today. Not to make God "hip" but to make him relevant in the games people are playing today.

Anyway I'll probably just have to put the original topic on my unresolved ponder backburner.
 
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Lethalon

Redeemed Guild Leader
The above is not a bad idea, I'd play it but it's not going to be played by secular people no matter how good you make it. A historical Christian game is generally only of interest to Christians and leaves the unsaved with nothing to reach them. I've long felt that's one of the reasons why the world has gotten so bad. Absence of Christian morals in media.
While I am inclined to agree, your comment made me think of

1 Corinthians 1:18 said:
For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Christian morals in media are all good and well, but without a changed heart, they don't matter much...
 

The Mighty Gerbil

Tribe of Judah TF 2 Chapter Leader & CGA Admin
Staff member
Christian morals in media are all good and well, but without a changed heart, they don't matter much...
Of course without the holy spirit working on people all our efforts are useless but that goes for any ministry.

I've heard about ministries to third world nations, skateboard parks, and malls but there is a specific, growing, sect of people who exist only in virtual worlds. Where the people are has changed but we've yet to follow them. If we expect to reach them with any message we have to go were they are.

Random thought brought on by post :p .
 
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Lethalon

Redeemed Guild Leader
I wasn't commenting on going where they are at all.

My comment was meant to be more along the lines of, it is not an absence of morals in the media, but an absence of Christ and God's Word in the media.

Morals don't make Christians...

Romans 10:17 said:
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
I'd also point out that even though Paul's method of teaching may have adapted to the culture, I'm not sure that his behavior adapted as freely.
 

The Mighty Gerbil

Tribe of Judah TF 2 Chapter Leader & CGA Admin
Staff member
Morals don't make Christians...
Morals certainly don't make Christians but you can't have salvation without repentance, repentance without sin and sin without saying some things are wrong, which is kind of what morals are. Yes to bring people to Christ is the goal but to many Churches are condoning sinful things, like homosexuality, to fill their pews. If we are called to teach others to obey everything Christ commanded he spoke of more things than just salvation.

I'd also point out that even though Paul's method of teaching may have adapted to the culture, I'm not sure that his behavior adapted as freely.
Certainly not. No fear I'm not going to do sinful things to save sinners like make a Christian porn game or something XD. Rather the opposite I want to make quality games which are not only acceptable but positive witnesses for Christianity. If I thought all video games were evil by virtue of being video games I wouldn't be playing them much less think of making them.
 
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