Can Salvation give a 2nd chance for sinners?

[cc.slim]

Ahahhaha That silly duck again wut yeh Afffflac!!!! The title says it all! A second chance when only "One" is needed, Second in this race is last! Believe me not if you so wish but you are saved or your not. Sin is sin,no way around what is and everyday we face sin its how we handle the sin before us that shows where we stand. Do I continue to sin well I do but not on purpose, but in mans eyes I might. We(Christan's are not to let blame on the teachings of Christ) continue to grow in stature edifying each other encouraging and uplifting so a second chance means just what in the race of life. Here or there? hehehehe. >

 

[aka Ash]

If we do not ask God to forgive us, we are not showing that we regret our mistakes... we are not repenting our sins.

Exactly...thank you.

If we do not ask God to forgive us, we are taking Him and His gift for granted, and are showing we are not worried about repenting(turning away from) our sins.

 

[Durruck]

Kind of a followup to my previous post - I was actually thumbing through my Bible looking for a response to something else and came across the Lord's Prayer.... in part:

forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us

If this is the prayer that Jesus taught us, how can asking forgiveness be most abhorent to God?

 

[Zeena]

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus!

But at the same time... by asking Jesus for forgiveness, are we not stepping up and telling Him that we understand our positions - that we do not deserve what He has given us, and thanking Him for taking our place?

God does not say we are not worthy of Him, unless we deny Him..

Matthew 10:37
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

If you truly Love Jesus you will join Him in His sufferings

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

He is honoured to die for us! He is honoured to call us His brother, sister and friend!

Matthew 12:50
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Doesn't admitting our wrongs to God show that we are honest with Him and ourselves?

Yes! But admitting you're needy and asking for forgiveness are two totally separate things!

Doesn't it show that we're not afraid to admit that we're not perfect, and by asking Him to forgive and help us, give Him an open door to help mould us?

I will only quote scripture here, for I do not wish to offend you..

Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:43
All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."
Acts 13:38
"Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you.

ONLY Jesus ever conquered the power of indwelling sin, on the cross, when He bore ours..He who knew no sin became sin for us!

Doesn't it give Him another way to help make us who we want to (and should) be?

His fire is burning inside me as I write this!
What, pray tell, can YOU do for God?
What, pray tell, do you have that He doesn't?
And what are you thinking when you say you will help Him?!?!?

There's only ONE way to God and that is Jesus!

Galatians 3:3
Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?

The entire purpose in Jesus coming down to save us was because we were not able to save ourselves..

As with the relationship that I have with those around me. I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong, to ask forgiveness for my transgretions. This is an act of LOVE. I show that I'm willing to put it all out there.

No greater love is there than this..
That a man lay down his life for another!
Jesus did this for YOU!
Or, when did you lay down your life..Hrmm?

Hebrews 12:4
In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.

Hebrews 6:1
Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God
1 John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Originally Posted by Zeena
I often hear Christians asking forgiveness of thier sins

This is most abhorent to God and aught not to be so!

Yes, actually I would love to see scripture that backs up that statement.
sin is abhorant to God. So it's a sin to ask forgiveness for your transgressions against God?

You ask, and so you act as tho you had not recieved forgivness in Chirst!
Jesus is not ONLY Life, He is ETERNAL Life, those who are forgiven in Him are forgiven for ETERNITY!

As for scripture references on abhorrence of this to God I quote the entire book of Ezekiel..
But here I will reference the New Testament..
Luke 6:37, Mark 3:28, Romans 5:6, Romans 5:8, 2 Corinthians 5:14-15, Galatians 2:21, 1 Thessalonians 5:10

1 Peter 3:18-22
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father. I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Jesus gave you His Life!
Don't let go!
He IS Holy!
He IS Righteous!
He IS from everlasting!
And if He's Living in you, He will shine!

Matthew 22:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Matthew 9:6
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Romans 11
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

If you need to ask forgiveness for your sins then it is no longer Grace, but Law!

Jesus did it!
He won us back to God by His Life!
IT IS FINISHED!

Ergo we are now Human beings! Being in order to do, instead of doing in order to be..The doing is the law, and the power of law is death..God has set before you death and Life this day, chose Life that you may live!

 

[Zeena]

Kind of a followup to my previous post - I was actually thumbing through my Bible looking for a response to something else and came across the Lord's Prayer.... in part:

Luke 11:4
And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.


If this is the prayer that Jesus taught us, how can asking forgiveness be most abhorent to God?

Isaiah 48:9
For my name's sake will I defer mine anger, and for my praise will I refrain for thee, that I cut thee not off.

Scripture is ONLY interpreted by scripture..

Matthew 6:14-15
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matthew 18:21-22
Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Matthew 18:34-35
And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Mark 11:25
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Luke 6:37-38
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Luke 5:20-26
And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee. And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts? Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk?
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.
And immediately he rose up before them, and took up that whereon he lay, and departed to his own house, glorifying God.
And they were all amazed, and they glorified God, and were filled with fear, saying, We have seen strange things to day.

Luke 5
To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Unforgiveness creates a barrier in our faith of Jesus, because we KNOW He has forgiven the sins of the whole world! If we chose not to forgive we cannot possibly recieve the forgiveness from God, for we are living as tho Christ's sacrifice was futile! And so it is, due to unbelief..

Ephesians 4:32
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Colossians 2:13-14
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

1 John 2:12
I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

Our sins ARE forgiven in Christ, whether past, present or future, for God, our God, is Eternal! The sins of the entire world are forgiven, for Jesus died for all, therefore ALL died! When we hold unforgiveness against our brother we nullify the cross! EVEN IF that brother is YOU We profane the name of Jesus when we say we must ask for forgiveness AGAIN!

Ezekiel 20:44
And ye shall know that I am the LORD when I have wrought with you for my name's sake, not according to your wicked ways, nor according to your corrupt doings, O ye house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Ezekiel 36:23
And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

Ezekiel 39:7
So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

Zechariah 2:13
Be silent, O all flesh, before the LORD: for he is raised up out of his holy habitation.

Isaiah 45:8
Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.

Isaiah 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

 

[aka Ash]

Zeena...

The bible specifically says homosexuality is an abomination. It says liars, murmerers, backbiters, murderers, etc will have their place in the burning lake of fire, but you have not shown one specific, not one, where God claims it is abhorant to him to ask for forgiveness.

I don't ask for forgiveness because of law, but because of guilt, that I would allow sin to enter after he promised me eternal life, after he made the ultimate sacrifice. I ask for forgiveness from my brother or sister if I wrong them. Is that law, or having a good heart?

And the beauty is he forgives me each and every time...Praise God.

 

[Durruck]

Doesn't it give Him another way to help make us who we want to (and should) be?

His fire is burning inside me as I write this!
What, pray tell, can YOU do for God?
What, pray tell, do you have that He doesn't?
And what are you thinking when you say you will help Him?!?!?

I didn't say that I was doing something for Him. I was saying that I was choosing to let Him into my life. Anything God wants to do, He can do. Anything God can do for us, He wants us to choose to let Him do it. That's what free will is about.

As with the relationship that I have with those around me. I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong, to ask forgiveness for my transgretions. This is an act of LOVE. I show that I'm willing to put it all out there.

No greater love is there than this..
That a man lay down his life for another!
Jesus did this for YOU!
Or, when did you lay down your life..Hrmm?

Again, I was only implying that I'm willing to look inward - to the plank in my eye and see that I have sinned, that I'm sorry for it. That no matter what others may think of me, that when I ask forgiveness, Jesus is right there and has already taken up my slack. But I'm not taking it for granted. I don't just assume that Jesus knows that I was wrong and He took my place... I'll tell those around me that I screwed up and Jesus saved me. That is part of witnessing.

Quote:
Kind of a followup to my previous post - I was actually thumbing through my Bible looking for a response to something else and came across the Lord's Prayer.... in part:

Luke 11:4
And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.


If this is the prayer that Jesus taught us, how can asking forgiveness be most abhorent to God?

Not to nit-pick, but you quoted me, then changed what I wrote. I didn't paraphrase what I typed. I copied it, word for word from my Bible. My bible says

forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us

. I've searched online in other modern translations to find the same. I understand your point - that we are forgiven from the moment we believe.... but you're still not addressing my point.

Regardless of the translation you use, the phrase says "forgive us our {sins, transgressions, trespasses, debts (that would be paid on the cross, if Jesus hadn't taken our place)}". If we aren't supposed to ask forgiveness each time we sin, why is it in the Lord's Prayer?

 

[Zeena]

Let me ask just one thing...

WHAT did you recieve from God upon believing on Jesus as the propitiation for your sins?

1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Tho the answer may be more than one paraphrase, it aught to reflect accuratly all that the Lord has done in the person of Jesus

 

[aka Ash]

Regardless of the translation you use, the phrase says "forgive us our {sins, transgressions, trespasses, debts (that would be paid on the cross, if Jesus hadn't taken our place)}". If we aren't supposed to ask forgiveness each time we sin, why is it in the Lord's Prayer?

I have to ask the same question Zeena.

 

[Zeena]

Answer me first please?

 

[the_great_eskimo_pie]

How about everyone answers the question without waiting on the other?

 

[Durruck]

WHAT did you recieve from God upon believing on Jesus as the propitiation for your sins?

I believe that at the moment I believed, all of the sins that I had committed to that point in time were taken away.

I still believe that any future sins I commit will also be covered, but I feel that between me & God... I need to ask - to show Him that I really am sorry for what I've done, not just sin...then say "eh, God will cover me....I can keep sinning".

When I ask forgiveness for new sins... I'm asking Jesus to add that sin to the "pile of forgiven and forgotten sins". I don't assume that He'll just do it if I don't ask Him to.

So, now that I've answered you, please explain to me why asking God for forgiveness is in the Lord's Prayer if I'm not supposed to do it?

 

[aka Ash]

I believe that at the moment I believed, all of the sins that I had committed to that point in time were taken away.

I still believe that any future sins I commit will also be covered, but I feel that between me & God... I need to ask - to show Him that I really am sorry for what I've done, not just sin...then say "eh, God will cover me....I can keep sinning".

When I ask forgiveness for new sins... I'm asking Jesus to add that sin to the "pile of forgiven and forgotten sins". I don't assume that He'll just do it if I don't ask Him to.

So, now that I've answered you, please explain to me why asking God for forgiveness is in the Lord's Prayer if I'm not supposed to do it?

I'm going to cop out on an answer because Durruck's answer was exactly what I believe too. So I'll will also ask the same question.

why is asking God for forgiveness is in the Lord's Prayer if I'm not supposed to do it?

 

[Zeena]

Zeena...
The bible specifically says homosexuality is an abomination. It says liars, murmerers, backbiters, murderers, etc will have their place in the burning lake of fire, but you have not shown one specific, not one, where God claims it is abhorant to him to ask for forgiveness.

Did you not read the book of Ezekiel, as I quoted, here are the most relevant scriptures concerning such:All that is required is a simple click of a mouse, as the Lord has provided the links (although the most relevant text is quoted here).

Jeremiah 16:18
And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have filled mine inheritance with the carcases of their detestable and abominable things.

Ezekiel 5:11
Wherefore, as I live, saith the Lord GOD; Surely, because thou hast defiled my sanctuary with all thy detestable things, and with all thine abominations, therefore will I also diminish thee; neither shall mine eye spare, neither will I have any pity.
Ezekiel 7:20
As for the beauty of his ornament, he set it in majesty: but they made the images of their abominations and of their detestable things therein: therefore have I set it far from them.
Ezekiel 13: 6 Ezekiel 14:3 3"Son of man, these men have (A)set up their idols in their hearts and have (B)put right before their faces the stumbling block of their iniquity Should I be (C)consulted by them at all? Ezekiel 15:5-7 Ezekiel 16:20-21 & 58-63 Ezekiel 20:14-49
Ezekiel 21: 24Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand.
Ezekiel 22:4
Ezekiel 22
8Thou hast despised mine holy things, and hast profaned my sabbaths.
24Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation.
Ezekiel 22:18-31
Ezekiel 23
18So she discovered her whoredoms, and discovered her nakedness: then my mind was alienated from her, like as my mind was alienated from her sister. 19 Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt[/u].
Ezekiel 23:21
35Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD;Because thou hast forgotten me, and cast me behind thy back, therefore bear thou also thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.

36The LORD said moreover unto me; Son of man, wilt thou judge Aholah and Aholibah? yea, declare unto them their abominations;
37That they have committed adultery, and blood is in their hands, and with their idols have they committed adultery, and have also caused their sons, whom they bare unto me, to pass for them through the fire, to devour them.
38Moreover this they have done unto me:they have defiled my sanctuary in the same day, and have profaned my sabbaths.
39For when they had slain their children to their idols, then they came the same day into my sanctuary to profane it; and, lo, thus have they done in the midst of mine house.

Ezekiel 24:
6Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the bloody city, to the pot whose scum is therein, and whose scum is not gone out of it! bring it out piece by piece; let no lot fall upon it.
7For her blood is in the midst of her; she set it upon the top of a rock; she poured it not upon the ground, to cover it with dust;
8That it might cause fury to come up to take vengeance; I have set her blood upon the top of a rock, that it should not be covered.
9Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the bloody city! I will even make the pile for fire great.
10Heap on wood, kindle the fire, consume the flesh, and spice it well, and let the bones be burned.
11Then set it empty upon the coals thereof, that the brass of it may be hot, and may burn, and that the filthiness of it may be molten in it, that the scum of it may be consumed.
12She hath wearied herself with lies, and her great scum went not forth out of her: her scum shall be in the fire.
13In thy filthiness is lewdness: because I have purged thee, and thou wast not purged, thou shalt not be purged from thy filthiness any more, till I have caused my fury to rest upon thee.
14I the LORD have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent; according to thy ways, and according to thy doings, shall they judge thee, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 24:21
Ezekiel 29:16
And it shall be no more the confidence of the house of Israel, which bringeth their iniquity to remembrance, when they shall look after them: but they shall know that I am the Lord GOD.

Ezekiel 37:23
Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

Hebrews 10:3
But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

God loved our sinful race so much that he sent his Son. He will not, cannot, forgive and accept us except on the basis of Jesus' sacrifice. To do otherwise would betray the integrity of God's own holy character.

Daniel 11:31
And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

1 Corinthians 12:27
Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Colossians 3:5-10
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him

Ephesians 5:30
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Mark 3:29
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

1 Kings 17
18And she said unto Elijah, What have I to do with thee, O thou man of God? art thou come unto me to call my sin to remembrance, and to slay my son?

Exodus 13:3
And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place: there shall no leavened bread be eaten.

Joshua 1:13
Remember the word which Moses the servant of the LORD commanded you, saying, The LORD your God hath given you rest, and hath given you this land.

Deuteronomy 16:12
And thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt: and thou shalt observe and do these statutes.

Isaiah 26:8
Yea, in the way of thy judgments, O LORD, have we waited for thee; the desire of our soul is to thy name, and to the remembrance of thee.

Isaiah 43:26
Put me in remembrance: let us plead together: declare thou, that thou mayest be justified.

Ecclesiastes 1:11
There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

2 Samuel 19
19And said unto the king, Let not my lord impute iniquity unto me, neither do thou remember that which thy servant did perversely the day that my lord the king went out of Jerusalem, that the king should take it to his heart.
20For thy servant doth know that I have sinned: therefore, behold, I am come the first this day of all the house of Joseph to go down to meet my lord the king.

Hebrews 10
1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;9Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;21And having an high priest over the house of God;22Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised; ) 24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;33Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. 34For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
35Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. 36For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. 37For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. 38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

abomination? still?

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

I don't ask for forgiveness because of law, but because of guilt, that I would allow sin to enter after he promised me eternal life, after he made the ultimate sacrifice. I ask for forgiveness from my brother or sister if I wrong them. Is that law, or having a good heart?

And the beauty is he forgives me each and every time...Praise God.

Romans 2
15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

Isaiah 57:8
Behind the doors also and the posts hast thou set up thy remembrance: for thou hast discovered thyself to another than me, and art gone up; thou hast enlarged thy bed, and made thee a covenant with them; thou lovedst their bed where thou sawest it.

So, now that I've answered you, please explain to me why asking God for forgiveness is in the Lord's Prayer if I'm not supposed to do it?

You quoted from Mathew, but Luke witness' mentions this as well, for more Light on this subject

Luke 11:4
And forgive us our sins;for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

You must look at the light of the sciptures as tho it were from God to you, and not the other way around..

So, in this light, is it really you praying such? Or is it not you reflecting the Spirit of the Lord..?

God wrote these verses FOR you, so that you may be edified knowing that you have been forgiven

 

[Zeena]

There are many promises with God, but none so exciting perhaps as that which assures us that his life in us will increase as we allow ourselves to decrease. As we let go of our preconceptions, Christ fills us with new vision. As we give up our petty tyrannies of self-control, Christ empowers us with a life force we could never exercise by the energy of our own human wills alone. As we acknowledge that God abides in us only as we abide in the truth and that just as he inhabits our praise so he also inhabits our confessions of fault and our willingness to acknowledge that all goodness and power of righteousness in us is only by his grace through the indwelling Lordship of Christ in our hearts by love, we are transformed into his image and the purpose of his church is fulfilled as others are drawn to him in us.
The lost are not drawn to him because of our efforts to emulate (attempt to be like) Christ. They are drawn to him because they see him in us as we confess it is not us that performs the miracles they see! This is the sweet surrender that moves mountains. This is the power of God that draws the lost to repentance. This is the confession of our mouths that saves us and offers redemption to a lost and dying world.
We are not the answer. Jesus is!

 

[Genesis1315]

You must look at the light of the sciptures as tho it were from God to you, and not the other way around..

So, in this light, is it really you praying such? Or is it not you reflecting the Spirit of the Lord..?

God wrote these verses FOR you, so that you may be edified knowing that you have been forgiven

Actually, I think it is us bringing our spirit / soul / free will / thoughts / etc in line with the Spirit of God. And it is in this act that we confess to the Lord what we have done wrong, as an acknowledgement of awareness of the sin commited against our Lord.

If Jesus gave us the example, probably a good idea to do it????

 

[Genesis1315]

After a little more consideration.....

Perhaps we are looking at 2 different times of sinning - 1 pre-salvation, 1 post salvation.

1. Pre Salvation sins - forgiven at the time of acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. They were forgiven, we don't need to repent for them again. We may need to take steps to prevent the enemy from regaining ground, but either God forgives the sins or He doesn't (though Christ).


2. Post Salvation sins - Any sin after the acceptance as Christ as Lord.
These we need to ask for forgiveness. Please reference above post for additional clarification.

I would also think that Salvation gives more that just a 2nd chance.

Gen

 

[Zeena]

2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."

 

[Durruck]

Zeena, I'm still not sure where you're pulling your conclusion that God hates it when we confess to HIM our sins? Much of the Bible that you've quoted doesn't even apply. You quote 10 verses, then bold and underline one of them as applicable. I'll be honest, you've lost me in your explanations.

However, I would like to discuss the points that you've highlighted as important to our discussion.

Did you not read the book of Ezekiel

Yes. I've read through all of the material you've provided. I really have. All I see here is that God hates that we sin.

Hebrews 10:3
But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

This actually is not a full enough of a quote to fully explain what is being said here. This passage tells us that the law has changed. In Old Testament times, the bulls and goats were sacrificed to God as part of our repentance. This passage explains to us that Jesus has taken our place, and that such sacrifices of animals is no longer needed. This tells us that we need not feel guilty for the way we once were; that once we find Jesus, that all of the old is washed away.

It does not, however, state that we should just ignore any new sins. That's the topic of discussion in the past 3 pages of this thread. So I'll continue.

God loved our sinful race so much that he sent his Son. He will not, cannot, forgive and accept us except on the basis of Jesus' sacrifice. To do otherwise would betray the integrity of God's own holy character.

Ah, something we agree on, 100%.

Hebrews 10

Yes! Exactly! We no longer have to offer sacrifices to God. God sacrificed Jesus on our behalf! He took away our sins. But again, it does not say that any new transgression is immediately taken away. We still have to bring it to God! More later in my conclusion.

You quoted from Mathew, but Luke witness' mentions this as well, for more Light on this subject
Quote:
Luke 11:4
And forgive us our sins;for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

Exactly! The Lord's Prayer, the one that Jesus told us to say to God still has us asking God to forgive us everyday for the new sins we made.

You must look at the light of the sciptures as tho it were from God to you, and not the other way around..

Whaaat? Why would God be telling me that I'm sorry for sinning? I already know that. I make a mistake, which takes away from God's glory... that drives the nail deeper into Jesus' hand. I'm aware of that.

So, in this light, is it really you praying such? Or is it not you reflecting the Spirit of the Lord..?

It is both. It's still me telling God that I'm sorry. It's still me telling God that I love Him, that I appreciate that He sent Jesus to take my place. It's still me asking God for help in my life because I'm imperfect and know that I can't do this on my own. So for that part, it is me praying as such.

But, Jesus gave us an example of how to pray. When you sat down and prayed for the very first time, was it not something that felt uncomfortable because you didn't know exactly what to say to God? I know that the first time that I tried to pray, to truly ask God for forgiveness, help, comfort... that I was terrified. Not because I thought He would decline my request, but because I didn't know what to say. I didn't know how to adequatly say what I needed. Jesus gave us the example of how to pray. Not just in the Lord's Prayer, but several places through the New Testament, Jesus went off to pray - giving thanks to our Father, then opening the door for discourse with Him. So in that regard, it is me reflecting upon the Spirit of the Lord.

God wrote these verses FOR you, so that you may be edified knowing that you have been forgiven.

That's what the whole New Testament is about. God inspired the penmen of the books so that we can live knowing that in Christ, our sins are washed away.

And that's exactly what has happened.

Here is my conclusion that I alluded to earlier. We were filth before we came to Jesus. We were washed clean by His love, by His sacrifice. But if we go out in the pig pen again, will we not be dirty and needing cleansed again? Jesus didn't need an annual sacrifice. He made the eternal one for US! But you can't go roll in the mud and walk away knowing that you'll be washed clean, you still have to go to the cleaner and ask Him to remove the stains. It just so happens that the Cleaner is right there with you, all of the time. So the journey is short. Tell the Cleaner that you rolled in the mud, that you know you shouldn't have. Ask for forgiveness, and the Cleaner will wash the mud away and you're as clean as you were the moment that you first believed.

 

[Durruck]

Bah, I forgot to address one last thing. (mod add in if you want..)

2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."

Yes! This is calling us to change our lives after we accept Jesus. It's telling us to stop sinning. Again, something we agree upon.

[/quote=Genesis1315]After a little more consideration.....

Perhaps we are looking at 2 different times of sinning - 1 pre-salvation, 1 post salvation.

1. Pre Salvation sins - forgiven at the time of acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. They were forgiven, we don't need to repent for them again. We may need to take steps to prevent the enemy from regaining ground, but either God forgives the sins or He doesn't (though Christ).


2. Post Salvation sins - Any sin after the acceptance as Christ as Lord.
These we need to ask for forgiveness. Please reference above post for additional clarification.

Actually, I think it is us bringing our spirit / soul / free will / thoughts / etc in line with the Spirit of God. And it is in this act that we confess to the Lord what we have done wrong, as an acknowledgement of awareness of the sin commited against our Lord.

If Jesus gave us the example, probably a good idea to do it????

[/quote]

Exactly what I was aiming at.

I would also think that Salvation gives more that just a 2nd chance.

Amen.

lastly, I'd like to quote 1John 1:9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrightousness

Confessing our sins is the key to our freedom from them. The point to my entire stance in the last 3 pages of this thread.