Concerning Hell

Do you really need a pastor to tell you not to throw hemi from the top of your roof( Thou shall not commit murder!)

do you really need it interrupted do not steal Mr Bills wallet? ( Thou shall not steal)

Do you reall need a elder to tell you not to tell your mother to go @()@(@@*&@@&@*&@(*)&? Herself. ( Honor thy mother and father)

I could go on but where is the interpretation on how to behave in a good and holy manner confusing. Classical you are pointing to the speck in our eye, when a two by four is protruding from your head!

Its not misinterpret, your are focusing on the wrong questions.

I see Gods word clearly coming across.
 
But you don't need God telling you that either.

You don't need to know the Golden Rule to know you should treat others as you would want to be treated yourself.

Morality can exist independantly of religion.
 
Humm.. But you are assuming that religion is the only source of morallity. This is just not so. I'm agnostic, and yet I am a highly moral person.
 
Yes, it can, even Killlers can have morals and treat others humane, it does not make what they do ok. Adn I agree wholeheartly, I have non godly and non chrsitian moral friends. But That doesnot mean I should ever stop speading the good news. And if you truly believe in your heart you do no9t need God or want anything to do with him. I am sorry you feel that way.

But For me and my house

We'll Serve the Lord!
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]But you don't need God telling you that either.

You don't need to know the Golden Rule to know you should treat others as you would want to be treated yourself.

Morality can exist independantly of religion.
Click to expand...

If you cannot look around the world today and see that the lack of the Golden Rule prevails, your blinders are on to more than just God. It seems the law of the land today is "do unto others before they can do unto you."

As for morality prevailing without religion, that is absurd as there is no baseline for what morality is. If there is a baseline for morality without God, what is it? You and I are not going to agree on what this base set of moral laws are going to be. With the Bible atleast you have a set of rules handed down, whether we live up to those is our choice, but the standard is there and has been set in place.

Can people be nice without religion? I think so. Can they be moral? Thats a whole different story.

Cory
 
I have my own set of morals, but they are essentially the same as those that are generally accepted. I think it's best to be flexible with morality though, as society is ever changing and frequently wrong. Advice: Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Thaddius @ Aug. 30 2004,11:22)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]But you don't need God telling you that either.

You don't need to know the Golden Rule to know you should treat others as you would want to be treated yourself.

Morality can exist independantly of religion.
Click to expand...

If you cannot look around the world today and see that the lack of the Golden Rule prevails, your blinders are on to more than just God.  It seems the law of the land today is "do unto others before they can do unto you."

As for morality prevailing without religion, that is absurd as there is no baseline for what morality is.  If there is a baseline for morality without God, what is it?  You and I are not going to agree on what this base set of moral laws are going to be.  With the Bible atleast you have a set of rules handed down, whether we live up to those is our choice, but the standard is there and has been set in place.

Can people be nice without religion? I think so.  Can they be moral?  Thats a whole different story.

Cory
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, but religion doesn't exactly have a good track record with morality either.

Hello? Suicide Bombers? The Crusades? Persecution of other religions?

Please don't read into what I've said. I'm not saying that the world is perfect, it's not. But look at the Bible, it was far from perfect with God in the picture. Sodom and Gommorah anyone? It got so bad God wanted to wipe everyone out. So how can you tell me it was any better with religion?

Please explain why you think us nonbelievers are doomed to immorality?
 
Let me clarify something. I did not mean to direct that just non believers are immoral. We are all immoral, and fall victim to sin. Even Christians have this folly. What I was trying to say, is that the Bible gives us a base set of morals to follow. The morals of the world change, but Gods law has not. As Christians, we are to strive to become like Christ, and that means that we need to be moral and pure based apon the Biblical teachings. When I said that people cannot be moral without religion, that is what I am referencing. Biblical teaching. And that is because what the world considers moral and what the Bible consideres moral do not always agree.

Cory
 
Exactly. There are plenty of people that do not agree with the morality in the Bible.

You say God's law hasn't changed, but isn't that untrue?

Didn't Christ change God's law?


[b said:
Quote[/b] ]As Christians, we are to strive to become like Christ, and that means that we need to be moral and pure based apon the Biblical teachings.
Click to expand...

I may not strive to be like Christ, but I strive to be a moral and upright person. I'd be a liar if I said I didn't abide by the 10 commandments. But not because of their RELIGIOUS significance, but because of their MORALE value. Guess what, there are plenty of morals to be gleaned from other religions.
 
The bible does give a good base set of morals but, u don't need the bible to know that u have to treat others with respect. I take that as common sense.

And alot of history is filled with things done in the name of religion. And if there was a god, he'd be disgusted with most of them.

Persicution of other religions is more of a christian thing, from burnig up pagan temples, and killing of people that disagreed with the bible. But thats could be a whole new thread by its self.

offtopic:
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]It seems the law of the land today is "do unto others before they can do unto you."
Click to expand...
Thats the bush law and he reads the bible, everyday if Im not mistaken.

Sry I had to put that in.:p
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]You say God's law hasn't changed, but isn't that untrue?

Didn't Christ change God's law?
Click to expand...

Not in my Bible...

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]-- King James
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

-- New King James
Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

-- American Standard
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.

-- Living Bible
Matthew 5:17 ``Don't misunderstand why I have come--it isn't to cancel the laws of Moses and the warnings of the prophets. No, I came to fulfill them, and to make them all come true.

-- Revised Standard
Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.

-- Simple English
Matthew 5:17 ``Do not think I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I did not come to destroy them. to give them their full meaning.

-- Transliterated, Pronounceable
Matthew 5:17 "Mee' nomi'seete ho'ti ee'lthon katalu'sai to'n no'monee' tou's profee'tas. Ouk ee'lthon katalu'sai alla' pleeroo'sai.

-- Transliterated, Unaccented
Matthew 5:17 "Me nomisete hoti elthon katalusai ton nomone tous profetas. Ouk elthon katalusai alla plerosai.

-- New American Standard
Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.

-- New Jerusalem with Apocrypha
Matthew 5:17 `Do not imagine that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete them.

-- New American with Apocrypha
Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.

-- New Revised Standard with Apocrypha
Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.
Click to expand...

If you think Christ came to change the law, your mistaken.

Cory
 
Morallity has become synonymous with religion because the church's role in governing has historically leaned towards the softer, more humanistic side of human affairs, trancending all the political correctness and mechanized drudgery of daily life. But this does not mean that morality cannot exist without religion. I believe in the inherent goodness of the human being, where morality, I think, originally came from. Religions can claim to be the sole promoter of morality, but I think they are mistaken. Like I said, I am not religious, yet I strive to be moral. By your logic, this cannot be.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Like I said, I am not religious, yet I strive to be moral. By your logic, this cannot be.
Click to expand...

You strive to be moral in your own eyes. I am comparing it to scripture, not the gospel of Mr.Bill. While you may feel that you are a moral person, compared to scripture, that may or may not be true.

Cory
 
I think that society has a pretty good start for morallity, but I prefer to keep mine exclusive since I'm an independent mind. I have no 'standard' per se, I don't think such a standard exists. I believe that the human being is inherently good, and that's what I base my morallity upon.
 
I do not see how I can judge god, but I can judge christians I suppose. I do so not by any 'standard,' but rather by the concept that humans are inherently good. Sheesh, I've said this three times now. What do you not understand?
 
Do you believ ein Hell Mr Bill and if you do, what are your theories
biggrin.gif
 
No, I do not believe that there is an afterlife, no heaven and no hell. I believe that these concepts were fabricated to ease man's instinctual fear of death.
 
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