PapaToad
Active Member
Well put. I guess then we can aree we Disagree.[b said:
God Bless
Concerning Hell
- Thread starter Jango
- Start date
God Bless
Thaddius
Member
[b said:
I don't understand what your basis is for good. You say mankind is inherently good and moral. Your moral code is your own, but obviously it has some standart it is set against. What is that standard? Is it what laws are in effect today? What if that law changes tomorrow, would your own moral code change to be like the new law? We understand you think mankind is good, but you are dodging the question on what your moral basis for this assumption is.
Cory
TastyWheat
New Member
If anybody actually cares about learning something instead of just putting forth opinions all the time, check out C.S. Lewis' book Mere Christianity. He talks exactly about all this, and does a bang-up job for the Christian side.
Even if you don't agree with it, at least you can say you went the extra mile to see the other side's opinion.
Even if you don't agree with it, at least you can say you went the extra mile to see the other side's opinion.
I'm not dodging a question, you just never asked it. I believe that humans are born good, and that no matter how twisted they become in the evils of their environment, that fundamental goodness remains intact. Humans are beautiful creatures, in every sense of the word. How is this a basis for morallity? Well, for instance, if someone believes that man is good, it is thus immoral to hurt or discomfort him. Granted, this is a more complicated way to base a system of morals than being told what is and isn't 'right,' but in order to obtain truth you have to work from the bottom up.
I, to an extent, agree with you.[b said:
In the bible Jesus clearly looks on children with a sense of hope.
Adam and Eve were born as long living, healthy, and a 'good' people.
Jesus, I believe, had a very 'young' spirit. It was not seasoned and weathered in the ways of the world. He was, in the very essence, a child of God. He was pure and holy, and very naturally had a good nature.
We are a little bit more complicated than that, but I believe we can also have a good nature. If you don't believe me just look at little children of about 3-10 years of age or so. How many of these children can you see stealing, murdering, and lusting? I don't see any of them doing at least two of these things. Now, I'm not saying the children will always take the right path in life and will never steal or lie, but I do believe that as the older we get the more 'okay' it is to sin - this is what we have to be careful of.
You specifically said, "I believe that humans are born good, and that no matter how twisted they become in the evils of their environment, that fundamental goodness remains intact." I agree with you on this, but my belief has a twist to it. I believe myself to be a sinner, but at the same time I am a follower of Christ and as such I am told that I will go to heaven. In heaven my sinful nature will die, and I will no longer have human and sinful tendencies - I will be of a pure heart and sound mind without the temptations I was once baited with. My spirit will live on in heaven, but will be the purest example of who I am. I am to become a child, and in that a son of God.
CCGR
Member
I agree we are born good and have been programmed with some knowledge of right from wrong. But ultimately we're selfish beings.