Dark Souls

[Tek7]

So I got my Redbox promo code today and applied it toward renting Dark Souls for the day (until 9 p.m. Central tomorrow). I made it to the first boss and I already had to look up a solution online. -_-

I'm all for "difficult but rewarding," but this seems a tad silly. Yes, I now know you can skip the first boss, but that wasn't abundantly clear playing through on my own. Maybe I was in a rush, maybe I assume too much, or maybe playing too many twitch FPS games has skewed my "fight or flight" response too heavily toward "fight."

Either way, it's not the best first impression, but I've got another day to play it, so we'll see how it goes.

 

[Tek7]

Am I missing something, or is this game just not fun? Dark Souls has a score of 89 on Metacritic, so I keep expecting the game to start being fun any moment.

On a positive note, I'm glad I didn't buy Demon's Souls after all. I only paid a dollar to rent Dark Souls and I've found myself wishing Redbox had a refund policy.

 

[Keero]

You play a game like that if you love a challenge. You'll need to spend a lot of time, learn the level layouts, and be willing to not throw a controller due to the NES-style difficulty. Not a pick up and play game in the slightest. It's really niche, but it's a love/hate thing.

 

[Tek7]

You play a game like that if you love a challenge. You'll need to spend a lot of time, learn the level layouts, and be willing to not throw a controller due to the NES-style difficulty. Not a pick up and play game in the slightest. It's really niche, but it's a love/hate thing.

Well, it's no mystery where I stand. I hate it.

No save point or checkpoint before a boss is not "hardcore." It's bad game design.

No pause? No sale. I have a seven month old daughter. If it doesn't have a pause function, it gets kicked to the curb.

And you would think you'd be able to back up your save file for a game that delights in torturing players? Nope. Dark Souls save files are locked.

One wrong button press can mean doom. That's not an exaggeration: I was heading back to the site of my previous death to reclaim my souls (which function as the game's currency AND XP) when I went to rate up a player message and accidentally pressed the circle button, sending my player to his death on the rocks below.

I'm no stranger to "hardcore" or difficult games. I beat Mega Man 9 four days after it was released. I recently cleared Jamestown's fourth stage on Divine difficulty. I've cleared all levels (okay, the Light World) in the first 3 worlds of Super Meat Boy with an A+.

But there's a difference between difficult and bad design. Most of the things that make Dark Souls difficult are, simply put, bad design.

I would strongly recommend against buying or renting Dark Souls. If you really are a masochist, skip this game and put the money toward therapy. That's not some sort of "I'm s0 l33t" reverse psychology. Playing Dark Souls was one of the worst gaming experiences I've ever had (and I played Golden Axe long enough to unlock a trophy in Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection).

I defeated the Taurus demon and got past (or through, rather) the dragon's flame to drop the ladder near the Undead Burg bonfire, but I had to raise my blood pressure and waste hours of my life to do so. It wasn't worth it.

Some people may legitimately find this sort of game fun. But I'm not one of those people.

Now if you'll excuse me, I think I'll go take a pass at Jamestown's fifth level on Divine difficulty.

 

[Keero]

/obligatory 'y u mad tho?' comment

Good thing it was a rental, huh?

 

[Tek7]

/obligatory 'y u mad tho?' comment

I'm mad at myself for wasting hours of my life on that game.

Good thing it was a rental, huh?

Indeed. I would have been quite upset if I had bought Demon's Souls or Dark Souls, even on sale, then discovered there are no save points or checkpoints before bosses and the Dark Souls save file is locked. As it is, I wish I'd spent the dollar on renting Dead Island (since there's no PC demo nor any announced plans for a PC demo) instead.

 

[Kendrik]

Playing Dark Souls was one of the worst gaming experiences I've ever had.

Conversely, Demon's Souls is one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had. I quite adamantly disagree with the game suffering from bad design; I'll certainly agree that it's for a very specific niche and kind of gamer, but that doesn't make it bad design.

Don't like it? Don't play it. I don't understand why it seems so necessary to berate the game because it doesn't play by your rules and expectations.

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding does it really have no way to pause it or are you having to use a sub-screen to stop the action or what? If it's true there is no way to stop the action I'd use use the term "bad design" as well. I mean I don't know about the rest of you but I have to uh "powder my nose" at some point XD. Maybe they thought since there could be no pause in the multi-player they had to leave it out of an offline mode?

As far as calling it masochistic I could not say unless I played it. Generally speaking I do find really, really hard games un-fun because it usually turns out with me playing it the same way through the whole game. I mean when a game is too tough I end up...

1. Hording stuff (backtracking or farming more than sane amounts).
2. Edging (pulling creatures to their AI boundaries and exploiting other AI stupidity).
3. Kiting by using ranged as much as possible while fighting going backwards (because in most games ranged weapons are decidedly safer than melee, but I like melee of course :/ ).
4. Looking up stuff like boss patterns rather than wanting to die multiple times to simply observe (not practicing timing just observe) it's full pattern.
5. Rather than try new attacks for fun I put all my points into making a few attacks strongest. Experimenting often means weakening your character and in tough games I want to be as strong as possible. Of course this means I'm stuck fighting the same way all the way through.

Ok I may do some of that even if a game is not tough but I still don't like it XD.

IDK if Dark souls falls into those failings or not so I cannot make a fair judgement. Just saying it is possible to make a game so tough it's not fun anymore. Most games made nowadays are too easy though.

/goes to look up "let's play Dark Souls" on youtube...

 

[[toj.cc]phantom]

Its okay though, once Skyrim comes out everyone will forget about this silly silly game.

 

[Tek7]

Conversely, Demon's Souls is one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had. I quite adamantly disagree with the game suffering from bad design; I'll certainly agree that it's for a very specific niche and kind of gamer, but that doesn't make it bad design.

I agree that being a niche game doesn't necessarily equal bad design. Trust me, I know. I still love shmups and arena FPS games in 2011. I'm still holding out hope for a proper third entry in the Starflight series.

I also don't equate my not liking a game with bad design. I didn't care for Call of Duty 4, but I still recognize it's a well-designed game. It's just not what I enjoy.

What I maintain is bad design is:

• No save point or checkpoint before bosses
• No pause function
• Locked save file

One could say that severely limiting the number of save points or checkpoints in an open world game heightens the sense of excitement, but I disagree. If I made it all the way to the boss once, twice, three times and more, the only thing keeping me from getting there again is another 5-10 minutes of replaying the same level. It's not an issue of "Is the player good enough?" because the player has already proven that he or she is by reaching the boss.

I don't dispute that there are people who will enjoy Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. I'm just not one of them and I explained why. The flaws I pointed out would have been flaws in any other game and those 3 issues alone would keep me from purchasing any game, regardless of genre or popularity.

If you play it, enjoy it, and it doesn't disrupt your life and walk with God, then, certainly, enjoy it.

Don't like it? Don't play it. I don't understand why it seems so necessary to berate the game because it doesn't play by your rules and expectations.

There's a difference between "berating" and "pointing out things that you think others would want to be aware of before spending money to play the game." I shared my opinion, explained why I held that opinion, and don't think I was unfair in the process.

And normally, I'd drop the game, move on, and let the issue rest. My post was less about venting (though, yes, part of my post was venting) than it was warning people so they know what they're getting into. I don't see it as fundamentally different from informing people that Battlefield 3 won't run on Windows XP.

But with the Metacritic score so high and my experience playing the game so negative, I wanted to offer a contrasting opinion and inform people of the flaws (or, if you prefer, "design choices") that may frustrate them. If they choose to purchase the game regardless, then I bid them play it in good health.

In the interest of civility, I'll let the issue rest. I stated my opinions, pointed out what I felt were the weak points of the game, and returned it to Redbox. I won't be buying the game, but others are free to do what they will with their money.

And I'll still enjoy 3D Dot Game Heroes (also developed by From Software).

 

[Japesland]

Man, I disagree with your opinion on so many levels, but that's what it is: an opinion. Dark Souls was my favorite game of 2011 by far.

"What I maintain is bad design is:
No save point or checkpoint before bosses
No pause function
Locked save file"

This is where I do actually have to disagree on a deeper level.

-Demon's Souls didn't even have checkpoints at all, it was the beginning of the level or nothing at all. The point of not being able to just play a boss over and over by itself is to make the stakes that much higher while also forcing level memorization, probably one of the key aspects of the "Souls" games.

-As far as no pause function, I can see why it would frustrate you (and it frustrated me sometimes, too), but it is by no means a design flaw, simply a design choice. They didn't want you to be able to simply pause in the middle of a boss and look up how to beat it, etc, etc. It becomes a strategy in finding a place to rest, more of a privilege than a right, one might say. Also, due to the auto-saving system, you can just quit the game and it will save your progress and position exactly. Thus, if an emergency were to happen in real life, just quit. You lose nothing.

-If the saves weren't locked, people would abuse them to get around the auto-save system. Also, if you have Playstation Plus, you can still back up your save on your cloud storage.

Also, 3D Dot Game Heroes wasn't actually developed by From Software, it was published by From in Japan, and so the ties remained here in the west. However, the Armored Core series IS developed by From Software, and is quickly becoming one of my new favorites series. :3

Rant done.