DKP (Please read everyone) -guild tlak-

So far, the only reason a class set has been DE'd is because everybody already had the item. No class set has been DE'd because everybody passed on it regardless if they had it.

So far the loot distribution has been equatable and is working as intended. Lets not loose the big picture here Yokie, and to everybody else who is new to DKP and raiding.

The DKP system naturally rewards those who put in the upfront effort into learning an instance with first crack at most of the drops. But that is where it ends. Once you have your benediction, your are not going to take the eye again. Once you have your helm of wrath, you are not going to take it again. This is a natural incentive to get people out to do what it takes to learn a new instance. But not everybody likes the learning process and thats ok. And some people can't be there in the learning process because they were level 23 when we started. Thats ok too.

Those who come in later get their phat loot as well. They just don't normally get a chance at the first drops. They get the items that the team already have and have passed on, this is not degrading, you just weren't there for the first drop. Once the new persons DKP raises above another persons, they will have earned the opportunity at getting loot before those who have been there longer. Does this happen, you bet.

I looked at the DKP for the priests that show up for the raids, not including myself or Quantam (trust me, you are not competing with us for loot). That means I looked at:

Icthus: 140 Current DKP, 140 Earned DKP (7/8 prophecy)
Deamiter: 107 Current DKP, 307 Earned DKP (4/8 prophecy)
Thelon: 98 Current DKP, 248 Earned DKP (3/8 prophecy)
Yokie: 85 Current DKP, 85 Earned DKP (0/8 prophecy, just started raiding)
Laraptor: 83 Current DKP, 283 Earned DKP (4/8 prophecy)
Strongtower: 74 Current DKP, 174 Earned DKP (2/8 prophecy)
Mituba: 73 Current DKP, 253 Earned DKP (3/8 prophecy)
Alhana: 43 Current DKP, 293 Earned DKP (4/8 prophecy, 1 Arcanist piece for mage)

Just looking at your DKP Yokie, you are fourth amongst the priests. Of those above you, only Icthus needs the Prophecy boots, and none of them need the prophecy shoulders and only Thelon needs the gloves. So your are really in the think of things with the priests.

But I don't want you too just look at their current DKP, I included their earned DKP for a reason. Notice the pattern. Those who have earned over 275 DKP all have 4/8, those above 250 have 3/8 and those who have earned over 150 DKP have 2/8. Generally speaking, by the time you have earned 100 DKP you will have gotten a piece. And then every 50 DKP after that, you will have gotten another piece. If you follow the math, those at 300 DKP are next to get their 5th item, and that happens to be Deamiter. He is at 300 DKP and is next on the list to get a piece of prophecy. The system seems to be working. Once he gets that piece he will drop to 57, putting him below Mituba, which is expected, and that then puts Thelon into position to get his 4th piece as he approaches 275 DKP.

The only exceptions to this are myself, Ichtus and Quantam. Ichtus and myself came in geared to the teeth, so we really don't count in the stats and Quantam is only going for plus damage gear because he is our shadow priest (and only one allowed to do so I may add.)

I, and others, have personally put on hold our own progression in the end game to bring it to others (Goblit - Warlock, Melko - Mage, Fjorboug and Samuraij - Warriors, Icthus - Priest). We could have continued to run BWL with the Holicron Knights and have 8/8 T2 now and a chunk of AQ40 gear. Instead, We put that on hold so that the guild and friends could gear up in MC. Had we not done so, MC would not have happened. I believe our decision was the right decision and that decision will not come without personal rewards. In my mind, all we have done is postponed a sure thing so that others can reap rewards in the interim.

The idea of putting a roll into the equation negates the sacrifices other have made, and thats unfair to them, for what? I'll gaurantee you this, after raiding MC for a year now, if a new priest comes in and on the second kill of rag, the pants of trancendance drops and wins them over me because of a roll, I'll quit this game.
 
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Maybe this chart will help you see how priest loot is being distributed:

Code: 
Priest     |Belt|Boots|Wrist|Chest|Shoulders|Hands|Head|Legs| EDKP | CDKP |Items|

================================================================================|
Alhana     |    |  x  |  x  |     |         |  x  |    | x  |293.19| 43.19|  4  |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Asheron    |    |     |     |  x  |         |     |    |    |102.81| 52.81|  1  |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Avesther * |    |     |     |     |         |     |    |    |484.35|484.35|  0  |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Dandren    | x  |     |  x  |     |         |  x  |    |    |112.44|-37.56|  3  |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Deamiter   | x  |  x  |     |     |    x    |  x  |    |    |307.35|107.35|  4  |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Icthus *   |    |     |     |     |         |     |    |    |140.37|140.37|  0  |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Laraptor   | x  |     |  x  |     |         |  x  |    | x  |282.79| 82.79|  4  |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Mituba     |    |     |  x  |     |    x    |     |    | x  |252.53| 72.53|  4  |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Paster     |    |     |     |     |         |  x  |    |    |252.93| 79.93|  1  |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Quantam    |    |     |     |     |         |     |    |    |358.49|273.49|  0  |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Strongtower| x  |     |     |     |         |     | x  |    |173.97| 73.97|  2  |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Tars       |    |     |     |     |         |     |    |    | 66.11| 66.11|  0  |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Thelon     |    |  x  |  x  |     |    x    |     |    |    |240.94| 97.62|  3  |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Yokie      |    |     |     |     |         |     |    |    | 85.43| 85.43|  0  |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
* prior HK raiders
CDKP = Current DKP
EDKP = Total Earned DKP
 
I was one of those "hording up" for the uber leet drop:p I was trying to save up for viskag, honestly my blue pvp armor was on par with nightslayer as well so I was trying to save for a sword or two to get more DPS but was recently talked into rolling for my full set of NS instead. Then I got one of the swords I wanted anyway so everything worked out:) Like Avesther said I would be pretty bummed if I had raided over a month and something I wanted dropped and someone who came one time got it and we never saw them again. I'm pretty much there every raid and that commitment should be rewarded with maybe first crack at one piece or another. I was also one of the lucky ones to get an epic on my first run with redeemed, the night before I officially joined I got my bracers off the second mob we killed lol:) What im getting at there is that I wasnt the only one rolling for them, I just happened to have the highest dkp because everyone else had spent theres or already had the piece. We keep telling the new rogues not to get discouraged by some of our high DKP, there is plenty of drops that the regulars dont need and even ones we do need, all it takes is a few drops and those people ahead of you will be behind you in DKP when they each spend 50 on their next set piece.

Isnt it better to have the best geared players being the guys that are in the trenches with you week in and week out not relying on random rolls to hope your MT gets the best gear first, etc?
 
Elihu said:
Some people choose to "save up" DKP for the items they want most, and while I think some people have the right idea of trying to save their DKP to roll for the rarest drops when they do, I also think that they unintentionally hurt the raid in doing so by not being as geared as they could be for the next run. ...
Click to expand...

I agree and yet I disagree. I do not think that a person can hurt the raid by passing on an item inorder to save DKP to spend on another drop. Telassin has been saving his DKP for the Staff of Dominance for quite a while and only recently got it. He wasnt hurting the raid because other Mages needed those items. Where I would agree is if everyone in the raid was fairly well geared and the gear would default to the person saving their DKP. If that were to be the case, no one would take it and the item would be D/E-d. No DKP spent, the team gets no DKP. It only hurts the team if no one takes an item, not if someone passes who could use it.
 
The zero-sum dkp system is probably one of the best starting systems for casual guilds. Mainly cause it rewards those that have spent the time being there the most. Now if theres a core group of people in a certain class (that always show up) items will cycle through them evenly when a new piece drops since a 50 dkp margin takes about 3-4 runs to make up. The biggest drawback of this system is that unless there are restrictions set on cross class items such as rings/weapons/necks/trinket people at the top will get first shot. There's nothing stopping a hunter(since i play this class i'll pick on it) from getting staff of dominance or mageblade for that matter.

Another problem with MC/Bwl is loot, blizzards itemization system sucks. You can't blame the people at the top for having so much dkp, its either they're that geared or they've never had gear they want drop. Some might just be kind enough to pass on items for other class members if they feel the upgrade would better suit them. When you guys start getting bwl on farm you'll realize that no matter what system you go under there will be people who'll disagree and people who'll enjoy the system. It's upto each individual in the raid to make decisions on whether to take or pass to someone else that will make better use or will get a better upgrade.

THK uses a zero-sum bidding this allows for more casual gamers at the bottom of the dkp chart not to be intimidated cause on a bidding system you bid the dkp you want to spend on an item. Each item has a minimum dkp bid required. You can still bid on items if you don't have the dkp for it, but you cannot bid more than minimum. Person with the highest bid wins. This is the current system we use right now, and it works wonders, no one argues much about cross class loot because after an item is opened up to all classes who ever bids most wins. The drawback with this system is the loot distributor's life becomes a pain.

Edit: Our bidding rules are pretty strict, we allow no joke bids, you bid and you win, you pay, you can't change your mind after you win to say no you don't want the item. If you bid more dkp than you have you will be warned and put on cooldown from raiding, repeat it again and its a gkick.
 
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DKP must stay. It is the only fair way. If someone has alot of DKP it means they have played and raided alot with NO LOOT. Someone who has came less to raids and gets to roll on = terms with someone who has for instance lets say Avesther for example with full Tier I and partial Tier II and raids and leads and never misses a raid therefore gets lots and lots of DKP cuz he never gets anything should get the first 8 loots or whatever it would be that we get when we start BWL. It rewards dedication and sticking through watching everyone else catch up to him. People who sacrifice getting drops to save for such and such is their priority. The only time I would disagree with someone hording DKP points is when the watch items get DE'd that they could obviously use because lets say they want a Mageblade and are worried they wont be the one to get it if they spend DKP. This should never happen and I dont believe that we have had a problem with this at all. I would say there is no issue. Only thing I agree on is minimum 3 raids before you are eligible to get anything unless everyone pass's. Just IMHO.
 
the 3 raids thing is a decent idea but I think the biggest advantage to giving 50 to anyone their first run and letting them roll is you are more likely to get people to come help fill spots once and then they are gonna go with other groups, etc. If theres no chance for them to get any loot it might be harder to get help once in awhile. Plus some people like me that do get an epic their very first run definately get hooked and will keep coming back for more:)

on the zero sum bidding idea I dont see how that is less intimidating for the people wioth less DKP, they still have less to work with and if the high dkp guys have been saving for something they really want they will be willing to bid higher anyway to get it when it does drop.
 
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