Domo

[lanki]

So I finally got some time this week to step into a Redeemed run. The one thing that I noticed most was the tanks were taunting ALOT. At first I thought this was a tanking problem, however it turns out that it's not a tanking problem, its a dps problem when I did some tanking for domo's adds.

The dps NEEDS to know when to dig lightly and when to dig in hard. I saw hunters and rogues pulling a lot of agro all through the trash mobs and on Domo's adds, these classes have agro reduction skills, FD wipes agro completely, and feint reduces your threat hence dropping the agro you have collected, rogues also have vanish which completely resets agro. If a mob isn't being tanked, then people need to STOP DPS COMPLETELY on it (not do light dps), till the go ahead is given.

It's either the dps learning when to dig in while you're in MC or wiping on vael for ages while people learn how to dps w/o pulling agro since warriors can't taunt vael. The 20 man raid bosses (Hakkar, Ossirian) are immune to taunt too. I personally don't like to use taunt because its poor tanking to keep using taunt as a method of holding agro. Taunt's designed to pull agro off someone incase anything goes wrong, it shouldn't be the primary thing a warrior needs to spam to hold a mob.

The problem with domo right now is you're loosing healers/dps way too fast because of dps pulling agro, healers heal the people that pulled agro, tank taunts, tank dies, dps dies, healers die. Sometimes the healers get healing agro so they die if the dps decides to lower their agro. If you give the tank 10 seconds to build agro, then all healers are on the tank, no one elese needs to taunt, no one else needs heals, no one dies except domo's adds.

The only other thing I can add to the current strat is instead of using two warriors on domo, use a hunter distracting since the hunter tank pull domo from anywhere.

 

[Yucke]

I agree with the rogue and hunter DPS. In most cases, I don't think they're "digging" in too early although the occasional ambush/aimedshot crit will pull aggro. I think they're not using their aggro reduction abilities enough.

I understand that hunters' semi-spammable hate reduction ability is usable only in melee range but they have FD! From what I've read on the hunter forums, in 40 man raids, they should be using it every time the cooldown is up. From my understanding, FD wipes all aggro...yes, it can be resisted but your auto shot is toggle-able

Rogues aren't feinting often enough. In aggro sensitive fights, it should be spammed everytime its cooldown is up. It can be dodged, parried, blocked etc- which makes little sense however, in the event that it failed, your next finisher doesn't have to be eviscerate- rupture and SnD generate little aggro and in the next patch, EA will stack with sunders also, maybe holding back on the backstab/SS another tick is smart after critting x times in a row.

Vanish, like FD wipes all aggro however, unlike FD, it's on a 5 min cooldown so I think most rogues would like to save it in the event that their tank dies.

 

[Avesther]

The only other thing I can add to the current strat is instead of using two warriors on domo, use a hunter distracting since the hunter tank pull domo from anywhere.

For some reason, the hunters distract were not working at all when we were doing that. I think specifically, Domo hates us. Do you think next time you could help distract with Anadi? I know you have experience with it

 

[Where]

if thats what happened today thats one thing, all the times ive tried domo it seems our tanks have always died too soon and we get 3 rogues standing around a sheep waiting for a warrior to come tank it that never comes heh. Sheep breaks and cleans house on the mage that sheeped him and all healers while rogues run around behind him trying to do something still waiting for that tank as for trash mobs and such why do rogues and hunters always get singled out, the last 2 weeks ive seen warlocks pull aggro more than any rogue and almost as much as the hunters I dont know why that happens when there is usually 5 dots on a mob before a sunder goes up

 

[lanki]

Yup, almost everyone in the dps needs to hold their adrenaline rush and WAIT for a tank to break the sheeps and call for dps in. I only singled out rogues and hunters cause they should never be pulling agro at anytime. If other classes pull agro then they need to lay back as well, and yeah, I've seen mages, warlocks pull agro too. I only broke one sheep through all of the fights, rest of the time I was just running after the mob and taunting it when ever my cooldown was up. Now that's dps digging in early, I had even spammed dps off for a while but people were just not paying attention. I should fraps the fight next time so people see my pov during the fight. If you're waiting 10-15 seconds than your doing the right thing.

Why does a tank die too soon? Simple, which ever dps has agro on the add is getting healed, when a tank taunts it, healers don't have enough time to react and bam the tank dies. Why is it taking a tank longer to get to the sheep? Because people break random sheeps, mark wrong stuff, the tank is running around chasing mobs that still needs to be killed, and most common one is trying to find the right sheep to break. For the next time you guys do domo perhaps leave the killing order to whatever the tank decides to build agro upon, this way people don't know what to hit until the tank calls it out, as opposed to someone breaking the sheep and then calling for a tank on it. Everyone needs to step back a little and realize this isn't AV, or Scholo where zerg dps will lead to sure victory.

Edit: Sry Avesther can't come on Anadi since there are very few hunters that go to MC with HK on a regular basis atm.

 

[Dukatt]

Every single MC I have attended I have seen the same thing, rogues and hunters pulling aggro. This is not an attack on rogues or hunters in general as some actually know how to do their jobs. Most don't seem to get the team mentality and are more concerned with the damage meter and their fat loots. This attitude is killing us.

I as my hunter (Dukatt 60) know how to feign death and when to use an aimed shot. You should NEVER open up with aimed shot, if the hate meter is unbalanced you aimed shot will mark you quicker than anything any other class can do outside of tanks. Controlled amounts of DPS until that mob is about 25% down is crucial. At that point you can attack at your leisure while using FD to clear your hate.

Rogues you don't need to open up with ambush and backstab every fight. White damage is your friend and again when aggro is on that tank firmly then hit it and hit it hard. Bring a ton of flashpowder with you, when you see that the aggro is firm and you are ready to unleash the pain...vanish and go off with your ambush, backstab /whatever else you want combo.

Locks, shadow priests, mages....stop going in to early! Seriously guys..mindflay, dots, icebolts, scorch need to stop happening until called for. Balanced aggro, let the tank do his/her job! Sunders are key...wait! Even at our fastest we are in MC for a few hours, 20 seconds additional per mob to establish hate is worth it! Why you might ask? Because 20 seconds waiting on hate is less time than getting our dead back, buffed and ready to go.

Please abandon the damage meters. They have a purpose to the class and raid leader but server no purpose to the party members. What does it matter if you are in the top 10? I am almost always in the top 10 as a mage, does it matter? Did I get more loot, additional DKP? Nope. And you know what is really interesting? I never stole hate during the friday raid but I was number 8 or 9 all night. Learn to manage your DPS vs. Hate and you will truely pwn.

 

[Yucke]

if thats what happened today thats one thing, all the times ive tried domo it seems our tanks have always died too soon and we get 3 rogues standing around a sheep waiting for a warrior to come tank it that never comes heh. Sheep breaks and cleans house on the mage that sheeped him and all healers while rogues run around behind him trying to do something still waiting for that tank as for trash mobs and such why do rogues and hunters always get singled out, the last 2 weeks ive seen warlocks pull aggro more than any rogue and almost as much as the hunters I dont know why that happens when there is usually 5 dots on a mob before a sunder goes up

Dots don't generate "burst" aggro. They build up aggro over time as a tank does so don't be mad at warlocks about their dots. It's the shadowbolts that pull aggro. On trash, rogues and hunters get singled out becase they should NEVER pull aggro because they have 2 aggro reduction abilities. How many do warlocks have? Mages? Warriors? Hmm, 0?

...Rogues you don't need to open up with ambush and backstab every fight. White damage is your friend and again when aggro is on that tank firmly then hit it and hit it hard. Bring a ton of flashpowder with you, when you see that the aggro is firm and you are ready to unleash the pain...vanish and go off with your ambush, backstab /whatever else you want combo.

Locks, shadow priests, mages....stop going in to early! Seriously guys..mindflay, dots, icebolts, scorch need to stop happening until called for. Balanced aggro, let the tank do his/her job! Sunders are key...wait! Even at our fastest we are in MC for a few hours, 20 seconds additional per mob to establish hate is worth it! Why you might ask? Because 20 seconds waiting on hate is less time than getting our dead back, buffed and ready to go.

Please abandon the damage meters. They have a purpose to the class and raid leader but server no purpose to the party members. What does it matter if you are in the top 10? I am almost always in the top 10 as a mage, does it matter? Did I get more loot, additional DKP? Nope. And you know what is really interesting? I never stole hate during the friday raid but I was number 8 or 9 all night. Learn to manage your DPS vs. Hate and you will truely pwn.

Vanish is on a 5 min cooldown and most rogues want to save it for dire situations.

Locks, SP(s)- Quantum! =D, mages- The dots are fine. They don't produce a ton of hate. It's the shadow bolts/frostbolts/fireballs/mindblasts they need to hold back on. 20 seconds additional is a bit too much. Just need to manage aggro better- after getting 3 crits in a row, maybe a combusted pyro isn't the best thing to cast next.

I have mixed feelings about the damage meters. Yes, they do create competition and possible pulling aggro off the MT but for those who respecc'd or is trying out a spec, the meters are a place to evaluate your spec/gear.


KTM Threat Meter helps a lot...sometimes. I think it'd be more accurate if more people got the mod.

 

[lanki]

Honestly, dmg meters are just for personal use. If I was a raid leader I would just kick anyone out for posting a dmg meter every 5 seconds or bragging about their dps, it's annoying and its rude. It also leads to people digging in early. Like I mentioned before, I never had agro at anytime during the fights, people just nuked their way through adds.

In a good Domo fight no one should die, or pull agro except tanks and mages that are on sheep duty, with the possibilty of hunter thats on distract duty for Domo. Theres a big difference when a tank has agro and somene pulls it off, and another when the tank doesn't have any hate on it. You can't depend on taunt to work all the time because it gets resisted a lot.

I know people want to get Domo on farm status but from just being there yesterday it seems that people cant follow simple instructions of letting a tank get it before digging in. You need to treat each mob as Onyxia phase 1 light dps till 80% then nuke. I know warlock/mage/priest dots dont generate that much hate, but warriors can't either if they're chasing the mob. Let the tanks call in for dps cause right now as it stands the adds 1-5 of domo don't have any tanks, its just being dpsed down.

Edit: Get used to vanish being used to reduce agro because on Vael thats what you'll be using it for. Vanish should be used every 5 minutes, if you're jsut saving it for a dire situation then you're not making the best out of that skill. Basicall blow as many cooldowns as you can when dps is called in for. I usually use my 2-3 mins cooldown at the start of the fight and they come back up through the fight and I can use it again.

 

[Where]

well if dots dont cause a lot of agro and its all shadow bolts than same thing. All I know is during one of the MCs last week I saw at least 3 warlock DOTs every time before a sunder and before the end of the fight I almost always saw a warlock pop up in my target's target box and during that same run I didnt see any rogues pop up in that box and only once or twice did a hunter pop up. I do give beriale credit he is always in the top 10 in damage and I dont think ive ever seen him pull aggro, ive also seen caitlyn outdps everyone almost 2 to 1 and only pull aggro when his feint was parryed, etc. Only thing ive ever pulled aggro on was a lava spawn hehe. What ive seen though was a warlock pulling aggro 3-5 times as often as any rogue or hunter yet warlocks get no mention when it comes to pulling aggro off the tank. Was also a DPS warrior pulling aggro almost everytime, guess if hes a warrior he can handle it though?

As for the domo fight I wasnt there saturday but the times before I mentioned the rogues were standing around waiting for a tank to get on the mob that the RAID leader had called out and none of us broke the sheep, it was either a normal timeout break or a caster hit it. I like the suggestion of the tank picking it, maybe we could fight the adds like the last fight before domo, where we set up a kill box away from the other adds and DPS stays put and the tank pulls the right add into the box. That would help eliminate the chaos of running around looking for the mark and it would give the tank time to build his hate and secure the mob.

 

[lanki]

If you're not designated to tank you shouldn't ever be hit on. Maybe do the fight unarmed and wanding cause I can gaurantee you that you're gonna run into the same problem next week if the dps group starts to dig in early.

Edit: Btw for the rogues that were standing and waiting. This is what I suggest, there are 3 other elites up that tanks are on, you can go and dps on them (till they are at 30% hp) after the first add is killed. This will give the rogues something to do if they don't like to wait around. I believe this is what some of the HK rogues do if they don't like to move around. Pick one of the tanked adds and dps to 30% cause you need them alive after 4 adds are killed after which you can kill them.

 

[Yucke]

Edit: Get used to vanish being used to reduce agro because on Vael thats what you'll be using it for. Vanish should be used every 5 minutes, if you're jsut saving it for a dire situation then you're not making the best out of that skill. Basicall blow as many cooldowns as you can when dps is called in for. I usually use my 2-3 mins cooldown at the start of the fight and they come back up through the fight and I can use it again.

Well this isn't Vael and the Vael fight would be considered by most rogues, a "dire" situation where one uses vanish. Blowing Vanish on MC trash and some of the bosses is a waste.