Jim
New Member
[b said:
Any proof of that?
And why make exceptions to religions when they are choices?
Gay Role Models
- Thread starter Mr.Bill
- Start date
Any proof of that?
And why make exceptions to religions when they are choices?
I do not tolerate other religious groups. I do not clash with other religious groups. I see a religious group as a cult. I don't believe Christianity is just another religious group. We are a force, we are a body. We are the brethren. I don't know of anyone here who will tolerate a Jehovah's witness, who will bar themselves up in your house and someone who would mince words.
God is God, He is All. Homosexuals are what they want to be. They seek pleasure in their lifestyle, however their lifestyle is for themselves. Therefore they have no say in that matter, and are in turn not legitimate. They made the single choice to turn their backs on God, cause clearly Homosexuality is an ABOMINATION to God. It says so in the text. They serve themselves, we serve the Almighty. They made that personal choice, which will in end consume them and destroy them as they corrupt themselves more. Especially now that a media circus has taken hand over things, they will be put in the spotlight as they deteriorate.
Thats how I stand on the issue. It's a personal choice you make. I live by a standard, you either are with Jesus or you're against Him. They, in my opinion, are against Him by their choices.
God is God, He is All. Homosexuals are what they want to be. They seek pleasure in their lifestyle, however their lifestyle is for themselves. Therefore they have no say in that matter, and are in turn not legitimate. They made the single choice to turn their backs on God, cause clearly Homosexuality is an ABOMINATION to God. It says so in the text. They serve themselves, we serve the Almighty. They made that personal choice, which will in end consume them and destroy them as they corrupt themselves more. Especially now that a media circus has taken hand over things, they will be put in the spotlight as they deteriorate.
Thats how I stand on the issue. It's a personal choice you make. I live by a standard, you either are with Jesus or you're against Him. They, in my opinion, are against Him by their choices.
Jim
New Member
I'm not questioning your the strength of your faith, nor am I questioning the validity of your opinions. I'm asking a simple question:
What evidence have you seen that proves beyond doubt homosexuals are the subject of choice?
What evidence have you seen that proves beyond doubt homosexuals are the subject of choice?
Genesis1315
Ladies
What evidence is there to proove that it is not a choice?
B-man
New Member
Werent we not tought to love everyone?.......Doesnt God love everyone? Did Jesus not teach the word to everyone even to those who did not care to hear it?
Just because someone is of a different faith or sexual orientation we arnt supposed look down upon them as scum. Sure we dont believe in what they do, But that doesnt mean we should show them disrespect or not be tolerant to their beliefs. Are we not called out to show Gods love for humanity? How are we showing Gods love by looking down upon certain groups of people?
Just because someone is of a different faith or sexual orientation we arnt supposed look down upon them as scum. Sure we dont believe in what they do, But that doesnt mean we should show them disrespect or not be tolerant to their beliefs. Are we not called out to show Gods love for humanity? How are we showing Gods love by looking down upon certain groups of people?
![[toj.cc]phantom](/forums/data/avatars/m/1/1132.jpg?1442680067){kind=avatar}
[toj.cc]phantom
Tribe of Judah Membership Administrator
[b said:
I was just about to say that Gen. Tim I have a question for you. If it isn't a choice then how do people who have been homosexual there whole life decide not to be homosexual any more. On the flipside of that how do people who have been straight there whole life change to a homosexual? In the bible, the book of Exodus or Leviticus, God tells MOSES (a man) that you shall not bed with a man as you do a women. That right there is good enoguh reason for me to not agree with the homosexuals. Lastly everyone si talkin about being tolorent, you don't have to be tolorent of the sin but the people that do sin. In the bible it says to hate the sin and love the person. I just thought I'd give my 2 cents on this.
[b said:
I saw this on the main ToJ page and thought I shoudl post it too.
Genesis1315
Ladies
[b said:
I think that sums it up. There is a difference between loving our enemy and tolerating our enemy. Here is another example. Someone comes into my house who uses profanity. We do not use such language here. Do I continue to tolerate such language? No. That does not mean that I will hate the person using profanity though.
Jim
New Member
First of all, phantom, the name's Jim, not Tim
Second, Gen, it is quite rude to answer a question with a question, but since I am a minority opinion here, I will oblige and expect similar favor when it comes your turn.
Also, to make a point abundandlty clear, no I'm am not of the opinion gender preference is a result of biological factors alone.
Let me make clear the distinction I place: The black and white view that it is either choice or genetic is foolish.On one side you have those wishing to demonize homosexuals by stating their 'perversion' is choice alone. It is easier to hate someone who chooses to be in a state you disapprove of, no?
On the other hand, it fools no-one when proponents of Gay Liberties say it is entirely genetic. It smacks of washing one's hands of responsibility and in a way, strikes me as some kind of cowardice.
To pick up phantoms' point, yes there are gay people who claim they were deconverted, whatever that means.
Let us look at this logically: Of the homosexual population, somewhere in the millions, let us say X thousand of them decide to renounce their homosexuality.
It is virtually impossible for every one of these people to have experienced and 'kicked' the habit of homosexuality the same way. In fact some still have homosexual urges.
How many of those out of this group do you believe changed due to social/peer/family pressure? How many had been influenced through outside means to believe that they 'needed' to change?
Conversely, to turn the argument around, what about those who remain gay, and testify that they never actually chose? It would again be foolish to assume every one of them were liars. Just as it is to assume the aformentioned converts were all coerced in some manner, or were not genuine.
American Psychological Association
Once again, I want to stress I am not of the opinion gay people are that way simply because their genes make them that way, anymore than I beleive criminals are so because they inherited 'criminal genes'.
Second, Gen, it is quite rude to answer a question with a question, but since I am a minority opinion here, I will oblige and expect similar favor when it comes your turn.
Also, to make a point abundandlty clear, no I'm am not of the opinion gender preference is a result of biological factors alone.
Let me make clear the distinction I place: The black and white view that it is either choice or genetic is foolish.On one side you have those wishing to demonize homosexuals by stating their 'perversion' is choice alone. It is easier to hate someone who chooses to be in a state you disapprove of, no?
On the other hand, it fools no-one when proponents of Gay Liberties say it is entirely genetic. It smacks of washing one's hands of responsibility and in a way, strikes me as some kind of cowardice.
To pick up phantoms' point, yes there are gay people who claim they were deconverted, whatever that means.
Let us look at this logically: Of the homosexual population, somewhere in the millions, let us say X thousand of them decide to renounce their homosexuality.
It is virtually impossible for every one of these people to have experienced and 'kicked' the habit of homosexuality the same way. In fact some still have homosexual urges.
How many of those out of this group do you believe changed due to social/peer/family pressure? How many had been influenced through outside means to believe that they 'needed' to change?
Conversely, to turn the argument around, what about those who remain gay, and testify that they never actually chose? It would again be foolish to assume every one of them were liars. Just as it is to assume the aformentioned converts were all coerced in some manner, or were not genuine.
American Psychological Association
Once again, I want to stress I am not of the opinion gay people are that way simply because their genes make them that way, anymore than I beleive criminals are so because they inherited 'criminal genes'.
Well there's lots of evidence to support both sides of the arguement, both that sexual orientation is derived from nature or from the environment. However it is foolhardy to assume that it is entirely one or the other; the issue is clearly far, far too complicated to be summed up so simply. Allow me to give you some of what I know on the topic:
Evidence for nature:
- homosexuals have been found to have slightly different brain structures and brainwave patterns
- homosexuality has been found to run in families (in a fairly limited sense though)
- homosexuals generally report of having 'unusual' childhoods, prefering those habits that are traditionally associated with the opposite sex
- despite sociocultural dislike and even, in some cases, hatred, homosexuality has continued to exist throughout all of human history at relatively constant frequency
- 'Twin study' on homosexuals revealed that two identical twins were both homosexual 50% of the time, two fraternal twins were both homosexual 25% of the time, and two siblings 10% of the time. (Think about that. Also, note that homosexuals make up approximately 3.33% of the world popularion)
- homosexuality and bisexuality has been found in many species of animals (this point is commonly contested however)
Evidence for environment:
- homosexual relationships are not pro-creational, so genetic material of homosexual men and women is difficult to pass on to the next generation
- there have been many reported cases of homosexuals who were 'cured' and chose to become heterosexual (it should be noted, though, that in these cases the people are often not 'truely' homosexuals as defined by the nature arguement; rather, are more often people who suffered some sort of trauma in childhood and made the drastic, delusional decision, be it concious or subconcious, to become a homosexual)
- identical twin homosexuals, who are genetically identical, are not always both homosexual
- the Bible implies that homosexuality is a choice, as do most major religions
That's all that comes to my mind at the moment... In any case, it is pretty clear to me that it's not one or the other; Homosexuality is caused by a combination of both natural and environmental causes. There are probably cases where the causation is entirely on one side, but these are rare.
We are going to get off topic though, so let me go back for a sec and finish the intended topic. The point is that homosexuals should not be discriminated, for that is part of the message of the video in question. Do you believe that they should be discriminated? If not, how do you suggest we stop that from happening?
Evidence for nature:
- homosexuals have been found to have slightly different brain structures and brainwave patterns
- homosexuality has been found to run in families (in a fairly limited sense though)
- homosexuals generally report of having 'unusual' childhoods, prefering those habits that are traditionally associated with the opposite sex
- despite sociocultural dislike and even, in some cases, hatred, homosexuality has continued to exist throughout all of human history at relatively constant frequency
- 'Twin study' on homosexuals revealed that two identical twins were both homosexual 50% of the time, two fraternal twins were both homosexual 25% of the time, and two siblings 10% of the time. (Think about that. Also, note that homosexuals make up approximately 3.33% of the world popularion)
- homosexuality and bisexuality has been found in many species of animals (this point is commonly contested however)
Evidence for environment:
- homosexual relationships are not pro-creational, so genetic material of homosexual men and women is difficult to pass on to the next generation
- there have been many reported cases of homosexuals who were 'cured' and chose to become heterosexual (it should be noted, though, that in these cases the people are often not 'truely' homosexuals as defined by the nature arguement; rather, are more often people who suffered some sort of trauma in childhood and made the drastic, delusional decision, be it concious or subconcious, to become a homosexual)
- identical twin homosexuals, who are genetically identical, are not always both homosexual
- the Bible implies that homosexuality is a choice, as do most major religions
That's all that comes to my mind at the moment... In any case, it is pretty clear to me that it's not one or the other; Homosexuality is caused by a combination of both natural and environmental causes. There are probably cases where the causation is entirely on one side, but these are rare.
We are going to get off topic though, so let me go back for a sec and finish the intended topic. The point is that homosexuals should not be discriminated, for that is part of the message of the video in question. Do you believe that they should be discriminated? If not, how do you suggest we stop that from happening?
The Invincible Man
New Member
Was it just me or did Sponge Bob actually have a very small role in that video?
I am going to assume that you are talking about the evidence for nature. It's no further than a google search away. I'll give you some links, but there's plenty more if you want to do some more research on your own.
Here it discusses Simon Levay's discovery that homosexuals have significantly larger portions of their hypothalamus than heterosexuals.
Here it outlines the significance of twin studies on the issue of homosexuality.
This deals with childhood tendencies of homosexual men:
Taken from here
Here it discusses Simon Levay's discovery that homosexuals have significantly larger portions of their hypothalamus than heterosexuals.
Here it outlines the significance of twin studies on the issue of homosexuality.
This deals with childhood tendencies of homosexual men:
[b said:
Taken from here
When I think of homosexuality I think of it as a choice. That is why it has to be respected by individuals today in the politically correct arena. Being as it is a "lifestyle" something the person lives by, choosing to live by and like members of the opposite sex that was not "natural" according to God's Word.
What evidence do I have that it is a personal choice? You are born a man. Woman was made for Man. Life is made when men and woman join flesh. Therefore, I conclude that it is unnatural and therefore a personal choice or "liberty" is a fair word since you have used it enough.
It's all about opinion here. Still I find it funny you still ask for evidence when the Bible clearly says that it is an ABOMINATION. Look up the word Abomination. That is clearly evident enough.
What evidence do I have that it is a personal choice? You are born a man. Woman was made for Man. Life is made when men and woman join flesh. Therefore, I conclude that it is unnatural and therefore a personal choice or "liberty" is a fair word since you have used it enough.
It's all about opinion here. Still I find it funny you still ask for evidence when the Bible clearly says that it is an ABOMINATION. Look up the word Abomination. That is clearly evident enough.
Genesis1315
Ladies
off topic
While directly answering a question may be the prefered route, please consider that a direct answer may not be provided without additional clarification.
Gen
[b said:
While directly answering a question may be the prefered route, please consider that a direct answer may not be provided without additional clarification.
Gen
Gandhi
New Member
[b said:
Since I'm in canada could u explain to me what pledge. Since the majority of americans are christian I think, I think there's alot of tolerance. But unless your in a private school I don't think god should have a part in the public school system but thats a whole other topic.
oh nm just saw it in hescomin post
[b said:
I dont see anything wrong with this pledge, I think we need more tolerance, and respect towards others wether u agree with their lifestyle or not.
The pledge does not promote homosexuality it promotes tollerance. I work with a guy that just beat a murder charge for beating up a gay guy, look up stanley park gay bashing.
I am at home.[b said:
[b said:
First of I said "I think I heard it", I wasn't sure. And I asked a friend and they did say it on the news. Also I don't watch american news stations except for CNN, I heard it on cityTV.
off topic is the bible really that clear on anything.[b said:
Homosexuality is an abomination. Homosexuals are individuals for which Jesus died, and they are on that account made just as valuable as you are in the mind of God.[b said:
That is why we must love and respect and tolerate homosexuals while despising and loathing homosexuality as the abomination that it is. That is why I will respect a homosexual but I will not respect his choice to be a homosexual. That is why I see nothing wrong with the pledge or the campaign, which deals strictly with respect for other people, not with the decisions of those people.
Oh I am not refuting that. But nothing says that you cannot disagree with an individual on the way they live there life(ie: being a homosexual) and not love them. For all I know is that it is clearly wrong. And Homosexuality was one of the reasons Sodom/Gomorrah(sp?) was destroyed, and it kills and it corrupts. Just as any sin would.
And I know it is my duty, as a christian, to warn those who defend the subject, and to warn those of what they do in acts of homosexuality, that it is against God, and that it is a sin, and they are doing no good for themselves. My proof is in Ezekial 33:7-9. Look it up, it clearly places it on our plate to take a stand against and to help. AND me going that further limit to reach to those who are sinning is a sign of love, because if I didn't love them, I wouldn't care enough to try and reason with them, or even post here in this topic.
God Bless.
And I know it is my duty, as a christian, to warn those who defend the subject, and to warn those of what they do in acts of homosexuality, that it is against God, and that it is a sin, and they are doing no good for themselves. My proof is in Ezekial 33:7-9. Look it up, it clearly places it on our plate to take a stand against and to help. AND me going that further limit to reach to those who are sinning is a sign of love, because if I didn't love them, I wouldn't care enough to try and reason with them, or even post here in this topic.
God Bless.
rizz
New Member
i agree with HCS... quick take a photo 
Yes homosexuality is chosen..
Avesther
New Member
How exactly are gay people being discriminated against?
Forms of discrimination happens all the time:
I don't hire people who are not qualified for a job opening...I suppose I could be seen as discriminating against the unqualified, unskilled and under educated people.
I don't buy my gas at Petro-Canada stations. I suppose I could be seen as discrimiting against a symbol of Eastern Canadian tactics to rape and pillage Alberta natural resources.
I never vote for the Liberal party, regadless of the person who is the Liberal party Candidiate in my area. I suppose I am discriminating against the Liberal party of Canada.
So, really, how are they being discriminated against?
--edit--
Just thinking of Canada, because I am Canadian and I am somewhat ignorant about American policies:
Homosexuals are:
Hired to, fired from, layed off from employement just like everybody else.
They run for office.
They are free to associate
They are free from prosecution,
They can own property,
They can vote,
I can't think of anyway they are being discriminated against.
Unless, you mean they want to be called "married." Well, sorry, being called married is reserved for those who are committed to a 1 male and 1 female relationship. Thats the condition of marriage. There are all kinds of things that are defined by such reservations. I can not call myself part of the Canadian military unless I subject myself and complete basic training. Just because I know how to use a plethora of weapons doesn't make me part of the Canadian Military. Just because you love somebody, doesn't mean you are married, or can get married.
Marriage is a covenant between 1 man and 1 women. If you want to call yourself married and you are male, then your partner must be female. Otherwise, you have something other then marriage.
Forms of discrimination happens all the time:
I don't hire people who are not qualified for a job opening...I suppose I could be seen as discriminating against the unqualified, unskilled and under educated people.
I don't buy my gas at Petro-Canada stations. I suppose I could be seen as discrimiting against a symbol of Eastern Canadian tactics to rape and pillage Alberta natural resources.
I never vote for the Liberal party, regadless of the person who is the Liberal party Candidiate in my area. I suppose I am discriminating against the Liberal party of Canada.
So, really, how are they being discriminated against?
--edit--
Just thinking of Canada, because I am Canadian and I am somewhat ignorant about American policies:
Homosexuals are:
Hired to, fired from, layed off from employement just like everybody else.
They run for office.
They are free to associate
They are free from prosecution,
They can own property,
They can vote,
I can't think of anyway they are being discriminated against.
Unless, you mean they want to be called "married." Well, sorry, being called married is reserved for those who are committed to a 1 male and 1 female relationship. Thats the condition of marriage. There are all kinds of things that are defined by such reservations. I can not call myself part of the Canadian military unless I subject myself and complete basic training. Just because I know how to use a plethora of weapons doesn't make me part of the Canadian Military. Just because you love somebody, doesn't mean you are married, or can get married.
Marriage is a covenant between 1 man and 1 women. If you want to call yourself married and you are male, then your partner must be female. Otherwise, you have something other then marriage.