Is Suicide The Ultimate Sin?

Suicide? can you be forgiven for it?

  • No! if you cannot ask to be forgiven, you wont be

    Votes: 2 8.7%

  • Yes, Jesus paid for all sins before they were committed

    Votes: 16 69.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 5 21.7%
  • Total voters
    23
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The thing is tho, when it all ends, none of it will matter, all that matters is if you knew Christ and love him. Regardless weather you believe in predestination or choise, it all amounts to the same thing, Eternity with Christ! And what more could we ask for? (Grammer freeks, forgive me for putting a subordinate clause by it's self, i know it is a fragment. However, if you considered Eternity with Christ an interjection... Anyway, i hate Grammer so figure it out yourself :p)
 
mist_01 said:
(Grammer freeks, forgive me for putting a subordinate clause by it's self, i know it is a fragment. However, if you considered Eternity with Christ an interjection... Anyway, i hate Grammer so figure it out yourself :p)
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at least you know what you did...
 
lol, ive always been good at grammer, but i hate it because i have never seen the point in learning it. So what if i know it is an appositive clause, if i can use it correctly i can call it a verb and you would never know the difference when you read it. (still can't spell tho)
 
mist_01 said:
However, i believe we did have a choice, but we chose to listen to Satan and eat the forbidden fruit. Therefore our race chose hell over Christ. However, by his grace God has saved some of from the fate we Chose for ourselves with adam.
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But why wouldn't He save everyone?
 
ChickenSoup said:
But why wouldn't He save everyone?
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Because some people inherently don't want to be saved.

For some folks, the thought of bowing down and worshipping anything or anyone would be the worst torture imaginable. God allows those who are this way to choose to be absent from His presence-- this is the most loving, compassionate thing He can do for those who reject Him. As to whether the flames are literal or figurative, that's up for debate, but it would be awful to have to spend eternity somewhere where you are forced to worship someone you don't believe in or don't want to.
 
[toj.cc]WildBillKickoff;212486 said:
Because some people inherently don't want to be saved.

For some folks, the thought of bowing down and worshipping anything or anyone would be the worst torture imaginable. God allows those who are this way to choose to be absent from His presence-- this is the most loving, compassionate thing He can do for those who reject Him. As to whether the flames are literal or figurative, that's up for debate, but it would be awful to have to spend eternity somewhere where you are forced to worship someone you don't believe in or don't want to.
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i would disagree. i think we all inherently don't want to be saved. Nor do i believe that God's election is based on what we do, or what he knows we will do. "for it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God. not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
I do not believe that God chooses us because he knows we would want to be saved. There are plenty of people, that if they know the Bible was true, they would want to be saved, but they aren't saved. No, i believe that nothing we could do or would do can ever impress God or set us out from the rest of the human race. As to why God would not choose everyone, ask him, the Bible does not say why Jesus did not come to save everyone, and i won't presume to know the mind of Christ. (because God certainly could have said, ok, since Jesus died everyone is now saved.)
 
But...God did say that (in a manner of speaking)

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life"

Those two words don't mean just a few speacial people. They mean everyone everywhere.
 
Cloud G said:
But...God did say that (in a manner of speaking)

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life"

Those two words don't mean just a few speacial people. They mean everyone everywhere.
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But i believe i never would believe in Jesus had he not come into my life first.
 
Hmm, i'm not sure how John 3:16 applies to the argument. Unless you mean to say that Jesus' death on the cross DID save everyone, afterall "God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." (John 3:17) So, now are we to say that Jesus' death was meant to save everyone, and condemn no one?

or perhaps we are debating limited atonement here - that is to say, Jesus' death only covers the elect. Which is a topic I run in circles on. Mist could give you the Calvinist view of it - as for the opposing view - well, I'm not sure? In any case, the fact is, Jesus died and we believe. If we chose to believe, then so be it. If God chose us, then glory to God! I honestly don't care which way it happened, either way God is above me and I am below Him.
 
This is very similar (if not the same) to the discussion we were having in the "Former Christian" thread.

I, personally, stand closer to C$ and freewill. The closest I've been able to reason in terms of Predestination is similar to what Pastori said about people not being saved because they don't want to be. And that goes into the whole If God knows everything, then He knew who would and would not accept Him. Soooo His grace is for those who knew from the beginning would accept Him.

Here's where I can't believe that God chose us and that was that. (And this is not my construction, I'm taking it straight out of John Eldredge's The Sacred Romance.) And ironically, Mist, you've already mentioned it...

(because God certainly could have said, ok, since Jesus died everyone is now saved.)
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I think the fact that God didn't do something like this is very powerful. It's true, He could have said, "Why you stupid humans messing everything up. You know what? *poof* There, now you are all Christians. Be good." And that would have solved alot of problems. JUST! (and I think this is important) Just as He could have literally forbidden Adam and Eve to eat the fruit in the garden.

But He didn't. Throughout time, God has given people the choice to follow Him. Yes, He chose the people of Israel to be His people, but never did He stop them when they turned their back on Him. There is something incredible about our God that sets Him apart from everyone else's. And it's not that He chose us rather than visa versa (as has been mentioned), but that He wants a true, honest, romantic loving relationship with Him. And that's exactly what Eldredge is writing about.

And because this relationship between God and man is, in popular terms, a love story, there are certain things which must be true, one of which is relevant to this discussion, and that is it must be a two-way relationship. What that means is that God wants a relationship with every person who has ever lived, and we as humans decide if we are willing to accept it.

The point is that God could have forced everyone into a relationship with Him. He has that power for us to be his robots. But He didn't, and because of that I think it is safe to assume He likewise does not call some into that same kind of relationship in which we have no power to accept or refuse. To me, that kind of relationship seems hollow just as husbands marrying wives against their will.

Remember we are the bride of Christ. What good is a one-way marriage? Sorry, I type alot. I actually spared you.

-Chadley
 
As a side note, please understand I am indifferent on the issue - I haven't chosen a side yet because I don't know. I'll argue for both, hehe! Frustrating to think about, starts me thinking about philosophical stuff.
 
I, personally, stand closer to C$ and freewill.
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have a minion sandwich!

But anyway, I'd like to note that what I stand by, free will, is just my opinion and I'm keeping an open mind on the issue.
 
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