Presidential Election 2020

The Mighty Gerbil

Tribe of Judah TF 2 Chapter Leader & CGA Admin
Staff member
So a day (more like 2 weeks XD) late and a dollar short I'm going to post some of my opinions about the 2020 Presidential Election. If I speak curtly, if I don't link to every source, my intent is not to hurt feelings or spew things I cannot source. I simply haven't the time, or strength left in me, to make the truth polite and re-look up every name and statistic I've seen over the years in what will already be a monolithic post. These are subjects I've been watching off and on for years if I get a name or number imprecise forgive me, on substance I am quite certain. Here is where I offend everyone on both sides because I refuse to lionize, or demonize, men, nor gloss over unpleasant truths for victory.

First and foremost no one, least of all Christians, should vote on feelings. The "cut of one's jib" should have no bearing on principles, moral, logical, and Biblical. One of the lies of the world is that morals, logic, and Biblical truth can be ignored by labeling them as "politics". A fallacy seemingly propagated in the face of hostility so people can avoid talking about anything that causes friction. If we are to expect swords in our own family how can we not expect them dealing with everyone else Matthew 10:34-36 . We are brought before governors and kings for His sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. Christianity has predated and outlived many governments. It is a selfish vanity to believe we are not to use all the things we are given to do God's will. Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, but not your vote?

With that in mind there are three subjects I generally rate political candidates on, abortion, LGBTQ, and supporting Israel. These are subjects which have clear Christian stances affirmed by moral, logical, and biblical principles which I will now lay out here. Yes there are other less clear (to me) issues, some which I will cover later, but these are among those confirmed by the Bible and prevalent in modern policy. Note: Click on the spoiler buttons below to expand them for each subject.
 
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The Mighty Gerbil

Tribe of Judah TF 2 Chapter Leader & CGA Admin
Staff member
The pro-choice argument is you are violating a woman's rights and that it is her body. There is no one more for a woman's rights than the one that defends their right to live, and therefore all other rights. More than half of all abortions are women being murdered in the womb (because some countries kill women disproportionately prioritizing men). Gasp and shock how can I be so unfeeling as to use the word "murder"? Don't you think the question of if we are committing murder bears serious consideration? Can you not even contemplate it? Abortion has rightly been compared to slavery and the holocaust because those things were justified by saying they are lesser people, or not human. How can we think that we are somehow removed from this excuse for sin especially when a pro-choice left also typically yells racism at any provocation. 60 million abortions in the US since Row V Wade which are by the way disproportionately black. Instead the pro-choice moment is fixated on defecting away from the core issue and labeling the pro-life movement as if it exists to oppress women. This does not speak to honesty. Your choices in life do not allow the murder of an innocent child. A mother once drowned her born children in a bathtub believing they were devil possessed. If her belief alone allows her to commit murder all legalizing murder requires is a murderer saying "I don't believe you are human". The only point that has any relevance is NOT then a woman's rights, but if an unborn child is a child.

Scientifically there is no magic switch at birth between the womb and world that turns a child "on". If breathing on their own is your metric those on ventilators shouldn't be human. If complete dependence on others to live is your metric babies still shouldn't be human after being born. The cells of an unborn child are indisputably alive, the cells are indisputable human, have their own separate DNA from the mother, and between womb and world will be the same ones that make up that child when born. An unborn child is not Schrödinger’s Cat. An unborn child has rem sleep, brain activity, can react to outside noise, they move, they can feel pain, they suck their thumb. Children have been born premature at 21 weeks and lived (if doctors don't abandon them to die and some do regardless of what parents want). Amillia Taylor born at less than 21 weeks is now two years old only because her mother lied about her pregnancy age, and I know she already has more value to the world than some doctors I've known.

Emotionally do pregnant woman have a fetus shower? Do they say the fetus shifted or the baby kicked?

Biblically it is written Jesus and John met while in their mothers' wombs and John leapt Luke 1:39-45 . A mindless, spiritless, blob cannot react to anything. "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you..." Jeremiah 1:5, Isaiah 44:2, Job 31:15. Many verses refer to you being formed in your mother's womb not at birth.

Historically America had laws against abortion from about 1857 to the 1960s so they are not without precedent and there has been continual arguing against abortion ever since it's legalization. It is in no way settled law or super precedent. Christians of the 1st century spoke against "exposing" a child. That is to abandon a newborn child to die in a vase, their technological equivalent to abortion.

Let's get to the heart of the matter though, the true question that includes and goes beyond abortion, what makes you human? Is it ability? Ability can give evidence of what we are, but it is not our value. Ability does not remove sin from the gifted and has nothing to do with using abilities selflessly or righteously. Valuing only ability leads to a society of the "gifted" exploiting and ruling those of "lesser" ability. The value of beauty, strength, and intelligence is subjective, but the value of a human cannot be subjective, or not everyone will be valued equally. Who decides "you must be this tall" to be human? That was the metric for much evil. Now if we are but only animals, would we not live as them? Kiss, kill, crime, or charity there is no good or evil for animals only instinct and chemicals. You can feel like being kind, but being cruel is just as valid. We herd and eat animals would we not likewise control and dispose of each other without regret? If you did feel a pang of remorse there is a chemical, drug, to treat that no less valid than actually making amends, and quite a bit easier. What motivation, what reason, but survival can you give to a human animal driven by instinct and dominance? That future is an oppressive, totalitarian, society which watches and controls a herd because it has no reason to control itself. If a victim is replaceable, if they have finite value, if it is in my interest, if I believe I can get away with it, then why not murder? No, our value is that humans are more than ability, feelings, flesh, or animal. We have a spirit, an eternal soul that sets us apart, that we are made in the image of God. We need this touch of the supernatural, something beyond scientific measuring or it could be manipulated, replicated, and devalued to nothing. Without this we are not unique individuals, but products valued only at the cost to duplicate a replacement. If the soul is our value and if we cannot detect a soul by it's nature we must assume our body receives one at the earliest possible point, conception.

What of pregnancy by rape? If you, an innocent, are assaulted by someone who amputates your arm it is not in your right to then assault another innocent to amputate their arm for yourself. That a woman is burdened longer by a horrific act is unfortunate, but unavoidable. Regardless of how a child is conceived it remains an innocent child. Two wrongs do not make a right.

Additionally unless you were raped you had a choice, don't have sex. The same exact, and equal, thing I tell to men. If you do get pregnant it was both participants choice to roll the dice and as such both their responsibility. Remember when society used to hold people accountable for their choices? You do not get to deliberately pass the consequences of your actions on to an innocent child. As a commentary on the hypocrisy of our society, if abortion is supposed to be a woman's choice alone, that it is ALL her body, how can men be held responsible for child support at all? Is it the man's fault she alone chose to have it when she could have aborted it? All your choice means all your responsibility, you can't have one without the other.

What if you still aren't certain? Then you choose life. Our justice system operates as innocent until proven guilty and it's how all fair minded people should. When one sees a body under a tree you do not bury them until you are sure they are dead.

Politely, and with us much respect as I can, I believe I must say the following. I know there are those that have gone through the traumatic loss of a child and questioned God at the loss. I cannot help but believe that loss was not in vain or without reason. That perhaps that feeling of loss is meant to motivate one to break their silence, to make one passionate about rebuking, pleading, with those that would willingly destroy what was so precious to you.

Watching the Pence/Kamala debate she brought out the "it's my body" line on abortion. It's not just your body Kamala that is the point, but of course Pence didn't say it, sigh. It is a point of contention with me that many in the pro-life movement let these things slide and will not say the M word. It's like talking about the holocaust without saying it was genocide. You may say "but you might drive them away with your cold unfeeling judgement!". I want to convince people too, I languish over saying anything for fear of making things worse, but it is not on us to convince people. We are to teach as Christ taught us, in example, in love, in truth, but only the holy spirit can convict people of the truth. It need not be driven home every moment, it should not be rude, but call abortion for what it is, not for malice, not for justice, but because a baby being a baby is the truth and the whole of the argument against abortion. We will never win if the central point is avoided allowing people to validate themselves with the baseless and nonsensical argument of "you're oppressing women". I believe a lack of truth telling is one of the reasons things persist so long.
 

The Mighty Gerbil

Tribe of Judah TF 2 Chapter Leader & CGA Admin
Staff member
Bibllicaly homosexuality, along with a bevy of other sexual perversions, is explicitly wrong in both old, Leviticus 18:22, and new testament 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (as well as in other verses). First the elephant in the room Leviticus 20:13 which says quite plainly to kill homosexuals. I do not believe we should kill homosexuals, but show them the mercy and love of Christ, however, you cannot show mercy to a person if they are not doing anything wrong, and they are. The wages of sin, any sin, is death, and while right and wrong did not change between the old and new testament we live under a new more forgiving testament. When the adulteress was brought before Christ to be stoned John 8:1-11 He said "He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first." very importantly Christ could have stoned her, but said “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”. As in I forgive you, but DON'T DO IT ANYMORE. Make no mistake though in forgiving we take some of the consequences of their actions on to ourselves. There also remains a question of how far our forgiveness should extend to people that aren't repentant, but that is beyond the context of this subject. Regardless having read the verses, and a couple homosexual apologist articles, I have not seen any reasonable interpretation that could approve homosexuality.

Logically a species needs things to exist. Air, food, water, a habitat that won't kill them, and the ability to reproduce. Sex is not an imaginary construct of your preference. Whether you believe by God, evolution or both, It exists for a purpose, procreation, and has only one functional way to achieve that purpose. The differing bodies, and attractions of the sexes exist to serve that end, you cannot have cosmetic surgery, or mix and match parts, and expect procreation to occur. What you want, what makes you happy, is irrelevant in making a machine function. You may dislike a job all you want, but some jobs still have to be done. Compare gluttony as a sin. When the primary reason a person eats is to be happy, not healthy, they get fat because pleasure has been prioritized over function.

Homosexuality exists in nature, but so does infanticide, cannibalism, throwing poo, not to mention disease, and birth defects. One does not accept insanity as "normal" because you find a physical cause. Psychopaths are said to be physically incapable or have muted empathy that does not make their actions acceptable. If homosexuality was normal or the standard it would be the I would also debate an immutable physical cause as the brain can change with practice and influence. Is it chicken, egg, or a cycle of reinforcing a minor variance over years. The portion of the brain associated with math was said to have been more developed in Einstein. Meanwhile, to the bias and hate of trans-activists, the majority of children that suffer with gender dysphoria grow out of it in puberty. The question of nature or nurture is not all one side. Like being born without a limb, if a human being cannot reproduce naturally it is neither natural or good.

Legally it is not our government's responsibility to make individuals happy. Make no mistake government recognition of gay marriage is not tolerance, but support. A more neutral (but not truly) position would be not to recognize marriage at all (note originally marriage was recognized to restrict mixed race marriages). It is a grievous judicial overreach to recognize gay marriage. Law must be interpreted within the context of the time the law is past otherwise a word that meant "law" could mean "pizza" if the slang becomes popular. Why not define marriage as between a person and tree, or between ten people and not two? The very fact multiple amendments to the Constitution had to be passed for the rights of races and women makes it evident the courts do not have the power to add a new subdivision of people. Furthermore marriage is an action, or state, not a human being. It has legal defined limits that make it what it is. Child marriage, and polygamy, are not recognized. Likewise LGBTQ have always had the same marriage rights as everyone else. A gay man could of always of married a straight woman while two straight women could not marry. I do believe America should recognize traditional marriage, but because it produces children, and provides a male and female role model. Like supporting energy efficient technologies it is in America's interest to support traditional marriage. We cannot emphasize to Fathers and Mothers the importance of being there for their children while at the same time tell people anyone can do the job. Traditional marriage is not only the principal means of how we pass on our values, but essential to a stable country. America's birth rate is now 1.77 and an epidemic of fatherlessness, particularly in black communities, does not produce responsible men. The existence of LGBTQ tells people they can be sexually irresponsible, that the goal in any relationship is whatever makes them happy. It is not the only problem breaking up families, but it is certainly counter productive to a message of responsibility.

Finally Homosexuality is not about love, it is about a specific kind of love, sexual. I can love my pets, my parents, my siblings, and my car. I can live with them too. I don't mate with them.

If more questions persist I once had a related discussion on these issues which may be of help https://www.cgalliance.org/forums/threads/being-bisexual.51908/#post-495549 .
 
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The Mighty Gerbil

Tribe of Judah TF 2 Chapter Leader & CGA Admin
Staff member
Biblically Israel is the land promised and given from God to Abraham, and his descendants the Jews. Prophecy is generally interpreted as requiring the Jews to be there. Christ himself laments Jerusalem Matthew 23:37. Israel is the land of the bible and explicitly linked to the Jews.

Historically the Romans called Israel Palestine to erase Jewish history naming them after their old and extinct enemy, the Jews never wanted to call it that, and never willingly left it (unless you count that famine thing with Joseph). Then way later in WW1 the British Balfour Declaration announced support for the establishment of a "national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine, then an Ottoman region with a small minority Jewish population. The Jews, and Arabs, were each separately promised a nation of their own in Palestine in return for fighting with the British against the Ottoman Empire. They win, but the Arabs don't like the idea of an Israeli state, because Islam does not like the Jews, even though they were both promised separate ones, so everybody gets stuck with Mandatory Palestine administrated by the British. Palestinian nationalism founded on opposing Zionism begins in the 20th century (unlike Zionism from Abraham four thousand years ago) and it comes into existence because Islam does not like the Jews. After WWII, and the Grand Mufti swapping love letters with Hitler, because Islam does not like the Jews, the British finally divide the land and leave starting the 1947–1949 Palestine war, or Israel's War of Independence. Several wars of not liking the Jews later we are here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Israel .

To be clear Israel has a Muslim minority, but to absorb more would mean they could simply vote Sharia law in and Israel would cease to exist. Sharia law has differing implementations, but it's Islamic law and I don't think Jews would be too keen on following something that once made them second class citizens forced to wear the gold star and pay the Jizya (Islamic tax). Sharia at it's core itself seems conceived to hobble non-Muslims like an Islamic Jim Crow. That doesn't mean it's always cruel but Islam has to be on top.

I've seen no evidence of Israel being the aggressor in any of it's conflicts and Biblically Israel has an explicitly defined territory which they have repeatedly retreated from holding. Israel has given authority over their most their most holy place, the temple mount, to Muslims and in response they dug a hole in it for a new mosque destroying what would have been Solomon's stables. Meanwhile Palestinians have...

Vandalized Sarah's tomb.
PLO Yasser Arafat (of Egyptian citizenship), embezzled money meant for his people's relief, and in no way showed any true desire for peace.
Have broadcast kids shows with a child talking about killing Jews.
Published the equivalent of the children's Highlight book showing how to build an IED.
Burnt tires, with the smoke blowing back on themselves derp.
Attached IEDs to balloons in the hope children would be attracted to them.
Then there are the continual rocket attacks for decades https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel

This is just the random stuff I know from long ago I am sure other things have happened. Lest we forget Islamic terrorism has kind of been a reoccurring thing in America for a long time, like before Israel existed (see the Barbary wars and Thomas Jefferson). Just what do you think it's like over there?
 
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The Mighty Gerbil

Tribe of Judah TF 2 Chapter Leader & CGA Admin
Staff member
These subjects I separate here which, while there are morals in them, I do not have explicit Biblical backing. As such I hold them in lesser regard. On subjects of universal health care, free college, the Green New deal, and basically things that will continually cost money I mostly state it this way. We are 27 trillion dollars in debt. Logically when an individual, or in this case, government has shown themselves fiscally irresponsible, when they have borrowed money ad infinitum, when they only repaid it in totality once in it's existence (at the cost of a depression), you do not have them take on additional responsibilities. Logically you say "Prove yourself responsible to me first, pay off your debt, then we can talk". If you can contemplate paying for new things you can pay for old things first. Obama was lambasted for doubling the deficit and now we've spent trillions on Covid alone. Once congress, easily, passed the first vote for five trillion (I can't remember the exact amount) in lock down relief we needed to start moving towards opening because the spending was unsustainable, because congress can never spend money just once in a crisis. Lock down was the right thing when we didn't definitively know the extent of Covid, or the cost of lock down, now we do. Also politically it was unavoidable in a virtue signaling world, sigh. Yes there are things only government can do by virtue of having a standing army, emergency services, etc. Yes there are natural disasters, wars, and temporary crises where one gets into debt, but the operative word is temporary. People will always need health care, education, even Christ said "For you have the poor with you always" Mark 14:7, these things are not temporary. When someone borrows money with no intent to repay it is not borrowing, it is theft. That is a moral issue and one we all share some responsibility in as each voter is a small part of the government. If you disagree then everyone should go take out all the loans they can, with no way to repay them, give all the money to charity, and see how that works out.

You also can't put all responsibility on those "evil faceless rich people" with disproportional tax brackets. If these rich people are so greedy do you think they will stick around when it's no longer profitable? Can America claim to be for equality when you pay a disproportional percentage solely because you succeeded? I thought the freedom to succeed was the American dream? We accept taxation because it is supposed to be used in the service of the taxed. If a bum and a rich man switch places so does taxation, however, not every bum has the motivation to ever succeed. The exact same ideology of penalizing success justifies the bum stealing money from those that have more, simply because they have more. Yet introduce a government middle man and we accept this inequality. If we are to claim equality we cannot penalize success disproportionately. If you want to punish the loopholes and excesses of the rich then close the loopholes, and tax the excesses, not the condition of having more money, but what money is actually spent on. Then taxes would be the same for everyone. Justice should again follow the guilty it should not prejudge based purely on success. Yes greed is a sin, yes the rich can have a confidence in their wealth that won't get a camel through that needle's eye Mark 10:24-27, but making money is not a sin nor is using it to serve Christ.If I were rich I would hope I'd use it to build Christian businesses in media, not a Charity by government standards, but to me what is needed to serve Christ in these times. By the way if you make more than $50,000 annually, you are in the global 1 percent, you are rich.

Government is not a charity, charity is voluntary, taxes are compulsory. Government takes from someone else to give to another, there is no money tree. Government is not God, it cannot solve all your problems, it should not, and cannot, guarantee your personal definition of happiness as that can be different, and conflicting, for everyone. The best it can do is work towards giving citizens an opportunity to pursue it. I'd like free health care, free food, and free education for everybody. I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony. These things are not free, they have a cost, and someone has to pay it. It is not a question of if we will reach our limit but when. I am a numbers idiot, but I do know democracies do go bankrupt, and with America there is no country big enough to bail us out.

As far as the environment I've never understood how some can be so dedicated to the ideas of energy efficiency and limited resources be so oblivious that money, the economy, is also a limited resource that needs to be spent efficiently. If America had 0 carbon emissions tomorrow the world would be 0.137 degree Celsius cooler by 2100. If every other industrialized country was on board this would avert warming by 0.278 degrees. https://www.heritage.org/energy-eco...barely-change-earths-temperature-here-are-the . Meanwhile the Paris Climate Accords did nothing but virtue signal and hamper our economy with many countries already in violation of it. We were right to leave it https://www.dailywire.com/news/after-pulling-out-paris-climate-accords-us-led-emily-zanotti . They also don't mention other global warming factors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/GlobalWarming/page3.php (I am NOT saying that is the only factor but is an additional factor). They don't talk about how a bankrupt country is expected to maintain military superiority over nations like China, or how to convince developing nations to forgo affordable environmentally UN-friendly energy and send their people back into poverty. "But we did something!" yes the Green New Deal will do something, it will cripple the economy for negligible results. My stance on the environment hasn't changed in decades. When I can see the smog cloud over downtown you can't tell me that's healthy, when the great lakes get so much algae you can't use it for drinking water, when there is a dead zone where no fish live in the Gulf of Mexico global warming is an irrelevant factor to wanting something done. Let me be clear we need actual solutions to be practical and sustainable not good feelings and restrictions which do nothing but make things worse. Example you have the California Governor meeting Trump, admitting that they mismanaged the forests, and going right into talking about global warming. Nothing Trump, or Obama for that matter, could have done would have stopped global warming, and by the Governor's own admission is not the cause of the fires. You know maybe not having to test and file a five thousand page report on the environmental impact of control burning an area before doing it might have helped. That's why they only had thousands of acres of controlled burning when they needed millions. Forest fires don't care about environmental impact they happen whether you want them to or not. Same ideology in California's energy grid. They went to wind and solar and took the natural gas and nuclear power plants offline, result, rolling brownouts and buying power from their neighbors. It's the same thing with electric vehicles, and I like the idea, but you are better off running your old vehicle into the dirt than buying a new electric one because of the carbon cost in making it. A liberal show once said this and they had to clarify it in a second episode, you know they got hate mail for taking away people's good feelings.

In regard to costing money the choice is Republicans/spend VS Democrats/spend a LOT more. Trump and Biden don't change this dynamic.Trump's plan is to balance the budget in 15 years, that's just balance the budget not pay off the deficit. In 15 years do you really think there won't be another crisis? Do you really think control of the government won't shift for 15 years? Meanwhile Biden's policies are basically being written by Bernie Sanders, Kamala, and AOC. The Green New Deal alone has been reported to cost between $50-93 trillion over ten years. I don't know what's been altered in it since, but the draft had things like getting rid of all cows, planes, and having the government create banks so we could borrow from them to fund it. A while back Mitch Mcconnell called Democrats who claimed to support it on their bluff by bringing it to a vote, no Democrat would vote for it.
 

The Mighty Gerbil

Tribe of Judah TF 2 Chapter Leader & CGA Admin
Staff member
So where do the Candidates stand on the issues:

On abortion:

Trump A
He has consistently supported the pro-life movement appointing originalist judges and signing an executive order.

Biden F
Wants to make and I quote "Row v Wade the law of the land".

On LGBTQ:

Trump C
Look the man draped himself in the pride flag to get votes in the 2016 election. Do I think Trump is super supportive of the gays? No I think he is probably in the "doesn't really care unless it effects him" section of America on this. Though appointing originalists is the most important thing a president can do on this at the moment and he is doing it.

Biden F
Quoting Biden “The idea that an 8-year-old child or a 10-year-old child decides ... ‘I want to be transgender ... it’d make my life a lot easier,’ ” “There should be zero discrimination.”

On Isreal (and foreign policy because it intertwines):

Trump A++
Moves U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem. An act long approved by congress, but neither Obama or Bush had the guts to do. Brokers the first historic peace deals in 26 years getting multiple Arab countries to recognize Israel for the first time. Kills Soleimani a man responsible for the deaths of American troops and funding terrorists around the world. Sends troops back into Iraq and defeats ISIS immediately. Actually fights China something decades overdue. As far as flattering Kim Jong Un. If you haven't noticed Trump has an ego, Kanye West flatters and treats him with respect and gets prison reform, not a Republican platform. Now given how Trump thinks just what technique do you think Trump would use to influence Kim Jong Un? Honestly it's not a bad tactic as long as it doesn't translate to policy, like Obama, or being hosted by his own petard. Trump has shown he can be tough on China and Iran if need be so I don't think flattery is a problem as long as it remains words.


Biden F
I have no reason to believe Biden will be any better than Obama as he fawned all over him, and is more than likely worse. Obama had a hostile relationship with Netanyahu pressuring him to make dangerous concessions. The Iran nuclear deal being the worst, paying Iran cash (in foreign currency that could not be traced) for a deal that only delayed nuclear development and had insufficient oversight. Obama pulls out of Iraq saying "we are leaving a stable government" and dismissing ISIS as the "JV Team. Government collapses and 100,000 people die as ISIS attempts Genocide and I can't remember how many flood Europe. Then Benghazi which they ignored security warnings on and when it happened blamed it on a video. Obama caught on open mic telling the Russian President "after my election I have more flexibility" i.e. I'm going to lie to America about what I intend to do. The one thing Biden did different than Obama was Biden wanted to wait to kill Osama bin Laden. No Biden will not be hawkish on anything.
 
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The Mighty Gerbil

Tribe of Judah TF 2 Chapter Leader & CGA Admin
Staff member
NOTE: I think there may be a curse word or two in the video links here I cannot remember.

I haven't the strength left to go over properly Covid, BLM, Media bias, or immigration, so quickly... I see nothing in policy Biden could do different with Covid but lock down more which I disagree with. BLM is a racist (because reparations against whites is a racist concept that ignores the individual), Marxist (two founders are trained Marxists), Violent (members have condoned looting for reparations, talked of burning down the system in the literal or figurative sense), LGBTQ supporting group. They are fundamentally not pursuing equality. To them it is never justified if a black person is shot by police. Yes there is racism in America, and will likely always be, but there is no systematic racism. Finally media has been fear mongering with Covid but at the same time egregiously, hypocritically, ignoring condemning the protests and riots for passing Covid, or at this point just ignoring them.

If you want to know about Biden, career unprincipled politician, as in he will flip when pushed by his party winds. Shapiro did an episode on him. The question of Biden's mental fitness is relevant as well. Compare, Dan Quayle's career was roasted in the media for spelling potato wrong, when it was spelled wrong on a card (1992 guys does the media seem fair?), meanwhile Biden talks about his leg hairs, The Poor Boys and mistakes George for Trump (and has "Trump" mouthed to him by the interviewer). Just search Youtube for his gaffe reels. The man is not all with it, but, if I am being honest, I'd vote for a plank of wood if the situation was reversed. Rather his mental state is relevant in that Kamala Harris will very likely be the one running things. Kamala is basically black Hillary Clinton except farther left. It is amazing how she believed the woman who accused Biden of sexual harassment until she got picked for VP.

Look when Trump first ran there was this question whether he would stick to Republican principles. He had after all given money to Hilary Clinton at one point. He has in fact been a better president than Bush. Bush defended himself on issues, Iraq, water boarding, etc. but he never went on the offensive. You can't win a fight that way. As a Christian on personal slights you should turn the other cheek but on moral principles you should never back down. For decades now the refrain from the left has been if you are conservative you are racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, etc. To be clear you can call a person names, but you should have to back it up with facts. You can't just be Kamala and tell Pence he is sexist when you can't answer the question. All of late night is now dominated by leftists like Stephen Colbert who literally said "we don't need those people" meaning Republicans. With the exception of Fox all the major media outlets are leftist. The left has more money and Hollywood behind them. Alternative media Youtube, Twitter, and Facebook where conservatives have escaped to is still all leftist controlled. Twitter has actively added their own biased fact checking links to the President's account. Facebook and Twitter have blocked the New York Post's Hunter Biden story and those who retweet it.

It's a game of Democrats twisting a rule and when the Republicans use the same thing are attacked as being lawless. Senate Democrats use Pro Forma sessions to block Republican appointments, Bush respects it, Obama gets in office, ignores Republican Pro Forma sessions and objections, media accuses Republicans of twisting the system, Supreme Court overturns appointments, media suddenly loses interest. Obama admits he can't legalize illegal immigrants, then decides to do it anyway through executive order, and you know it's bad when a SNL skit actually made fun of a Democrat's policy (which they never do). Three and a half years of investigating and reporting on if Trump is colluding with the Russians, 48 million dollars spent, and 500 people interviewed, and nothing. Then when you want to investigate what went on, no you can't do that. All of it from one report, the Steele dossier, from one man, who was discredited early on and was suspected of being a Russian plant. Then they kept with it anyway. Going to hold Hilary accountable for wiping her server? Nope. Going to hold the ~15 agents accountable who wiped their phones. Nope. Yes you can post as unsubstantiated accusations against Trump as you like on social media but post about Hunter Biden and it's blocked.

Bush tried to play compassionate conservative and got nowhere, then we got Obama, thus in 2016 as one voter told my Father then "it's like they are voting with their middle finger" and we got Trump. Why because at least Trump will fight back. I've not seen media called out on things like cancel culture or fake news (I prefer lies of omission news or "loon" :p) from a platform everyone will see it before. Yes Trump is a double edged sword, or as Shapiro puts it, Trump is a hammer in search of a nail, sometimes he hits a nail other times he hits a baby but Trump did not create this conflict. Media actually loved him before he ran for president as a conservative. He was on SNL dancing but once he won Kate Mckinnon sung a mournful Hallelujah dressed as Hillary Clinton, show hasn't been funny in years, but it is a joke. It all changed after that. Lefitst would have attacked any Republican but media's ego cannot stand one that fights back. Whatever ego Trump has is dwarfed by a media that views themselves as a paragon of progressive morality.

Trump is neither genius or idiot, but his need to say something gets him in trouble. Less more precisely phrased is better than fighting everyone. He is your uncle Bob who runs a successful business and is sure to tell everyone about it. He comes to your party and starts talking about things, a crowd gathers as you find yourself agreeing with him a lot. He's feeling it, he plays to the crowd, he keeps talking, then he says something awkward, and you suddenly remember you need to check on something in the kitchen.

Trump does have some principles he genuinely likes America. He's got interviews from the ~80s talking about being concerned about the country. He has consistently supported our military. Trump is not a racist he has condemned white supremacy many times.Though he is probably not a Christian as one interview asked if he ever asked God for forgiveness he said something like "I don't ask for forgiveness I try to do better" which is not a Christian stance, but Obama is likely not Christian either (seems more like a secular humanist). Also, I'm not sugar coating it, Trump bought his women, though I would hope he has grown out of that at his age. It does look as though he has purged the sycophants and opportunists following him around and has some Christians like Pence around him. Having seen the world as it really is and with people like Pence around I wonder if he might truly come to know Christ, or has. Trump will listen to anyone who respects him so maybe that is one of the more important things that will come from all this. If the Democrats could have contained their ego they should have been flattering Trump, they probably could have gotten things, and broken Trump away from the right. Thankfully I think they have burned that bridge by now.

Sadly even if Trump wins this presidential election ultimately it will only be a stopgap without the House or Senate. Still with Democrats talking about adding disproportionate Blue states to stack the senate, stacking the Supreme Court, and getting rid of the filibuster it is quite important. If Trump does win it will be another four years of complaining about and blaming everything on Trump. That is the dysfunctional part of the relationship between Republicans and Democrats they ultimately need Republicans around to blame. If it was just them they might eventually have to answer questions. Trump is not the chosen one, he will not bring balance to the force, nor is he Darth Vader. He has however made the media's bias startlingly evident. Really the election is not about Trump at all it's about if people are going to see through the lies, if not, I wonder what it will take. If Trump does win I await the mobs burning and looting.

I've said before love Trump if you like but always love Christ more. The opposite is true as well. Even if you hate Trump always love Christ more. Vote for principles, vote for what Christ wants, not how you feel.

Hopefully my spelling errors aren't too bad XD. My eyes are failing I probably won't be able to respond to any replies here before the final day. Vaya con Dios.

EDIT: Here is Shapiro's take on Trump it's quite good.
 
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Soulivium

Tribe of Judah Warframe Chapter Leader
Staff member
Gerbil, I want to respond to your posts and why I DO NOT believe Trump should be re-elected.

This is not a personal attack on you, but there should be a fair, balanced assessment if we want to talk about Trump's qualifications as a presidential candidate. A few observations that I must point out:

1. The sobering reality is that all people are flawed, imperfect, and are prone to sin. They will disappoint us - be it Trump, Biden, or anyone in political leadership positions.

2. Be cautious in trusting politicians to execute the change we want. Cynically speaking, they can and will pander towards any demographic group to vote for them. Frankly, I think it's round 2 of terrible presidential candidates, but if we assume that Trump and Biden have the best chances of winning, then we need to vote like our lives depend on it. Depending on who you vote for, it will mean good for some but death for others.

3. God ultimately is The One whom all Christ followers must depend on for all their needs.

4. That said, God also has permitted and established government to maintain order and peace on society. See Romans 13:1-7.

5. God also has graciously given Christians the opportunity to participate in ministering to others by giving our time, energy, and resources to bless others and make positive change.

6. We as American citizens have immense freedom and privilege to have a voice in policies that affect not only us, but our country as a whole. With that privilege comes responsibility.

7. Part of our responsibility is staying informed about the 2 main candidates, to be aware of our bias (media bias and sly propaganda goes both ways), and to vote for the leader who can do most good for all people.

8. As Christians, we need to be aware and remind ourselves of Ephesians 6:12. There are bigger, spiritual forces involved in the grand drama of history.

9. We Americans live in a country filled with people that come from all sorts of backgrounds and therefore have different needs. We must ask ourselves WHO will benefit from the change because not every policy will be beneficial to everyone.

10. I believe the reason why people look to the government for help is because ultimately the Church has failed in certain areas to be the light and represent Christ to a dark world. We American Christians have developed a terrible habit of being complacent and maintaining the status quo. We need to remind ourselves in not getting caught up in the American (Consumerist) Dream because it's a myth. Our true citizenship isn't in the US, but rather the eternal kingdom of God. And if all things come from God, be it the resources of the earth, the money we earn from the jobs we work in, the food, clothing, shelter, and entertainment we consume, then effectively nothing is truly "ours" to keep and hoard. The Bible has consistently called believers to responsible stewardship of their resources and to give freely and generously to support our brothers and sisters as well as the community at large.
 
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Soulivium

Tribe of Judah Warframe Chapter Leader
Staff member
A few clarifications about my stances on some core issues:

1. At my core, I am pro-life. The unborn child's life is just as valuable and loved as the woman who carries the child and the man who impregnates her. I'm also aware that pro-abortion policies also exacerbate racial and gender oppression (patristic societies that strongly prefer sons are experiencing a shortage of marriageable women due to the abortion of baby girls). In all my debates on the topic of abortion, many pro-choice supporters emphasize the woman's safety and quality of life, but no one seems to acknowledge the life and well-being of the unborn child. Abortion also implicitly waives the father's personal responsibility to support the mother and child. On the flip side, the problem I have with the general pro-life demographic at large is that they strongly support the belief that women should bear their children, but then they also seem to forget to promote policy changes to give the mother (and the father) the resources she needs to care for her child. I am not a parent (at least not yet), but I recognize that raising children demands so much energy, resources, and time. And if children are our future, then there should be changes that support the parents to be able to care for their children.

2. As a Christian, I affirm marriage is between a man and a woman, and it's sacred and instituted by God. I also affirm that marriage and procreation are intimately interconnected and are the basic building block of society. However, I do not condone the discrimination and bullying of the LGBTQ community by denying them their jobs, to deny their freedom to visit their loved ones, and how they want to identify themselves. I may not agree with them, but I will still do my best to treat them with dignity and respect as they, too, are made in the image of God. What I am most concerned is when tolerance becomes indoctrination by forcing people to agree with their LGBTQ stances. I feel that these days Christians, specifically those who work in the wedding industry, will need to navigate carefully in how to do their business without getting sued just because they refused service to an LGBTQ couple.

My focus will be on immigration, racial issues from a person of color (POC) perspective, and the COVID-19 pandemic response.

1. I acknowledge that the issue with illegal immigration and undocumented immigrants needs to be addressed as the US has only so many limited resources, but it is unjust when migrant families who have fled from their oppressive home countries are left vulnerable to inhumane treatment at the detention centers and separated from each other. And as Christians, we are called to be Christ-like by welcoming the poor and the alien by lifting them up. As far as I know, Trump has mishandled that situation by enforcing policies that are detrimental to those migrant families.

2. Trump has tactlessly characterized Latino immigrants as rapists and criminals in his campaign. That is an offensive and harmful stereotype to the Latino community, if not racist.

3. Trump has sidestepped on the issue of white supremacy in his debates with Biden. It's not entirely clear if he truly did condemn white supremacy or not. Depending on how you want to interpret it, Trump may have said yes he is WILLING to condemn it, but what did he exactly mean when he told the Proud Boys to "stand back and stand by?" My interpretation is that Trump HAS NOT EXPLICITLY CONDEMNED WHITE SUPREMACY.

4. Trump has handled the COVID-19 pandemic very poorly and as a result, hundreds of thousands of people have gotten ill and died. He didn't promote COVID-19 testing fast enough in the early days when the pandemic hit the US, he has refused to lead by example and has not worn a mask, and he has spurned the advice of medical experts (like suggesting that injecting disinfectants could help beat the coronavirus). We are STILL stuck in this pandemic and people whine, mock, and attack the importance of face masks and social distancing. Until we actually have a viable vaccine, we need to do our part to make sure we not only protect ourselves but also our communities who are most vulnerable who CANNOT afford to get infected because of compromised immune system. To refuse to do so is selfish and unloving.

5. Trump has continually called COVID-19 coronavirus "kung flu," "Wuhan flu," and "China virus." This is harmful because Trump is implicating that the Chinese people (and by extension Asians) should be blamed and targeted for the origins of the coronavirus. Violence and hate crimes towards Asian Americans have recently gone up as a result.

6. The US as a country has not completely recovered from centuries of its racist past and white, Euro-centric, colonialist mindset. African Americans are no longer slaves and they have afforded equal rights that's true, but they are still put down as a community who are stereotyped as inferior and criminalized. Examples are the old Jim Crow laws, Black people being lynched, the redlining housing policies that set Blacks at a disadvantage, and the Tulsa race massacre of the "Black Wall Street." As far as I know, many of them are weary of their life experiences informing them that they're treated differently and have to behave differently because of their skin color.

7. The current American healthcare system is broken and useless to those who desperately need it the most. Millions of people are either uninsured or underinsured. There are people, my family included, who have benefited from federally funded programs that otherwise would have left them in a debt hole they could never crawl out of, or end up homeless, or dead. And I'm perfectly OK paying the same taxes to help support those who are struggling and don't have the means to get help because I've been there.

For these reasons, I do not support Trump. I am legit concerned that if he is elected again, it will worsen the racist white supremacist, nationalistic, and the gradual fascist rhetoric. His policies will leave my loved ones vulnerable to violence, disease, and death. And I fear that Asian Americans like me and my peers will be scapegoated for COVID-19 when we're just as frustrated, tired, and afraid of the disease as much as the rest of the world.

For my fellow Americans who are interested in voting, I highly recommend these resources:
 

CowRocket

Well-Known Member
For these reasons, I do not support Trump
You really, and I mean really, need to do your own research. We cant rely on the news anymore, Satan has blinded so many folks. I cant see how any Christian can support the left, they want us dead at worst, in chains at best.
Asian Americans like me and my peers will be scapegoated for COVID-19
Oh stop, no one is scapegoating Asians. The virus came from China, possibly as a bio attack to sway the US elections. You're letting your own self discriminatory ideas cloud the actual facts. Many viruses are named from thier origins. Spanish Flu, Asian Flu, MERS (Middle East Respiratory Syndrome), and many more
it will worsen the racist
Do you actually know what *racist* means? Don't just google it either, check the definition from pre 1980, before it was changed to support the lefts agenda.

You do you though, we'll all have to answer to God eventually. Until that time, I prefer freedom.
 

Tek7

CGA President, Tribe of Judah Founder & President
Staff member
You really, and I mean really, need to do your own research. We cant rely on the news anymore, Satan has blinded so many folks. I cant see how any Christian can support the left, they want us dead at worst, in chains at best.

Oh stop, no one is scapegoating Asians. The virus came from China, possibly as a bio attack to sway the US elections. You're letting your own self discriminatory ideas cloud the actual facts. Many viruses are named from thier origins. Spanish Flu, Asian Flu, MERS (Middle East Respiratory Syndrome), and many more

Do you actually know what *racist* means? Don't just google it either, check the definition from pre 1980, before it was changed to support the lefts agenda.

You do you though, we'll all have to answer to God eventually. Until that time, I prefer freedom.
As someone who spent much of my youth listening to others casually dismiss and seek to invalidate my opinions because they weren't the majority, your post raises multiple red flags.

It's clear that @The Mighty Gerbil and @Soulivium put considerable time, thought, and research in to their posts, even though they land on different points on the political spectrum. You, on the other hand, show up and immediately dismiss the concerns of a person of Asian descent living in America during a pandemic that originated in China. You tell the same person, "You really need to do your own research," yet cite no sources at all. As a fellow Christian, we should be seeking to encourage and exhort, not tell people with sincere concerns that they're wrong to feel how they feel.

Nowhere did Soulivium dispute the fact that the virus originated in China. Yes, past viruses were named based on the best guess regarding the point of origin, but that is no longer the standard. You can assume intention if you like, but there's merit in naming the disease based on its characteristics rather than the point of origin when the focus of scientific study should be to develop a defense against the virus and leave the assignment of blame and consequences to other institutions. (Fun fact and side note: There's evidence that the Spanish Flu most likely did not originate in Spain.)

I'm all in favor of civil discourse among Christians, even when we're passionate about what we believe and land on different sides of complex and controversial issues.

I'm not in favor of promoting conspiracy theory thinking ("The virus came from China, possibly as a bio attack to sway the US elections") and out-group homogeneity ("they want us dead at worst, in chains at best"). I'm highly resistant to censorship on these forums (within reason, of course), but I also won't stand silent when I see speech and behavior that represents the CGA, fellow Christians, and Christ poorly.

The tone of your post was rude and this type of post has no place on forums for a Christian community. You're welcome to disagree, but please do so in a respectful manner.
 

The Mighty Gerbil

Tribe of Judah TF 2 Chapter Leader & CGA Admin
Staff member
Remember Cowrocket I know it's easy to get emotional after being nonsensically called racist, sexist, and homophobic, for decades, but the goal is to actually convince people of the merits of our values.

On Immigration:

1. This article explains the illegal children better than I can https://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/whos-responsible-separating-alien-kids-their-parents-many-people-not-trump People are going to complain whether you keep children with adults or separate them. There is no solution but to cave to unfettered immigration which is unacceptable. At one point there were some photos that surfaced that tried to malign Trump on detainees until you look at the dates and realize it happened under the Obama administration https://apnews.com/article/a98f26f7c9424b44b7fa927ea1acd4d4 . Thus why Trump repeatedly said in the debates "Who built the cages Joe?". However even the AP's article is misleading if you read the first one from Heritage. No law, none, can be enforced without impacting children. El Chapo had children too he still had to be stopped. Criminals have children they still need to be stopped. Illegal immigrants are not all violent offenders but ALL of them are breaking the law. I remember the media trying to blame border security for the death of a young girl who got dehydrated. They tried to save her it was her father that brought her miles without water. Maybe some responsibility should be levied on the parents abandoning their children at the border.

2. I kind of already talked about the Chinese flu thing to death here https://www.cgalliance.org/forums/t...ty-check-in-and-discussion.52151/#post-496619 . Condensed version. First condemn the many news networks as racist on the same level because they called Covid Chinese first. China needs to be held accountable for Covid. It is an amazement to me that people who will blame Trump for Covid will not blame China when they are the only ones who had a shot at containing it from the world but blew it. Hey I'd like a term that blames China that doesn't result in loons attacking random Asians too but there isn't one. Random loons that include black (the Febreze guy) and Hispanic (the guy that knifed some Asians) people btw.

3. While it is easy to conflate, and Trump has done some boo boos there, being against illegal immigration has nothing to do with race. Nor have I seen any policies against race, but illegal immigration.

4. Bush, not Trump, tried to build the wall, like most of Trump's policies it did not originate from his mind. The difference being Trump is actually succeeding where Bush failed. Some Democrats (Chuck Schumer) actually wanted more border security until it became a Republican talking point and they had to play opposite day. Please include Bush and Chuck Schumer in the list of racists.

5. I will give you a few of my experiences in Texas (or more so my Father as I only get outside rarely). My 80+ year old grandmother was shoved on her couch by two 15 year old Hispanics as they attempted robbery. One friend of my father was rear ended by an illegal without insurance and injured. He ran back to Mexico because apparently it's not as terrible as being liable. Another business associate was robbed when two Hispanics broke into his locked shed and stole some fencing and a trailer. Police found the fence they built, and the trailer dumped in a ditch, but would do nothing. Father waits in line at the store and sees a nice looking Hispanic couple buying food with food stamps, and food for their baby with another government card (forget what it is called). Then they pull out the real money and buy cartons of beer and cigarettes and walk over to the lotto machine and put two twenties in it. Father casually asks fast food restaurant about getting a job there, response "if you can speak English and Spanish you can be a manager, if you can speak Spanish you can work here, if you can only speak English we have nothing for you." Father goes to the store and there are two people in it and my Father asks where everybody is. The response "ICE came through and everyone stayed home". Father goes to the store and there are 2 people in the returns and 8 in the send money to Mexico line. Even in my bubble of a life I was here before Telemundo, here before La Rasa replaced the oldies station I used to listen to.

To be explicitly clear their are criminal people of ALL races and there are many good hard working Latinos, some Republican, who came over legally but the idea you cannot screen people coming into the US (for character not race) or have any limits to immigration is absurd. If you disagree then open your house to every random homeless person, no questions, no limits, let them sleep next to your daughter, otherwise you are a hypocrite, and don't care. Mexico being over a river did not make it a dive it's people's choices did. It's the Mexican president saying "hugs not bullets" to the cartels as they gun down Mormons. The very fact people are fleeing Mexico testifies to being a fundamentally worse place than the U.S. Yet there is no reason to believe those fleeing will not make the same bad choices here. Joe Rogan (not Hispanic), leaving California for Texas because of high taxes yet he supports Bernie Sanders. If for nothing else Texas is in danger of going blue. I have a right to have my vote count not be made moot by illegal immigration (those 11 million illegals, last time I checked, have kids and are instantly citizens). I do NOT believe race has any significant differences in behavior but culture certainly does and culture, values, are passed primarily through families. Furthermore Mexico will only change if it's people rise up and change it and as long as we are enablers it's far easier to run than fight. Trump has offered aid to help clear out the cartels but it's been refused. I have seen the character of Texas change and legal citizens, of any color, should have the right to say no we don't want to be Mexico.

I've always agreed Trump could phrase things more politely but, as always, he is playing to a base that has long been groundlessly treated as racist and second class citizens for wanting the law enforced. Again government is not a charity it's first, and only, obligation is to serve it's people. It is both in our interest and Mexico's that we effectuate change there but it has to be on their side of the border not here.

People are equal, cultures are not, otherwise all countries would be the same.

Please know I actually agreed with some of your post Soulivium but I haven't the time to write about it. I also haven't the time to phrase things better so apologies on speeeeeeling and any curtness as I have to actually go vote myself. God Bless.
 
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CowRocket

Well-Known Member
Seems my last post was seen as rude, I don't see why, but I'm not in others minds. Here are some facts, backed by data.

Trump has tactlessly characterized Latino immigrants as rapists and criminals in his campaign. That is an offensive and harmful stereotype to the Latino community, if not racist.
Illegal immigrants

Trump has handled the COVID-19 pandemic very poorly and as a result, hundreds of thousands of people have gotten ill and died
He stopped travel ASAP, and was flamed for it.
Projection from March..... Actual numbers, and are they over inflated?
What could have gone better?
My interpretation is that Trump HAS NOT EXPLICITLY CONDEMNED WHITE SUPREMACY.
Trump is a Racist?
Violence and hate crimes towards Asian Americans have recently gone up as a result.
I cant find any supporting data for this claim. Plenty of articles, but they are all linked together in a circular web, no actual data..... I will keep looking though.
but they (Blacks) are still put down as a community who are stereotyped as inferior and criminalized
The problem with the intercity black community is the destruction of the family. Blacks have thier own problems. BLM is a hate group, founded by a white dude and backed by the NWO.
And I'm perfectly OK paying the same taxes to help support those who are struggling and don't have the means to get help because I've been there.
Taxation is theft. If you want to help folks out that need it, that is your decision. Others shouldn't be forced at gunpoint to assist
As for healthcare, we have a government full of lawyers. Those folks will not hurt thier colleague, malpractice insurance cost is a huge burden. Fix that, costs will plummet, don't force others to pay for your healthcare.

I really dislike Trump as a person, I see a lot of my own shortcomings in him, but he handles foreign policy fantastically, our religious freedom, and many other good things. The left is full of corruption and want to take our God given freedoms away

I could go on for days linking stories and data, but at this point its beating a dead horse.
 
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The Mighty Gerbil

Tribe of Judah TF 2 Chapter Leader & CGA Admin
Staff member
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Soulivium

Tribe of Judah Warframe Chapter Leader
Staff member
My answers below are directed towards @The Mighty Gerbil. Will post more later.

After looking deeper into the issue of immigration, I realized how dehumanizing it is to use the term "illegal immigrants."

So going forward, I'll use the following terms and how I personally would define them:

Undocumented immigrants: Immigrants who do not have sufficient or proper documentation upon entry OR immigrants who legally entered and had proper documentation which later became invalid for some reason.

Unauthorized immigrants: Immigrants who illegally cross the border.

On Immigration:

1. This article explains the illegal children better than I can https://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/whos-responsible-separating-alien-kids-their-parents-many-people-not-trump People are going to complain whether you keep children with adults or separate them. There is no solution but to cave to unfettered immigration which is unacceptable. At one point there were some photos that surfaced that tried to malign Trump on detainees until you look at the dates and realize it happened under the Obama administration https://apnews.com/article/a98f26f7c9424b44b7fa927ea1acd4d4 . Thus why Trump repeatedly said in the debates "Who built the cages Joe?". However even the AP's article is misleading if you read the first one from Heritage. No law, none, can be enforced without impacting children. El Chapo had children too he still had to be stopped. Criminals have children they still need to be stopped. Illegal immigrants are not all violent offenders but ALL of them are breaking the law. I remember the media trying to blame border security for the death of a young girl who got dehydrated. They tried to save her it was her father that brought her miles without water. Maybe some responsibility should be levied on the parents abandoning their children at the border.

To clarify, I'm referring the Central American migrant crisis who were subject to Trump's zero-tolerance policy. While I acknowledge the separation policy did exist even before Obama, the major difference is that under the Obama administration it was relatively RARE compared to what happened during Trump's administration. Trump's administration made the separation policy intentional and rejected the migrants who sought asylum into the US to escape drug violence, gang recruitment, and sex trafficking that was threatening them in Central America.

We don't know the full situation of why the migrant families are fleeing their home countries and how much of the situation was even within their control. Some of the problems in Central America may actually be our fault. To imply that it may have the parents' faults for bringing their children near the border is victim blaming and a questionable lack of empathy. Any decent parent wouldn't want to subject their children near an area filled with drug violence, gangs, or be forced into sex trafficking. They would be compelled to get away from the threat as much as possible and find a better life (i.e. America). Instead of receiving help, the US has rejected them and the migrants' have been left vulnerable and were preyed upon. Immigrants are also vulnerable to both financial and sexual exploitation. That is not their fault; that is the fault of nefarious third-parties who prey upon them.

Why couldn't the Trump administration simply get the migrant families mobilized and situated so they can live and work legally within the US? It's more economically beneficial if Trump administration chose to streamline screening and providing the means to help the migrants live and work in the US. If the migrants are willing to pay taxes and don't commit crimes, what's holding the Trump's administration back?

2. I kind of already talked about the Chinese flu thing to death here https://www.cgalliance.org/forums/t...ty-check-in-and-discussion.52151/#post-496619 . Condensed version. First condemn the many news networks as racist on the same level because they called Covid Chinese first. China needs to be held accountable for Covid. It is an amazement to me that people who will blame Trump for Covid will not blame China when they are the only ones who had a shot at containing it from the world but blew it. Hey I'd like a term that blames China that doesn't result in loons attacking random Asians too but there isn't one. Random loons that include black (the Febreze guy) and Hispanic (the guy that knifed some Asians) people btw.

The CHINESE GOVERNMENT is to blame for their lack of transparency and suppressing the data when COVID-19 first erupted. Why should the Chinese person (especially Chinese AMERICANS), should be blamed for something they, as a whole, didn't expect it or want that to happen? China went through the wave, and later Europe (i.e. Italy). The US had warning signs coming from China, Italy, and other countries but by the time the pandemic hit, we missed the crucial window to ramp up testing, we got out of the quarantine too early, and people were irresponsible with face masks and social distancing.

But do you think the average American will want to understand that nuance? Hearing all these stories of Asians experiencing racism due to COVID-19 makes me doubtful. But to be fair, tribalism runs deep in the human DNA - be it American, European, Mexican, Chinese, Korean, etc. And sadly it's been like that since the Tower of Babel incident.

3. While it is easy to conflate, and Trump has done some boo boos there, being against illegal immigration has nothing to do with race. Nor have I seen any policies against race, but illegal immigration.

Define the term "illegal immigration".

Race does matter. It is an unconscious proxy to racism and colors people's perception of others. It affects one's own health and self-image. And it plays an important role in international/foreign relations. It was the crux of the issue in the Civil War, Hitler's extermination of the Jewish people, and it was what fueled the Black Lives Matter movement.

Everyone, including you and myself, needs to be aware of their own racial bias.

Trump's policies regarding travel bans from Muslim countries, the rejection of Central American migrants who sought asylum, and continuously using the term "China virus," are all racially charged and all point to specific groups of people that leaves them open for ethnic/religious targeting.

4. Bush, not Trump, tried to build the wall, like most of Trump's policies it did not originate from his mind. The difference being Trump is actually succeeding where Bush failed. Some Democrats (Chuck Schumer) actually wanted more border security until it became a Republican talking point and they had to play opposite day. Please include Bush and Chuck Schumer in the list of racists.

Whether you want to label their character/personality as racist OR their policies as racist, I'll leave that up to you. An interesting note was that even George W. Bush found Trump's racist remarks rather distasteful, though Bush has committed to staying out of politics and retiring from it.

Edit: Added extra words, corrected some links.
 
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Soulivium

Tribe of Judah Warframe Chapter Leader
Staff member
5. I will give you a few of my experiences in Texas (or more so my Father as I only get outside rarely). My 80+ year old grandmother was shoved on her couch by two 15 year old Hispanics as they attempted robbery. One friend of my father was rear ended by an illegal without insurance and injured. He ran back to Mexico because apparently it's not as terrible as being liable. Another business associate was robbed when two Hispanics broke into his locked shed and stole some fencing and a trailer. Police found the fence they built, and the trailer dumped in a ditch, but would do nothing.
Probably because undocumented immigrants are forced to risk driving in order to work. Especially in Texas, where it's just not feasible taking public transit.

As a fellow Texas resident, I actually grew up and lived in a Latino/Black community. Granted, elementary and middle school wasn't always great as I was often teased since I was practically the only Asian in the entire class/school. That, said, some of my best friends and classmates were Black and Latino. And I've heard countless stories of my mom telling me how many Latinos gave their hard-earned money to her because they empathized in her hard work to try to support me and my sisters.

I get that you've had bad experiences with your interactions with Latinos, but to me that's not a compelling reason as to why Trump's administration can't help get the undocumented immigrants get situated in the US instead of building a wall that's ineffective and a waste of taxpayers' money?

Father waits in line at the store and sees a nice looking Hispanic couple buying food with food stamps, and food for their baby with another government card (forget what it is called). Then they pull out the real money and buy cartons of beer and cigarettes and walk over to the lotto machine and put two twenties in it.

That's because SNAP food stamps only cover certain food items (bread, milk, produce, canned goods, etc.). Beer, cigarettes, toiletries, and other non-food items are not covered by that, so they HAVE TO buy those in cash. As someone who has lived through that experience, that's a normal reality. And just because they LOOK NICE, doesn't mean they're WELL OFF. You don't know the circumstances of what that family may be going through in their private lives. Maybe they just want to relax with friends and family after a hard day's work so they buy all that beer to host with their friends and families. A lot of Latinos I've interacted with tend to do that as a way to relax and be with their loved ones.

Father casually asks fast food restaurant about getting a job there, response "if you can speak English and Spanish you can be a manager, if you can speak Spanish you can work here, if you can only speak English we have nothing for you." Father goes to the store and there are two people in it and my Father asks where everybody is. The response "ICE came through and everyone stayed home". Father goes to the store and there are 2 people in the returns and 8 in the send money to Mexico line. Even in my bubble of a life I was here before Telemundo, here before La Rasa replaced the oldies station I used to listen to.

My guess is that they don't trust your dad since they don't want to be reported by ICE. Trump's administration has made the immigration climate very unwelcoming for immigrants in the US. The last thing an immigrant would want is to cause trouble and get deported.

To be explicitly clear their are criminal people of ALL races and there are many good hard working Latinos, some Republican, who came over legally but the idea you cannot screen people coming into the US (for character not race) or have any limits to immigration is absurd. If you disagree then open your house to every random homeless person, no questions, no limits, let them sleep next to your daughter, otherwise you are a hypocrite, and don't care.

To paraphrase, yes there are people from all sorts of ethnicities who commit crimes. I don't deny that. But I never said immigrants shouldn't be screened. And in some instances, the immigrant may not have the means to be able to provide documentation if he wasn't able to procure that as he was seeking asylum. My biggest problem is that Trump rejected the migrant families entry into the US when, if my assumptions are correct, the migrants sought for help and opportunities for better life. That to me is un-American.

Mexico being over a river did not make it a dive it's people's choices did. It's the Mexican president saying "hugs not bullets" to the cartels as they gun down Mormons. The very fact people are fleeing Mexico testifies to being a fundamentally worse place than the U.S. Yet there is no reason to believe those fleeing will not make the same bad choices here. I have a right to have my vote count not be made moot by illegal immigration (those 11 million illegals, last time I checked, have kids and are instantly citizens). I do NOT believe race has any significant differences in behavior but culture certainly does and culture, values, are passed primarily through families.

I've always agreed Trump could phrase things more politely but, as always, he is playing to a base that has long been groundlessly treated as racist and second class citizens for wanting the law enforced. Again government is not a charity it's first, and only, obligation is to serve it's people. It is both in our interest and Mexico's that we effectuate change there but it has to be on their side of the border not here.

For all we know, the Mexican government could either have their hands tied or be corrupted by drug cartels but I'm just speculating.

Last I checked, not every child born to immigrant parents is an automatic citizen as some immigrate into the US as foreign-born children who later become naturalized or remain as residents.

As a U.S. citizen, I have a right for my vote to count not just for myself but for my family, my community, and for those who cannot stand up for themselves because they're not even allowed to have a voice to address how much they are exploited and taken advantage of. To be a U.S. citizen and to be able to vote is an immense privilege that I suspect too many Americans take for granted.

People are equal, cultures are not, otherwise all countries would be the same.

Are you implying there are cultures that are inherently immoral? What kind of cultures are we talking about here? Are we talking about culture wars in terms of morality or are we talking about the cultures of foreign countries?

People are equal as they are made in the image of God. Cultures are expressions of human values and society, and they are not perfect but are still valid.
 
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