Rap, sex, parents, co-opting gamer culture, etc...

[James]

I would just like to point out that my first post in this thread has gone completely unchallenged.

 

[Gandhi]

I think your post was responded too, I think we should stop expecting celebrities to be accountable and put the blame on the parents.

Look at the average 40-something man and family who works three jobs because he feels he has to keep up with the ever-elusive "Jones'"

I agree with u on this, most parents spend so much time at work trying to give their kids the cool clothes and the newest game they leave their kids to be raised by tv. But the Artist is not responsible, their not role models their artists. Sure they picked their profession but its the media that built them up to be in aww off. We have people who are famous for being famous, look at Paris Hilton, and WIlliam Hung, what have they offered.

And what are the images they let in? Most of the time, not Christian.

I'm not christian so I don't care if the images are christian or not.
I actually heard the funniest thing today, a pastor wants the New Jearsey Devils to change their name to something less satanic.
Sry I think I went off topic

 

[[404]Cham3l3on]

So maybe if today youths are being attracted to the violence and drugs u see on tv, its because there are so many single parents out there today, who have to spend most of their day working to keep food on the table, and don't spend enough time with their kids.

Agreed. But like most things, there is no single one solution to the problem. Well, I guess there is but that is all about the individual's choices to work toward a cohesive, safe and loving society. It is not only that though, Ghandi, there are plenty of married folk who spend on average less than 10 minutes per day with their kids. What are we valuing as a society? It is kind of a endless cycle we are reinforcing our own society with the ideals we are extracting from society. I often wonder if it will take radical change in our thought processes to upset the illusion we so dearly cling to.

 

[kraniac]

their not role models their artists

Whoa, deja vu. I say again, they don't choose whether they're a person's role model. That person chooses. They may not want to be role models, but they have to be. There is no denying their popularity. They don't have to be perfect because we cannot expect perfection of anyone, but they have the ethical responsibility to influence lives for the better, whether they're Christian or not.

 

[James]

I would've responded to what was said but Cham3l3on and Kraniac beat me to it.

In all of what was said though, it simply cannot be denied that the images we feed our minds with, by any medium (including magazines) do indeed affect us.

That effect could either be good or bad depending on the content itself. In the end we are a product of what we allow to "produce us".

 

[Gandhi]

Wouldn't it be good or bad depending on how we precieve it. I might see a picture and get a different reaction from the guy down the street.

 

[James]

That statement can be used then to defend every kind of evil. The serial-killers on death row don't have the same reaction to murder as you do, does that make it morally right for them to kill?

Besides, if you hang around a group that curses all day, you will start to curse. It filters in whether you know it or not; that simply can't be helped.

Like-wise, if you constantly feed your mind with images of sex, and drugs, and songs about gang violence, etc. it will start to change you. Why? Because what we see and hear affects us. If that wasn't true, then advertisers wouldn't spend millions on the ads, they would be out of business in a week.. Think about it.

One of the main problems is that those images are force-fed to many who really don't want to see them. Even advertisements about food or clothing more often than not have secondary messages of sex in them.

Family-friendly TV shows include swear words that I do not approve of, and sexual situatons. It's enough to make me wonder why I am paying for people to flood my home with ungodly messages.

The point of it all though is you are what you eat. If all you have in your house is cake, doughnuts and candy, you are going to get fat, period. Spiritually, the same principal applies.

 

[Gandhi]

Well serial killers don't look at murder the same as most people.
But what I've never understood is what makes one word ok to say over another. What u consider a curse word wight be different from what I consider a curse word.
U're a product of your enviroment?
I work in a place where everyone curses but it hasn't made me start cursing more or less. Ofcource some of the words I use regularly u would consider a curse word, but to me its not a curse word.

Sex isn't bad, sex is great, y hide it and pretend it doesn't happen. If u don't like it change the station. I don't think its needed in alot of commercials, but thats pop culture right now. Its popular meaning the majority of people don't have a problem with it. Is that a good thing, well that depends on your own personal views.
And gang violence, biggest gang in the world united states of america. U're either with them or against them. If u do something they don't like they sanction u. Drive bys are wrong, well so is dropping bombs on the wrong people. U could say street gangs learned what they know from watching their goverment.

Family -friendly shows that include swear words, well again maybe what u consider a curse word is different from what most people consider a curse. U don't see most shows getting thousands of letters complaining about the language.

 

[[404]Cham3l3on]

Sex isn't bad, sex is great, y hide it and pretend it doesn't happen. If u don't like it change the station. I don't think its needed in alot of commercials, but thats pop culture right now. Its popular meaning the majority of people don't have a problem with it. Is that a good thing, well that depends on your own personal views.

While I agree with you that sex is great, I will propose a challenge to the statement of changing the station. What happens when say, my 7 year old daughter is watching the History of Flight on the History Channel with me and on commercial break a provocative commercial comes on? Well this did happen to me just the other day, so I turned the station. My question is this, has our society become so riddled and obsessed with sex that even educational television has to plaster the viewers with sexual stimuli to entice you to buy their product?

Honestly I think it is overkill. I should not have to police the remote on the History Channel when a program that is intended for all age groups is on. The commercials as well should jive with that. But they don't. That is a problem. I could become an extremist and just unplug the TV, but what is that saying? Should I take a back seat, and let everyone walk all over me because I don't agree with the commercials?

There has to be a balance here and I am not seeing it. When what is acceptable in society becomes everything but those views on these topics that people such as myself value then there is a problem. I guess my point is....in what way would it offend you as a viewer to not see sexual images on television? I think the argument that people who are offended by what is portrayed in the media as being 'uptight' or 'hiding reality' is overboard because most often these people are not in any way trying to harm or enslave society but rather are trying to preserve it from becoming engrossed with things like sex, etc.

I am in no way saying this person should live like that, or look like such...but what I am saying is that when the examples set before us are of a certain form we will most likely bend to that form. Take for example teen girls these days, not 18 year olds...I am talking about 12 and 13 year olds. Now can you honestly say that there is not a trend in the way that many of them present themselves that is different from say even a decade ago? What I am getting at here is that young kids are becoming sex symbols. While that may sound grossly exaggerated it is quite true. And in my mind there is no way I am going to idly allow my daughter to grow up like that. But because of the influence of the media, that is becoming harder to do by the day. I guess I always have the option of making my family a bunch of societal recluses.

 

[Gandhi]

Again maybe what u consider bad images are not that bad to most people.
Think about it, u would probobly complain about britney spears and her danceing being to sexual. And your parents were probobly upset with elvis girating his hips. Even though I don't really see britney as being a role model, u could always show your kids this is what will happen to u if u don't stay in school. But things change.
As for what 12 or 13 year old girls are wearing, where were their parents when they were leaving the house.
I think something that I disagred with was when I worked the snoop dog concert I saw parents and their kids going for it, and it was not a all ages show. I personally don;t care if there is profanity or not, personally I would let my kids listen to it, just like my parents let me listen to it. But when I when I went inside to watch the concert, the opening to the show was a video, which turned out to be soft core porn. Good well done porn but not something I would let my kids watch. What I found disturbing is no parent grabed their kid and took them out of the concert. Of cource for a parent to buy tickets to a adult concert and not read a review about it is stupid to me.
So I still blame it on parents. U could have all this imagry which u find disturbing around. But as long as u raise your kid the right way and spend time with them. Not let the tv be the third parent they will grow up fine.
And hopefully not run in to a mcDonalds and kill everyone haha

 

[[404]Cham3l3on]

Again maybe what u consider bad images are not that bad to most people.

Think about it, u would probobly complain about britney spears and her danceing being to sexual. And your parents were probobly upset with elvis girating his hips. Even though I don't really see britney as being a role model, u could always show your kids this is what will happen to u if u don't stay in school. But things change.

It is the declining standard that worries me. If the benchmark by which we determine what is 'acceptable' and what is 'not acceptable' as a society continues to slip....we will in short order be left with a serious dilemma in our nation.

As for what 12 or 13 year old girls are wearing, where were their parents when they were leaving the house.
I think something that I disagred with was when I worked the snoop dog concert I saw parents and their kids going for it, and it was not a all ages show. I personally don;t care if there is profanity or not, personally I would let my kids listen to it, just like my parents let me listen to it. But when I when I went inside to watch the concert, the opening to the show was a video, which turned out to be soft core porn. Good well done porn but not something I would let my kids watch.

Considering that the environment is becoming excessively less appealing with respect to my standards as a parent leaves me with less and less choices. In other words while I agree that it is the parent's role to be a parent, when the surroundings become exceedingly difficult to work with (in regards to 'correct' parenting) what choice do you have? Either change the environment itself or seek another environment. Since mainstream America is quickly losing grounds with respect to wholesome values, I am left with no other choice but to combat that cultural influence (or move which I am not willing to do, this is my country as well) that I find to be detrimental to a sound childhood. The principle in effect here is that while in this day and age you as an individual will not allow your kids to see this imagery, the mainsteam is quickly coming to the point of allowing such things openly. Herein lies the problem. The decaying standard.

What I found disturbing is no parent grabed their kid and took them out of the concert. Of cource for a parent to buy tickets to a adult concert and not read a review about it is stupid to me.

This is my point exactly. People are beginning to see this as 'nothing wrong'. I went to see 'Cold Mountain' with my wife (which I hated btw) and I was shocked that they allowed the scenes that they put into that film. That is not the 'R' rating I grew up with and I would consider the sex scenes X rated. What was really disturbing was there was a couple with their young (12 or 13 year old it looked like) boy. They didn't even wince. It really opened my eyes.

So I still blame it on parents. U could have all this imagry which u find disturbing around. But as long as u raise your kid the right way and spend time with them. Not let the tv be the third parent they will grow up fine.
And hopefully I cannot understand why anyone in their right mind would defend open sexuality for children under the age of 16. I am not trying to pinpoint blame as much as I am trying to expose the fact that negative influences abound in our society and at what point should we become proactive in repelling these things?not run in to a mcDonalds and kill everyone haha

While I agree with your statement that it is directly the result of poor parenting, I cannot yield to the reasoning that the elements our society esteems has no influence on parenting or children themselves. Media absolutely has a hand in the process, while parents are ultimately held responsible. I know my children will grow up fine, but this is not because the world around me is helping, but rather because I assume a proactive role in their development. It is the declining standard that worries me.

 

[Gandhi]

Well Cold Mountain is rated R what do u expect, but nothing x rated is in there. Also it was a good movie. I'm a Renee Zelwigger fan. Also remember there was a time when they wouldn't show kissing in movies (or was that india where they still cut kiss scenes out of movies in some movies).

12 or 13 year boy, thats nothing, I watched Basic Instinct when I was 12. Its not a big deal, I had good parenting.

 

[SLNT_FIR]

mmm... ghandi you are starting to worry me. i know what it feels like, as my parents are over reactive to stuff. but again, there is a point where we can see a change. you cannot simply say, "i had good parenting and i saw ____ movie", therefore, the other kids were ok.

good movie has nothing to do with who's in it, it's the content, THEN the actors... i like movies because of actors, but that should not be the main basis for the ratings.,..

 

[Gandhi]

My parents would of flipped if they knew I watched that movie, but I spent a half a year almost left by my self when I was a kid because my sis was sick. My parents would let me watch war movies like dirty dozen and the bridge to far stuff like that but they would sit and atch it with me. And through out the movie my dad would give me a history lesson.


But just because I watched such a highly sexual movie it didn't really change me.

U could say the content is bad, but there are millions of kids listening to "gangster music" and watching sugestive scenes in movies. What percentage of those kids go out and impersonate what they see or hear. I think a kid who goes into a school and shoots up the place because he hears something in a song was going to do something along that lines anyways.
I don't know, when I was a kid I remember watching tom and jerry and loonie toons which had alot of animated violence in it. I think millions of kids did, how many of them commited violence because they saw it on tv.

I give up now, I don't have a answer.

 

[[toj.cc]phantom]

I watch R rated movies all the time, I play M rated games. The very first movie I saw was High PLains Drifter (rated R) and the first game was DooM (rated M). With R rated movies, as long as it is just violence, language etc... my dad will let me watch it by myuself. If it has any nudity he watchs it first and thewn watches it with me. He also lets me play M rated games, because of that, they are just games! I've been watching/playing this stuff my whole life and I'm not any worse for ware. And if someone does go and copy what they hear, read, see or paly, they were already screwed up to begin with. They just blame it on these thingfs to get off easy.

 

[SLNT_FIR]

it depends. halo is rated M, but it isn't really bad. It's based on the degrees of the different categories.

 

[Gandhi]

But who decides what isn't really bad or not. I look at a eminem album and I think it isn't really bad, u look at it differently. What makes me right and u wrong, and vice versa.
I've said the same thing about cursing, what I was raised as fine u might think of as a curse. What makes u're definition of a curse better than mine and vice versa. How do u decide what is exceptable and what isn't.

 

[SirThom]

it depends. halo is rated M, but it isn't really bad. It's based on the degrees of the different categories.

Indeed. My 8 year old brother plays Halo. There should be a rating between T and M...like what they did with E10.

 

[[404]Cham3l3on]

Well Cold Mountain is rated R what do u expect, but nothing x rated is in there. Also it was a good movie. I'm a Renee Zelwigger fan. Also remember there was a time when they wouldn't show kissing in movies (or was that india where they still cut kiss scenes out of movies in some movies).

Yes it is considered inappropriate in India for kissing in movies. I know Cold mountain is an R rated film, but it went beyond what I expected. I am not some kind of prude here, but it just goes to show the ratings really streched the gray area of the 'R' rating...going far beyond what I would consider 'R' and should have been 'X' imo. I am not trying to say you are wrong and I am right, but from what I grew up with (talking R movies now), I consider the sex scenes in Cold Mountain rated X.

But who decides what isn't really bad or not. I look at a eminem album and I think it isn't really bad, u look at it differently. What makes me right and u wrong, and vice versa.
I've said the same thing about cursing, what I was raised as fine u might think of as a curse. What makes u're definition of a curse better than mine and vice versa. How do u decide what is exceptable and what isn't.

That is the entire point I am making. Society is dictating this. It is currently in an endless downward spiral. You know this whole discussion reminds me of the book 1984, where they burn the history so they can rewrite it. Before long nobody will see things such as lets say (hypothetically) public acts of murder as 'nothing wrong' because society will have deemed it so. Unless people start realizing the slow but steady trend we are in yall should mark this post, and in 15 years look at it again.

This type of process is what drove the Romans to spectate the death of Gladiators in the Colliseum. Openly murdering slaves for the entertainment of a culture, whom I might add was one the most powerful in history. I hope you don't view my posts as condecending or judgemental, because the way I see it everyone makes their own choices. I am just against the principle idea that says "society has little or no influence on me, so who cares what they do".

But I can't honestly keep silent on this issue because the end result offers us as a society very little. In other words, heck the argument could be made well lets just make every form and type of sex imagineable acceptable. Every drug acceptable. Murder acceptable. Why not? I mean let's just get done with the struggle already. Let's pull out all the stops. Why not? What makes alcohol acceptable and Marijuana not? Why does one person view things the way they do? Where did it all come from? Go to the roots. Who dicates what is right and wrong? Who decides what is a curse or not? Do you not do something because the law will punish you? Where did the law come from? If we believe that ourselves as individuals hold all the keys to judging what is right and wrong, well that is a scary thought....just like you said what one person believes is wrong another believes is right. So then we look to society for our governing principles. Well, if society says "hey it is OK to do this" and "not OK to do that" then most of the time many people just say well "it must be OK/Not OK, because this is what is accepted". When I watched 'Gladiator' I thought to myself, "you know this type of thing really happened" and that freaked me out. It freaked me out that a society could come to the point where it thought this was 'OK'. We would look at it and say "barbarians!", but how long before we don't see it that way and why?

Sorry about the long winded discussion, just that this is really something I have a strong stance on. I hope I haven't come across as rude and if I have I do apologize.

 

[Gandhi]

Well u can't really put sex, drugs and murder in the same catagory. Any type of sex that doesn't hurt someone is fine in my book. Drugs, well I'm in vancouver where our mayor is going to parliment to legalize pot and tax it. And I'm pro marijuana person. I think its not as addicting as crystal meth and lsd or alcohol and tobaco. Murder is wrong because u're takingsomeone's life away, and no one has the right to do that (there are exceptions but won't go in to that).
Well I'll finish this later gtg, and no I don't find anything u wrote rude. Its a forum we're all entitled to our own personal opinions.