The Alien Question part 1

BornAgain

New Member
The other fold.

John 10:14-16
"I am the good shepherd. I know my own sheep, and they know Me, as the Father knows Me, and I know the Father. I lay down My life for the sheep. But I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. Then there will be one flock, one shepherd."

Jesus seems to make a stark distinction here between these two folds of sheep. I do not believe that the distinction being made is between Jews and Gentiles because Jesus laid down His life for all of humanity who would believe on Him. It seems to me that Jesus speaks of a fold that He does not need to lay His life down for, but they are none the less His own.
I understand that the argument can be made that the Jews have their own covenant and that Jesus did not die to redeem them because they are His Fathers bride, but I want to go in a different direction here. Lets imagine that God Almighty has created life on other planets out there in the universe. This life is intelligent like we humans are but they are not exactly human. Lets imagine what kind of situation they might find themselves in and what kind of people they might be.
God did not originally create us to be the way we are today. Before we came under the curse of sin and fell from His grace we lived in a perfect place that was called the Garden of Eden. God had a personal relationship with Adam in the Garden and would come to walk with him in the cool of the day. It was the interference of Lucifer that messed everything up and drove a wedge between the relationship of man and his Creator.
Lets imagine what things might have been like if that wedge never happened and we never fell under any curse. Before Adam there was no one then God created Eve from his rib. God did this because Adam was lonely and he needed a helper. It could stand to reason that God may have gone on creating people in this way without us having to procreate on our own. I know this theory has some major flaws with it but we will get back to that thought later.
Okay, if Adam and Eve would never had sinned then they never would have fallen and that means that Jesus would have never had to come and redeem us from our sins. We would have still known the Lord Jesus because the Word says He was there from the beginning but He would have never became a human being.
I believe that if we look at the Lords words in this way then we just might be on to something. We of course need to substantiate the existence of life in the universe with other scriptures so lets get to digging around and see what we can find. Lets see if we can answer the question of if we are alone in the universe.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth but just how long ago was that? Science will tell us it was billions of years ago while some religious scholars would say it was 7,000 years ago. I think that on this issue I lean more towards science. While science and technology can be used for evil purposes and ultimately is what has ruined this planet it is not altogether wrong. There are scientific theories that are dangerous lies spawned from Satan's mind but what is proven as scientific fact cannot be brushed aside.
We do know that for a very long time the earth existed without us here on it. The earliest known civilizations date back to around 7,000 to 10,000 years ago and in the big picture that is not a very long time. The earth could have been created at the same time the entire creation was brought into existence then just sat here waiting for us to come on the scene. In the mean time, while God seeded other planets and did other things our planet was ruled by animal life and more specifically the dinosaurs.
Humans have existed for roughly 10,000 years but lets just imagine that we have been around for 400,000. If we had 400,000 years of development and advancement with Gods knowledge and no Satan to mess with us, how awesome might we be right now?
This equation completely changes the nature of humanity as we know it and the relationship we have with God. We would be a planet full of devoted Christians with no questions about where we came from or why we exist. We would be a planet of people who gave God His glory due and He would walk among us in plain sight for all to see. I suggest that there are planets exactly like this out there in the universe.
For a people with such an awesome closeness to God I do not believe that the earth and its unique situation would be any secret to them. I would bet that they know all about us and regularly keep tabs on us. I bet they are waiting for their opportunity to make contact with us.
Romans 8:19 says,
For the creation eagerly waits with anticipation for God's sons to be revealed.

Now lets talk about the earths unique situation. We as human beings I believe are a unique and complex creature. We have the ability to do great things and we have the ability to commit acts of great evil. We can allow ourselves to be deceived by liars or we can look within ourselves and turn to God and listen to the voice of truth.
When a person makes up their mind to follow any other institution besides the established Word of God then they choose the god of this world. Jesus said that the path to hell is very wide because there are so many ways to end up following that path. Atheism, Scientology, Islam, Buddhism, Hindu and the New Age are just a few examples of how wide the path to hell is.
The god of this world goes by a thousand different names but there is only one name given to man by which he can be saved and that name is Jesus. There is a battle that is fought around the clock that has gone on since day one and it is a battle for your soul. I believe that just as battles are fought between men on this earth there are battles being fought in the spiritual world and in the heavens. I believe in these battles because the Bible documents such battles.
I also believe there is evidence in the Bible that points to other planets which are the exact opposite of the planets we discussed earlier. There may be planets out there in the universe whose inhabitants are entirely devoted to the worship of Lucifer. These people see Lucifer as god himself and they worship him by a religion called witchcraft. This religion in many ways mirrors the elements of the religion of the One true God. Lucifer tried his best to copy the Lord and thus cause confusion between himself and the Son of God Jesus Christ.
There are religious sects in this nation and this world that teach that Lucifer is Jesus Christ. This is of course a lie out of hell. Lucifer is the son of Satan like Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Lucifer and Satan are one in the same but respected as different in the same way Jesus and the Father are one in the same but respected as different.
I am not sure exactly why God created Satan, perhaps it was so the creation would have balance. It is written that God is a God of justice and how can the scales of justice be weighed if there is nothing to tip the other side? I know for a fact that God has Satan on a leash and that even Satan must come before Him to give an account of the things he has been up to.
I do not believe that God created Lucifer to turn out the way he has. I don't believe that Lucifer was always the son of Satan because the Bible says that Lucifer was once the guardian of creation. Lucifer was a very high ranking official in the pecking order of heaven. Ezekiel 28:11-19 gives us an awesome insight into who Lucifer was and what he did and what will happen to him next.
It says he was the seal of perfection. We all look to Jesus as the personification of perfection. It says he was full of wisdom and perfect in beauty and that he was in Eden, the garden of God. The religious people I mentioned earlier will tell you that it was Jesus who was the serpent in the garden and Jesus liberated our minds from the constraints of the evil Creator. (Insert fart noise here)
It says he was an anointed guardian cherub who was on the holy mountain of God and walked among the fiery stones. This means that Lucifer dwelt in heaven with God and had a free pass to walk amongst the stars. It says he was blameless in his ways and this is sounding more and more like our Jesus. Let me tell you where the huge difference comes in at, verse 15.... Until wickedness was found in you.
Lucifer began to abuse his privileges and position by conducting some wicked business practices. Verse 16 says that by the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned. His merchandise is his trade, in his travels amongst the stars he began doing something sinful. It says he was expelled in disgrace from the mountain of God, he was banished from the stars.
Lucifer's beauty, his power and his splendor corrupted his thinking and he failed the Lord God. He began to use his wisdom to teach false doctrines and propagate a false religion. Verse 18 is where we can really gain some awesome knowledge for it says he profaned his sanctuaries by the magnitude of his iniquities in his dishonest trade.
Lets imagine that Lucifer is seated high in heaven and is second only to God Himself. Jesus Christ has his own sanctuaries here on the earth in the form of the Christian Church. Through Jesus Christ we have a relationship with God the Father but what if at one time that relationship came through Lucifer?
Lucifer was the bright and morning star who's name means the "bringer of light." He must have at some point sold himself out to the Devil and then became a bearer of a false light. We can see this pattern attempt to repeat itself in the life of our Savior when the Bible tells us Satan tempted Jesus 40 days and nights in the wilderness. Satan told Jesus, "Bow to me and I will give you all the kingdoms of the earth." Where Lucifer failed, the Son of God did not fail and did not take the easy way out. Praise the Son of God Jesus Christ because He is good and He is our Redeemer! Amen!

Ecclesiastes teaches us that all things which will be have already been. What we see on the earth, this struggle between good and evil and Satan's deception has occurred in the past but on a cosmic scale. On this earth Satan's sanctuaries are called Mosques, Lucifer has taken the name of Muhammad and Allah is Satan himself!
Unfortunately though it is not that simple. As I stated earlier the path to hell is much wider than the path of Islam alone. All false religions began with a core false religion which was taught by Lucifereans who came here many years ago. I will get into that in my next post, the Alien Question part 2.

God bless you all.
 

BornAgain

New Member
The Alien Question part 2

The visitors who came here from other worlds when mankind first walked the earth were Luciferians and they practiced Witchcraft. Witchcraft might seem like a joke but it is very prevalent and exist today in the form of Wicca. If a Wiccan makes the claim that their religion came before all modern religions as we know them, they are absolutely right. However, being first does not make it correct and only points to the fact that it is Satan worship.
So the question is, are these people who visited the earth and brought Witchcraft with them the fallen angels who rebelled against God?
The book of Hebrews chapter 1 speaks much about the angels and how they relate to Jesus Christ. It says all angels are subservient to His name and all angels must worship Him. I have read and heard numerous stories of how calling on the name of Jesus during an alien abduction will bring it to a quick halt because the aliens must flee.
Aliens always do their abduction business in the middle of the night and we know that the night belongs to Satan. Angels observed in the scriptures can pass between the physical and spiritual realms and when aliens come to abduct people they walk clean through the walls. This evidence might suggest that the aliens are indeed the fallen angels but then the Bible tells us something else.
2 Peter 2:4 says that God didn't spare the angels who sinned, but threw them down into Tartarus and delivered them to be kept in chains of darkness until judgment. Tartarus is a Greek name for a subterranean place of punishment lower than Hell itself. We also read in the book of Jude that the Lord has kept with eternal chains of darkness for the judgment of the great day, angels who did not keep their own position but deserted their proper dwelling.
If the fallen angels are chained away in the bowels of the earth then how are they freely flying around in our skies? I believe that these beings who pilot the disks are angelic in nature but not angels in and of themselves. The line between them and the angels who rebelled is easily blurred and this blurring may have began with the account of Genesis 6, which is where we begin to see that it was them who introduced Witchcraft.
Genesis 6 tells us that the sons of God saw the daughters of man and found them beautiful so they took any they wanted for themselves. It says that the Nephilim were on the earth both in those days and afterward, when the sons of God came to the daughters of man, who bore children to them.

Why were the aliens called the 'sons of God?' Some might say this points to the children of Seth's bloodline mating with the children of Cain's bloodline but that seems very weak to me. Adam himself was a son of God because he had no natural mother and father. All who came as a result of sexual intercourse were called sons of man because they came from man.
The fact that they are called the 'sons of God' again points to their angelic nature. Jesus told us in Mark chapter 12 that angels are not given in marriage nor do they marry. This would mean that angels do not procreate amongst themselves because procreation is the entire point of marriage. These beings who came unto the daughters of man must not have been the result their own species reproducing amongst themselves or they would not have been called the sons of God.
This however puts us in a catch 22 situation. If they can not reproduce, then how did the daughters of man have their children?
We have even more to consider before we get to that answer because now we have to ask who or what was the Nephilim. The original King James translation used the word 'giants' in the place of Nephilim for two reasons; one was because the hybrid offspring were giants and two was that they didn't really know what the word Nephilim meant. Nephilim could possibly mean "fallen ones" but it is a confusing mystery of a word that could also be taken other ways.
Lets just assume for a second that the word Nephilim does mean fallen ones, does that mean that they are the fallen angels? Technically we as humans could call ourselves the Nephilim because we are fallen from birth. A human-alien hybrid race would most definitely be very fallen away from the grace of God. The death of Christ would not even be able to atone for these hybrids because they never had Gods grace to begin with.
The answer to the question of alien reproduction is a mystery that we can now understand. The modern day phenomenon of alien abduction gives us the answer as to how these creatures could take the daughters of man as wives. It is not done by normal sexual intercourse but rather by genetic manipulation and scientific experiments.
Abduction victims all claim to have sexually reproductive test ran on them. Women have eggs taken from them and men have sperm removed. Women then have embryos artificially implanted and they carry the baby for a few weeks before they are taken again and have the baby removed. Another amazing fact in this story and the reason why they do things this way is the aliens have no genitalia!
This takes me back to the thought I had earlier about Adam and Eve not reproducing like the animals. They has no shame when looking at each other naked before they sinned and they had not had sex. Is this because they were originally created without sexual organs?
While the fallen angels who worshiped Lucifer fell into the pits of hell where they are chained away, the angelic creatures who worshiped him on other planets are free to do his bidding. Now, lets get back on the trail of the witchcraft and how it came to humanity.

Witchcraft came here with the visitors in the flying disks according to not only secular records but also according to the Bible. Genesis 6 says the Nephilim were on the earth both in those days and afterward, meaning before and after the flood.
After the flood we see the Nephilim come back into the picture in chapter 13 of the book of Numbers. The Israelites made their way towards to the promised land and sent scouts ahead to check things out. For 40 days they scouted the land and the report they brought back was amazing.
"We can't go up against the people because they are stronger than we are!" "The land we passed through to explore is one that devours its inhabitants, and all the people we saw in it are men of great size. We even saw the Nephilim there." (The offspring of Anak were descended from the Nephilim.) "To ourselves we seemed like grasshoppers, and we must have seemed the same to them."
So here we have established that the alien-human hybrid race is living in the promised land given to the Hebrew nation. It is very possible that many if not all of the inhabitants of the land were of corrupted DNA. The purpose of the flood was to destroy the corrupted blood of humanity and Noah was saved because he was found to be of pure blood.
The hybrid race was taught all kinds of wickedness and perversion and this how it permeated the earth. Now lets look at Deuteronomy 18:9-14 and it says, "When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you, (that being the Canaan land the scouts saw the Nephilim in), do not imitate the detestable customs of those nations. The Lord strictly forbids the practice of divination, telling fortunes, interpreting omens, practice of sorcery, casting spells, consulting a medium or familiar spirit or inquiring of the dead. In short, the Lord forbids us from Witchcraft.
These creatures who come here in UFO's are 100% demonic. They have taken technology that is supposed to only come by the knowledge of God and given it to man so we might destroy ourselves. They have used their corrupted knowledge to deceive the world and we are on the brink of the end of the age. They are demon possessed, they are brainwashed pawns being used by Satan to bring about the kingdom of his child on the earth.
However, the aliens who do not interfere and are only moved to action when God demands it are holy angelic beings. As Jesus said, He was sheep of another fold and I believe that these sheep are not human. The Bible gives an account of these beings intervening on the behalf of His nation Israel in the book of Judges.
Deborah and Barak are atop Mount Tabor preparing to battle with their enemies. As the Israelites are charging down the mountain the Bible says that the Lord threw Sisera, all his charioteers, and all his army into confusion with the sword before Barak. In the next chapter we read the song of Deborah which is a celebration of this great victory. Verse 20 of chapter 5 says that the stars fought from the heavens; the stars fought with Sisera from their courses. I believe that we have a record here of unidentified objects assisting Gods people in battle.
Perry Stone teaches a great lesson on how time travels in cycles and patterns repeat themselves. This specific pattern is in the process of coming full circle right now and I believe an event involving UFO's is coming to the earth very soon. The event is known is prophetic circles as the war of Ezekiel 38 of the war of Gog and Magog.
Without getting very deep into a study of this war I can tell that we are seeing it come together every day in the news. In this war an army of Muslim nations lead by Iran comes against Israel and they are supported by Russia and the EU. America and her allies are not in the picture because they refuse to chose sides. As this massive force comes towards Israel to crush the Holy Land the Lord God declares; "I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, every man's sword shall be against his brother."
The word mountain is a symbolic word in scripture that can mean a nation or a specific place. We know that this sword is not called from America or the English speaking nations because they have forsaken Israel. I believe this call for a sword must come from above and once again the stars will fight from the heavens and confuse the enemies of God!
I don't believe that the creatures piloting the saucers are themselves heavens angels but they are holy angelic beings. I believe that according to Romans chapter 8 these angelic beings have been waiting on pins and needles to show themselves and announce to us that we are not alone!
I do not think that they have done this yet because it is not the appointed time. God has forbidden them from doing this but the rebel aliens defy God and interfere with us anyway. These demonic beings pry on the curiosity and gullibility of mankind to lead us away from the truth while fathering many lies.
We are not alone in the universe. Some of these angelic beings, good or bad might live in our own solar system. I have very good reason to believe that the Satanic ones come from the Moon and from Mars. We however should not fear them because we can take comfort in Jesus. The future of this world may be bleak but the future of Gods believers is very bright!
Amen.
 
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Abba San

Legacy of Elijah [LoE] - Proud Grandfather
Whoa - just a second. I thought this was a forum for 'Bible' study - not for 'I beleive' study. 'I believe' and 'just imagine' can be anything and everything - and usually is. Pulling scriptures to make a point they never intended is not the same as studying scriptures to see what they intended to say. I have a Bible study with new adult believers and seekers. I often have to remind them when they say, "...but I believe," that what matters is not what they believe the Bible says but what the Bible actually says.

UFO enthusiastes would completely disagree with your assumptions. Serious students of the Bible would completely disagree with your assumptions. I think I saw in another post that you were accepted to a good Bible college. Go there and study and learn. Keep a copy of this post - a year or two from now come back and look at it. I think you will see what I am talking about.

God bless you as you grow in His grace and in His word.
 

BornAgain

New Member
Point well taken. I can completely see where you are coming from.
However, we are living at the end of the age and the time has come for these great mysteries to be revealed. The fact of the matter is that the UFO phenomenon is a very real one and people are being taken from their homes against their will and hybrids are being made.
This is the account of Genesis 6. People can not afford any longer to remain in the dark. After we are gone and out of here in the Rapture the world will be faced with a very convincing lie. I completely believe that I am one that has been chosen to bring an end time message that reveals Satan's deception.
God bless you,
- BornAgain
 

Keero

Tribe of Judah Membership Administrator
With no disrespect, I disagree with almost everything you said. Earth being older than 6000 years? Satan having a "son"? Other planets with Satan worshipers? To not go further or take away from what's already in the Bible, you're going to need a lot more scripture to what you have written. Not just inferring what may or may not be there.
 

Abba San

Legacy of Elijah [LoE] - Proud Grandfather
BornAgain - I appreciate your enthusiasm - BUT - aliens in UFO's taking people from their homes and creating hybrids is not what Genesis 6 is about. I do think the UFO phenomena is perpetrated and perpetuated by demonic forces - but that has nothing - nothing - to do with aliens.

Also - again - I agree that it might feel like we are living in the last days - BUT - don't you think Christians watching their loved ones burned at the stake and eaten by wild animals thought the same? Or when the plague swept over Europe and England - or when the Nazis seemed unstoppable? In fact, even here in America, as we approached our Civil War, there were many who believed it was the last days. Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses and several other cults have their roots in that time period and belief. There have been so many times in history when it seemed to be the end - it couldn't get any worse - this has to be it - and it wasn't.

Jesus was clear - we just don't know when it will be. We are to live each day in anticipation and as if it were the day He was coming again. Then we will look back and say, "Wow! I was living in the last days!"

Finally, I'd be careful about taking on Satan. Even the Archangel Michael was careful and decided to leave that to the Lord (Jude 9).

May God bless you as you study His word.
 

Seraph311

New Member
I will add that you need to do an exegesis of the creation account in Genesis in order to provide support for why you believe that the Earth is older than six thousand years old. I myself am an old-earth creationist, but it's not enough to simply say that, "I think that on this issue I lean more towards science." Did you know that there is a group of PHd researchers in geology who believe that science points toward a younger Earth? You must provide a case in both the scientific realm and the realm of scripture.
 

RyanB

Legacy of Elijah Guild Leader
My first thought is...wow. :)

There are so many things here that I could respond to...but fortunately, the only thing I need to respond to is the basis of your train of thought...since everything flows from that. I admit that many things in the bible are open to interpretation...and my views are probably wrong on some things. Let's take a look at the scripture you started with:

John 10:14-16
"I am the good shepherd. I know my own sheep, and they know Me, as the Father knows Me, and I know the Father. I lay down My life for the sheep. But I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. Then there will be one flock, one shepherd."

So, we could take this to mean...
1) Jesus was referring to those who were saved versus unsaved (what I believe)
2) Jesus was making a distinction between the Jews and the Gentiles
3) Some other logical conclusion
4) This brief and coded message is an obvious and blatant reference to the existence of aliens, even if the bible doesn't talk about them anywhere else. In fact, Jesus is only six steps away from Kevin Bacon.

I'm not trying to poke fun with #4 here, I'm just saying that your explanation is so far-fetched, there is no way to describe it. I'm not saying the existence of aliens or another fold is "absolutely logically impossible"...but offering up this passage as evidence is like telling someone they should call their boss and quit their job the moment an envelope titled, "You may already be a winner!" shows up in their mailbox.

I will sum up what is wrong with this far-fetched explanation with two words: Ocham's Razor. The simpler an explanation...the more likely it is true (and the same works conversely, obviously).

People taking things that are "possible" as absolute truth is how cults (some of them "Christian") get started. Ultimately, when it comes to thinking...I believe there are two types of people out there:
1) People who take facts, evidence, etc., and come to conclusions based off of those, and
2) People who make up which conclusions they want and then scramble to find any supporting evidence, while ignoring everything else

Door #1 leads to truth (seek and ye shall find!). Door #2...does not.

That's really the only point I will talk on...because everything else logically derives from that. I apologize if I'm coming off as mean, here...because that is not my intention.

PS: You should check out The Knowing in theaters...you'll like it. Then again, something tells me you've already seen it. :cool:
 

David's Sling

New Member
I have to concur with RyanB on this. There is not nearly enough evidence based on one phrase of scripture, with no supporting context or ANY other references to such.

I am not saying that there is not life elsewhere, but your argument is not compelling in the least. I personally BELIEVE that it is highly unlikely. However, I do not have proof of course and so that is an opinion of mine. Even if there is alien life out there, I find the concepts of UFOs, abductions, hybrids, etc. EXPONENTIALLY less likely, considering the accepted Biblical age for the earth and many other scientific and observational factors.

Please, never take scripture out of context to prove a point. It is an insult to the truth and authority of God's Word. This is something i feel very strongly about.
 

Zeena

New Member
Besides, if they're taking people against thier wills then they are sinning and in need of the Saviour.. Ergo, of THIS fold-hehe

James 3:16-18
For where jealousy and faction are, there is confusion and every vile deed.
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without variance, without hypocrisy. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace for them that make peace.
 

dorkelf

Active Member
I have to concur with RyanB on this. There is not nearly enough evidence based on one phrase of scripture, with no supporting context or ANY other references to such.

I am not saying that there is not life elsewhere, but your argument is not compelling in the least. I personally BELIEVE that it is highly unlikely. However, I do not have proof of course and so that is an opinion of mine. Even if there is alien life out there, I find the concepts of UFOs, abductions, hybrids, etc. EXPONENTIALLY less likely, considering the accepted Biblical age for the earth and many other scientific and observational factors.

Please, never take scripture out of context to prove a point. It is an insult to the truth and authority of God's Word. This is something i feel very strongly about.
I think you expressed exactly how I feel about the matter, except I do not believe there is an 'accepted' Biblical age of the Earth. A young earth interpretation may be accepted by a majority of people in certain denominations, perhaps. But many Christians of both the scholarly and non-scholarly type disagree about the interpretation of Genesis in this regard, and discussions on these forums have revealed that not everyone here, myself included, accepts a young earth interpretation as a foregone conclusion.
 

ewoksrule

Active Member
If you do not accept the authority of the Bible in Genesis 1-6 then how or why would you accept it as authority in Salvation? Think of the lesson you are teaching all who read this forums...Trust Jesus, believe in Him, but forget about Genesis where it says the world was created in 6 days, that part is wrong and not an authority. Mankind and natural explanations have it right on that topic.. yikes! scary
 
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dorkelf

Active Member
If you do not accept the authority of the Bible in Genesis 1-6 then how or why would you accept it as authority in Salvation? Think of the lesson you are teaching all who read this forums...Trust Jesus, believe in Him, but forget about Genesis where it says the world was created in 6 days, that part is wrong and not an authority. Mankind and natural explanations have it right on that topic.. yikes! scary
I do accept the authority of Genesis, and if the Hebrew word that is translated as 'day' could only mean a literal 24 hour day, then that's what I would believe. However the word can and did have a larger context. It does not in English, but it often did in ancient Hebrew. It could also have meant literally 24 hours, and I accept that as a possibility. I just think its more likely that it was meant in a larger context, and many other Christians and Bible scholars have reached the same conclusion. If you disagree with me, fine, we can debate it, but please don't accuse me of rejecting the Bible or question my salvation.
 

ewoksrule

Active Member
I am not questioning your salvation and I am sorry if it came across that way. I did not mean it to be a personal attack as I am responding to this whole thread not just your comment.

The word for day is used over 2000 times in the Bible and I don't buy the argument that in 1999 of them we take it for what it says but some how in Gen1 it all of the sudden means millions of years. If we can't take the Bible for what it says about some things then why trust it for the other matters like Salvation.

The fact that any Christians (bible scholars or not) do not trust the authority of Gen1 is a sad sad case and a major reason for the failing of Christianity in America. We have more Christian resources in America then any other Nation has ever had and yet we are becoming less and less a Christian Nation every day. I attribute alot of that to this concept right here. Teaching that the Bible can not be accepted as truth for what it says in one part makes it fail in all others in the minds of those who are looking to us for answers and truth.

It really does disgust me that anyone comes to these forums and furthers this notion that mankind, natural processes, and millions of years somehow trumps the WORD of God that says it was 6days. and Jesus Himself who confirmed that in the NT. The example that this shows to the lurkers that read these threads is so destructive. I do not mean to be attacking to these people but I grieve in my Spirit over it and pray that the church can come back to a solid foundation based on the Word of God and its teachings of Creation.
 
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Abba San

Legacy of Elijah [LoE] - Proud Grandfather
dorkelf is correct on this one. I happen to be a young earth/six day creationist - but the word for day, yom, is used much more widely in the Hebrew. Even the NASB - which is the best word-for-word translation out there - translates the word as long time, year, age, even forever numerous times. Someone who takes the Bible literally can legitimately have a different understanding of the length of time in creation.

A great book on creation - I think the best book on the subject - that I recommend to anyone is The Genesis Record, by Henry Morris.
 

ewoksrule

Active Member
I agree that Yom is able to mean those things in Hebrew but not in the way it is used in Gen1. The genesis account states it to be a day and to read the account from beginning to end and somehow come up with millions of years is preposterous. You are trying to fit man's thinking, and natural processes into the Word.

# Outside Genesis 1, yom is used with a number 359 times, and each time it means an ordinary day. Why would Genesis 1 be the exception?

# Outside Genesis 1, yom is used with the word “evening” or “morning” 23 times. “Evening” and “morning” appear in association, but without yom, 38 times. All 61 times the text refers to an ordinary day. Why would Genesis 1 be the exception?

# In Genesis 1:5, yom occurs in context with the word “night.” Outside of Genesis 1, “night” is used with yom 53 times, and each time it means an ordinary day. Why would Genesis 1 be the exception? Even the usage of the word “light” with yom in this passage determines the meaning as ordinary day.



Martin Luther said:

I have often said that whoever would study Holy Scripture should be sure to see to it that he stays with the simple words as long as he can and by no means departs from them unless an article of faith compels him to understand them differently. For of this we must be certain: no clearer speech has been heard on Earth than what God has spoken.
 
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dorkelf

Active Member
It really does disgust me that anyone comes to these forums and furthers this notion that mankind, natural processes, and millions of years somehow trumps the WORD of God that says it was 6days. and Jesus Himself who confirmed that in the NT. The example that this shows to the lurkers that read these threads is so destructive. I do not mean to be attacking to these people but I grieve in my Spirit over it and pray that the church can come back to a solid foundation based on the Word of God and its teachings of Creation.
I'm sure you have the best intentions, but I recommend that you approach arguments that disgust you with caution. When you get your emotions tied up in an argument (disgust is a very strong emotion) it is easy to let things come out that can be damaging to others and a stumbling block to others, especially those lurkers you are concerned about. I'm glad that you pray for unity of believers. Unity will not be effected much by whether or not I think its more likely that a word in Genesis means one thing or another. But it is certainly effected by how arguments and discussions are approached.
 

ewoksrule

Active Member
Unity will not be effected much by whether or not I think its more likely that a word in Genesis means one thing or another.
Well I disagree, unity will be greatly affected by Christians who promote the idea that the Bible does not speak clearly about the origin of life, death, sin and give people reason to doubt the authority of the Word.

Your advice to be cautious in what we post in forums discussions is a good point and I agree with that.
 
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Stc95

Tribe of Judah Guild Wars Chapter Leader
I agree, if we have one Christian going around saying the Earth is millions of years old, and then another one going around saying it's only 6,000 years old people are going to think that Christians are stupid and don't know what they are talking about. Think from their point of view, would you really "join" a group who's members aren't all on the same page?
 
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