61 years later

Stc95

Stc95

Tribe of Judah Guild Wars Chapter Leader
Today 61 years ago about 90,000 people lost their lives, 2days ago 61 years ago, another 200,000 people died. Today is the 61 anniversary of the Atomic Bombs droped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in World War Two. In three days 2 cities were destroyed and 290,000 people died and many more were scarred for life and lost their homes.
Every year on August 6, the city of Hiroshima holds a Peace Memorial Ceremony to pray for the peaceful repose of the victims, for the abolition of nuclear weapons, and for lasting world peace. During that ceremony, the mayor issues a Peace Declaration directed toward the world at large.
6 days later the Empire of Japan unconditionally surrendered to the Allies forces ending World War Two. Many people call this day V-J or V-P day for Victory Over Japan or Victory in the Pacific
 
They were warned days ahead of time. Although I still feel bad for the dead and wounded, they had a chance to escape and they didn't. Japan still wouldn't have given up if we hadn't threatened to take out Tokyo next, but if it was me, Tokyo would have been first.
 
only by showing the emperor how his life was in danger could they force him to surrender. otherwise we would have had to eliminate every part of their culture.
 
But consider, for a moment, a few points:

As for receiving advanced warning: Perhaps they couldn't evacuate? If Katrina taught us anything, it's that we shouldn't assume that people have sufficient means of transportation to evacuate a given area. Also, communication systems and protocols in these areas may not have been advanced enough to warn all residents.

Also consider that civilians were killed in these attacks. What military sites were targeted in Hiroshima? In Nagasaki?

The option of using atomic weapons had to be weighed against an island invasion. Some people believe we should have used conventional weapons. Others agree with the use of nuclear weapons, but hold that our military should have targeted military sites and avoided civilian areas. Others agree with the decision the US government handed down.

I'm not posting my personal opinion on this topic. I've casually studied Japanese history and culture. My best friend is married to a Japanese-American. The use of atomic weapons on Japanese targets is still a point of contention. Before you casually post that you have no remorse for the civilians killed in the blasts, spend some time reading history books from both countries. Both history texts will be slanted by bias. History books always are.

Between the pages of history, you'll find that the situation is very, very complex. There were other options; it wasn't an "either-or" situation. And don't believe for a moment that those responsible for the decision didn't second-guess themselves for years to come. That kind of decision--especially given the outcome--could haunt a person for the rest of their lives, even if they would still make the same choice given the opportunity again.

And regardless of your opinion on the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, please show respect to those who died in the attacks.
 
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I am really sorry for the innocent people that died...

BUT...


I am pretty sure they killed a bunch of our people at Pearl Harbor first.
And we would have lost so many troops in a ground invasion, and may not have ever won the war.
 
aka Ash said:
I am really sorry for the innocent people that died...

BUT...


I am pretty sure they killed a bunch of our people at Pearl Harbor first.
And we would have lost so many troops in a ground invasion, and may not have ever won the war.
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Exactly.
 
And regardless of your opinion on the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, please show respect to those who died in the attacks.
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I don't care about their culture. They refused to surrender, and millions on both sides would have been killed had we not made them surrender immediately and just fought conventionally. This was the only way.
 
the fact was that every japaneese would have resisted had we cut the head off of the japaneese empire. For years after WW2 they were still collecting weapons civilians had stockpiled to oppose americans.
 
This is actually a topic that historians have debated for the past... 61 years. Was it necessary? Was it the best way to go? What other options could have been more effective?

Keep in mind that the US projections using conventional warfare were that 1 million American soldiers would die, and multiples of that number of Japanese military and civilians. A war in Japan would have likely left more than 3 million dead, and though the effects of the two nuclear weapons were drastic, my personal opinion is that given the two alternatives, 290,000 of theirs and zero of ours dead is a far better alternative than 1 million of ours and more than 2 million of theirs.

The real question, to me, isn't whether we should have used the nukes to end the war. The real question is whether those two targets were the best targets to minimize loss of life, maximize military impact, and still end the war. That, I have no idea, but I trust that Truman and his staff made the best decision they could given the level of intelligence that they had.

However, to just say, "Forget them, they had it coming because they wouldn't surrender," is at best a statement made from ignorance. Human life should not be treated that lightly, especially considering that the majority of those people were either Shinto or Buddhist, and it's likely the majority of those folks were literally bombed to hell. That's a harrowing thought to me.
 
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1. the emporer's life was in danger from the beginning of the war. The doolittle raid showes how tokyo was a target

2.
Forget them, they had it coming because they wouldn't surrender
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i am really shocked to hear that... how would you like it if you were killed in an instant or if you slowly and painfully died from the bombs and people are just brushing you off like nothing mattered. dont you care that our men died in Pearl Harbor, Iwo Jima, Okinawa?, well then why cant you care for the people we WERE fighting!?! if it had been the other way around i bet every single american today or two days ago would take a moment of silence and be partiotic today. but just becuase its from a different culture and nation makes it ok to disregard THE HUMAN LIFE!?!?!? i mean come on!

3. at Pearl Harbor we only lost 1,138 men i morn for those people but 290,000 and 1,138 is a huge difference, at iwo jima we lost 6,821, at okinawa we lost 72,000 men. those were the battle that we had the most losts on in the pacific, and that was over a course of 5 years. we lost 79,959 over the couses of 5 years, and in three days we killed 290,000.

i take this seriously i love history but i also respect the outcomes and loses of both sides of war. im sorry if i seemed to bash people but this isnt what i expected from a christian group.
 
Stc95 said:
2. i am really shocked to hear that... how would you like it if you were killed in an instant or if you slowly and painfully died from the bombs and people are just brushing you off like nothing mattered. dont you care that our men died in Pearl Harbor, Iwo Jima, Okinawa?, well then why cant you care for the people we WEREfighting!?! if it had been the other way around i bet every single american today or two days ago would take a moment of silence and be partiotic today. but just becuase its from a different culture and nation makes it ok to disregard THE HUMAN LIFE!?!?!? i mean come on!
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That's what he's saying. Take a look back and read it again. :)
Pastori said:
However, to just say, "Forget them, they had it coming because they wouldn't surrender," is at best a statement made from ignorance.
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As for the comparison to Katrina, many people down there who stayed did so of their own volition. They had the means, but didn't act on it. I don't know much about Hiroshima/Nagasaki, but if what you guys have said is true and they did have advanced warning to evacuate, then I agree with Phantom: I grieve for the loss of life, but a good portion of the burden of blame rests on their own shoulders.
 
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My sentiments are with Ash's and Bill's posts. It was a sad but necessary action much like what's happening to Lebanon. What galls me though is the protesters outside the base every year at this time. I just can't comprehend people who would hold up picket signs outside the entrances of our bases protesting the existence of and use of our nuclear weapons. It really upsets the troops to see this. They deserve nothing but our support for what they have to endure for our way of life. I have buddies leaving their families to go risk their lives in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Korea all the time. Working many extra hours a day during times of crises for no extra money and then they come home and see protestors for something they had no part in themselves.
 
On a more personal level, my dad is a WWII vet who was stationed as a combat medic in Japan. He was actually flown over the blasts sites. Had it not been for those bombs, the likelihood of my father surviving would have been close to non existant, and I would have never been born. I'm not trying to justify anything, it was just an interesting thought. It was a terrible tragedy, the whole war was, and all wars still are.

I am in agreement that we should respect all human life and the people who defend our great nation. The irony of the protester is that they may not even have the right to protest if it were not for our troops.
 
A little thing about Katrina...This probably is the wrong place, but it was brought up here.

In Japan...we do not know if they were able to evacuate...that is true. And I am terribly sorry for the loss of civilian life. A thought real quick. We at at war with Islam, what if they want to end the war and Nuke us? (God forbid, let's pray it doesn't happen). What is the difference? We hold 911 special as a country...so I imagine Japan should do the same.


Lousiana...where I live...I have very strong opinions on this one, so excuse me in advance.

Ray Nagin (New Orlean's Mayor) had advanced warning, Kathleen Blanco (Louisiana's Govenor) had advanced warning. George Bush (doh! We ALL know him...yay!!!) had advanced warning. George Bush couldn't act without the govenor requesting it. Nagin had somewhere aroung 1000 busses that he LET get flooded out. He then had Blanco get busses from all over the state...later... to evacuate, after the fact. My kids were out of school for days...no way to get there, and schools were used for evacuees. Nagin stuck his people in the Superdome, I just have to laugh. It was overcrowded, disease ran amuck, crime, it was a disaster. There were interviews being done with people...they said point blank, they were not leaving their homes! It was a tragedy and I prayed for those people daily, but they were foolish. Funny thing is they fixed the breaches in the levees and here comes Rita...and people were shocked that the levees broke again...why were they shocked? they were told the levees were going to break. New Orleans citizens shot at the National Guard sent there to rescue them, they were stealing TV's...but had no electricity. A friend of mine in the National Guard was shot. If Nagin and Blanco hadn't been so full of pride, a majority of those people could have gotten out BEFORE Katrina. Ask Bush for help (being Democrats, they couldn't possibly do that), use those 1000 busses for something other than underwater decorations, and make the evacuation mandatory (which they didn't do until after the hurricane destroyed the city.)

I am not comparing God's wrath towards Sodom and Gomorrah to New Orleans, But in all 3 cities people were told to leave, and didn't, They were told a disaster was coming, and ignored it, What did they expect? Am I Sorry that it happened? Absolutely, and my prayers were with those people. But you kinda have to assume if you live under the sea, one day you are gonna get wet, and if you don't want to have to swim, leave when the water is coming.

Just my opinions,
 
I have very little sympathy for New Orleans, and I wasn't overly impressed with the city when we went there one night while we were down in Mississippi doing some rebuilding.

Nagin...ugh. :p
After the bus ordeal, plus his excellent publicity work afterwards ("Chocolate City", anyone?), he's not very high on my list of people I'd like to meet.
 
Yeah...then again, so did Bush, and almost everyone I talk to seems to hate him with a passion. (I think the guy's made some questionable choices in his administration, but he's not too bad.)
 
I think Bush is actually a great President but the Media is Controlled by Liberals so people are going to hate him since he will get 0 Coverage when he does something right or where he was proven right such as WMDs which they did find in Iraq but the press did not release that info did they?
 
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