So you celebrate Easter...

[Dark Virtue]

Please, its still has moral values that are not fiction right? The point is you were really out of line by saying Christians enjoy wrapping presents, and Hiding easter eggs. More so than they do recognizing what you call "God's holy days". From all I've heard God has never told us to celebrate easter or christmas. But man does enjoy celebrating them in the name of God. The only day God specificly has said to set aside is Sunday. You know that day you go to church on?

Oh boy, where do I begin?

I seriously have no idea where you're going with the whole Grinch thing, so if you actually have a point, please make it.

You may call me out of line, but I assert that YOU are out of line. You are the one claiming to be a Christian, yet you have no idea what God's Holy Days are. You, instead, adopt perverted holidays that are undeniably pagan in origin and think they are godly.

The only day God specificly has said to set aside is Sunday. You know that day you go to church on?

Oh I'd love for you to cite chapter and verse on this one.

The actual day God set aside was the Sabbath, SATURDAY. NOT Sunday. See Watcher's post above.

So if you actually have scriptural reference that shows God set aside SUNDAY, please show it to me.

 

[DarthDapor]

funny story bout that, for jews sunday was still after sataurday they just looked at it as the last day of the week. Pretty crazy huh? But still, The whole grinch thing does hov a point. That is that even if Christmas (or easter for that matter) is not just about eggs and presents. Its celebrating the birth/ressurection of our savior. I'd think even you would've realized that!

 

[Dark Virtue]

funny story bout that, for jews sunday was still after sataurday they just looked at it as the last day of the week. Pretty crazy huh? But still, The whole grinch thing does hov a point. That is that even if Christmas (or easter for that matter) is not just about eggs and presents. Its celebrating the birth/ressurection of our savior. I'd think even you would've realized that!

Sunday was still after Saturday? What exactly are you going on about?

The Sabbath was Saturday, specifically, from sunset Friday until sunset Saturday. Sunday never came into play.

What day do modern day Jews worship on? SATURDAY, not Sunday.

It was Christians that changed the day God set forth, not the Jews.

I realize what Christmas and Easter represent. (this is when I miss Marcy, she would appreciate this...) Put a bow on a pig and what do you have? A pig, it doesn't matter how pretty the bow is. The point you miss, or willfully ignore, is that these two holidays are steeped in pagan traditions and rituals. Christ warned against being OF the world. That is what these holidays represent, a melding of Christianity and pagan traditions. It's like sugar coating a pill to make it go down easier. That is precisely what Constantine did.

So why not observe/recognize the days GOD actually set forth? Sure, you're not COMMANDED to, but do you really need to be? Do you need to be COMMANDED to do the right thing or be a good person? If you (meaning Christians in general) would actually take the time to look at these festivals, you would see they have great meaning and significance. But, most Christians opt for the sugar (pagan) coated holidays that are fun and colorful.

 

[DarthDapor]

Marcy?
Well I'm not sure about that one. The jews today may worship on Satuarday they use to worship over an entire weekend. Now I really don't want to argue over a callendar (do you?).
Actually if you put a bow on a pig its not a pig, its now a prize winner!!! Serriously, whats wrong with setting aside a day for Lord. Do you want to compete and see who con go the most years without celebrating christmas or some thing?

 

[Genesis1315]

Off Topic

this is when I miss Marcy, she would appreciate this...)

I miss her too And during Benny Hinn Conversations

On Topic

So why not observe/recognize the days GOD actually set forth? Sure, you're not COMMANDED to, but do you really need to be? Do you need to be COMMANDED to do the right thing or be a good person? If you (meaning Christians in general) would actually take the time to look at these festivals, you would see they have great meaning and significance. But, most Christians opt for the sugar (pagan) coated holidays that are fun and colorful.

Mark the day on the calendar....I agree with DV
Now, do enjoy celebrating the birth and resurection of our Lord, but the Jewish holidays hold a lot of meaning, both of the Judeo-Christian past and a deeper meaning of the sacrifice of Christ. Just scratching the surface of Passover...it is amazing to see how much Jesus fulfilled the law.

I will post a link to a recent God's Frozen Chosen Bible study that looked at Passover. It was very enlightening.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Let's see...I've gone without Christmas's more years than you've been alive, so you've got some catching up to do

Where are you getting this entire weekend stuff from?

 

[Dark Virtue]

Off Topic



I miss her too And during Benny Hinn Conversations

On Topic



Mark the day on the calendar....I agree with DV
Now, do enjoy celebrating the birth and resurection of our Lord, but the Jewish holidays hold a lot of meaning, both of the Judeo-Christian past and a deeper meaning of the sacrifice of Christ. Just scratching the surface of Passover...it is amazing to see how much Jesus fulfilled the law.

I will post a link to a recent God's Frozen Chosen Bible study that looked at Passover. It was very enlightening.

WOOHOO!

Just for the record, as a Christian, I didn't observe Easter or Christmas. I did, however, observe/celebrate the Holy Days God set forth.

That's one of the reasons I take an interest in this subject.

 

[Azzie]

Is it just me or does DV and I think like, in the same way? We should take a personality/thinking test and see if our results compare

I was always skeptical on the exact days which these holidays have been celebrated, and even Sunday. Most of the holidays we have ARE pagan in origin, simply converted into having a Christian meaning.

But personally I fail to see why it's that big a deal; a day is chosen to celebrate a particular event, so it's the remembrance of the event that counts, not the exact date I don't think. I don't see God setting forth exact dates, but rather saying "celebrate this event."

"Do this in remembrance of me..." not so much "Do this at this time in this way at this moment in remembrance of me."

About why Jesus and his disciples followed the Jewish holidays: I'll admit I'm not entirely sure how to say this, but I'll give it a shot...
As someone before mentioned, they did it because they were Jewish; it was a cultural thing as well as a religious thing. As for the religious concept, Jesus is Lord of the sabbath, and any other day for that matter, so techinically he can change the rules any time he wants to. But I feel that he followed them more because of his cultural identity; many times Jesus "breaks" the laws of the sabbath, like healing the various people and allowing his disciples to pick grain because the religious and spiritual aspect of the holy days are his decision, and are a higher priority than the cultural aspect.
What we do, then, is follow Jesus' example of not being bound by the law, but rather by what is loving and right.
WWJD if he was going to church and a person nearby was hit by a car?

 

[Dark Virtue]

Is it just me or does DV and I think like, in the same way?

From you, I will take that as a huge compliment

"Do this in remembrance of me..." not so much "Do this at this time in this way at this moment in remembrance of me."

About why Jesus and his disciples followed the Jewish holidays: I'll admit I'm not entirely sure how to say this, but I'll give it a shot...
As someone before mentioned, they did it because they were Jewish; it was a cultural thing as well as a religious thing.

I think these two thoughts go hand in hand tighter than you believe.

There was a REASON Jesus observed these Holy Days, and I think it goes way beyond a cultural thing or a racial thing. The answer is RIGHT THERE in front of you. I'm afraid if I say it myself, it will cheapen the discovery.

Ponder that question...if Jesus did everything for a reason and not just because of tradition (how many traditions did he violate anyway?) then there had to be a reason. What was his reasoning?

 

[Arkanjel]

Ponder that question...if Jesus did everything for a reason and not just because of tradition (how many traditions did he violate anyway?) then there had to be a reason. What was his reasoning?

Jesus did everything he did, because he was fulfilling the law so as to be the unblemished sacrifice to atone for our sins.

 

[Azzie]

Hm, I'm not too sure what you're asking...

Which two thoughts, exactly? The passage you quoted from me contains several possibilities...

But I'll continue to think about it in the mean time

 

[Dark Virtue]

Jesus did everything he did, because he was fulfilling the law so as to be the unblemished sacrifice to atone for our sins.

What, exactly, is your definition of fulfill?

Because, to quote a certain Spaniard, "I don't think that word means what you think it means".

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished"

(Matthew 5:17-18)

Keep in mind the context here. If Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law, why would he say in the next breath, to complete it? Abolish means to end the observance or effect of.

v17 uses the word pleroo for fulfill. One of the definitions of pleroo is, "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be"

So reading these verses IN CONTEXT, Jesus said not to think that the came to end the observance of the Law or the Prophets, but to make sure God's will & His laws are obeyed as they should be.

There's a huge difference there.

 

[Dark Virtue]

I meant to say that Jesus observed God's Holy Days as a rememberance. In doing so, he would have observed them whether or not he was a Jew or whether or not he was commanded to.

 

[DarthDapor]

Let's see...I've gone without Christmas's more years than you've been alive, so you've got some catching up to do

Where are you getting this entire weekend stuff from?

How do you know that?
Because thats how it was celebrated in the first century. Back to what I was saying though we don't need to argue over a callendar!

 

[Dark Virtue]

How do you know that?

Because I looked at your bio and saw that you are only 14, which is why I give you WAY more slack than someone older and wiser. No offense, but at 14, you have no idea how much you don't know.

Because thats how it was celebrated in the first century. Back to what I was saying though we don't need to argue over a callendar!

I am asking you to back that up with some sort of support. Again, no offense, but your track record on quoting things is pretty bad. So please, don't make assertions that you have no intention, or are incapable, of backing up, because I'm not about to just take your word for it.

 

[DarthDapor]

That's not right! Why does it display my age on here? Its discrimination! (Sigh!) In case your wandering I learned that in a Bible study. Now if we could stop argueing over a callendar we could get back on topic. Unless "you want a mod to give you a slap on the wrist."

 

[Dark Virtue]

That's not right! Why does it display my age on here? Its discrimination! (Sigh!) In case your wandering I learned that in a Bible study. Now if we could stop argueing over a callendar we could get back on topic. Unless "you want a mod to give you a slap on the wrist."

Dude, it doesn't help you admitted in another thread you were only 14

 

[Azzie]

I think it's an issue of how strictly Christians should obey God's commands, Dapor. Doesn't matter whether or not it's about a calendar or the difference between "murder" and "killing."

 

[DarthDapor]

I never mentioned murder (could you explain that to me?). And DV I've only ever mentioned that in a thread before, and it wasn't here! I'd like know which thread you saw that in, and why you were in my bio in the first place?

 

[Azzie]

Like I said, the issue about how literally we interpret the Bible. My reference to murder was an example of how important literal vs. non-literal can be regardless of how insignificant a subject may seem (like calendar.)

In the NIV version of Exodus, commandment "thou shalt not murder" is often taken as "thou shalt not KILL" which is very, very different from murder. (there are different wordings, so this is just used as an example)

Taken literally, "murder" is taking the life of another person in defiance against the law set by a government, while killing is taking one's life in any fashion, be it through war or self defense. That being the case, if there is no law against murder, that means killing people left and right is, by the Commandment, technically ok.

This is just an example (er, an extreme one too i might add ), but you see how powerful a small misinterpretation of words can be? It can mean that Christians are not allowed to join the military or even kill in self-defense because killing is wrong, or it can mean Christians are allowed to kill anyone they see if there is no law against murder.

Anyway, about the age thing, Dapor...there is nothing wrong about being young (I'm only 18 myself.) The issue is how well arguments are presented, how seriously (or appropriately humorous) things are taken, and simply how experienced and knowledgable a person is in regards to a particular topic. And by general experience, younger people tend to (meaning there are many exceptions) take things in too light a fashion (especially when a complex argument is trying to be made) or they simply don't have the education or experience to really make a sound argument.
Additionally, as a teenager myself, I have an obiligation to respect people with more experience and more knowledge than myself.

Aaaaaaaaaaaanyway...back on topic....
Tradition as a whole seemed to have been "desecrated" by Paul in his letters about circumcision (arg, someone help me find the references; im short on time ), even though Jesus was circumcized too. The exact reasons why Jesus followed them may be the same reason Paul circumcized Timothy even after preaching against circumcision.
As I said, it's a method of ministry..."to the weak I became weak....to all men I became all things so by all means I might save some."
So in my reasoning, Jesus became traditionally-Jewish to win the Jews, not because it was wrong to do otherwise.