Concerning Hell

Jango

Jango

New Member
On another Christian forum ( I won't give a name, because some aspects may not be appropriate. ) someone brought up this website that consists of eighteen "chapters" ( each being one page. ) and four-five appendixes. It's very interesting, and while I am just starting the third chapter I would suggest it.
 
yea/

i know that words change, and its always good practice to look biblically at what was said, at the time it was said to the people it was said to. that way you can understand what it would mean to us today.

does that make sense?? *L*

sealcomm
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]It shows that the word "eternal" didn't mean what it does now, so people may not be in hell forever.
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And that would be against Gods nature. Actually, most of the content on hellbusters site is contrary to Gods nature.

It is Gods nature to be faithful and accept our decisions made of our freewill. He has created, what we have termed Hell, a place where people can spend eternity without the God they have freely choosen to rejected.

If it were only temporary, then another aspect of God is compromised, and that is our freewill to freely to choose to be with God. My choice to follow God on faith is useless if it doesn't matter if I choose to or not. If I spent my 80 years here saying to hell with God, spent a little time in hell but not eternally, then God has broken his covenant with those who have accepted Jesus as the only way to the father. This also makes God a liar.

I've heard all kinds of justifications from people. The most current I've heard is that God has sent us here to Earth to experience sin in any way, shape or form we wish. Then we will spend some time in hell to cleanse ourselve and then spend eternity in heavan.

In the end, its people trying to justify living life how ever they wish and not how God intended. They reject salvation in Christ, hope their sins aren't great enough that it keeps them out of heavan for too long, maybe, they even hope that their good deeds are good enough to get them into heavan sooner.

These people are going to be suprised when Jesus says to them, I know you not, get out of my sight.

The only way to accept their point of view being right is to believe that the Judgement at the White Throne has already happened, and we will no longer be judged. Oddly enough, I found that these people subscribe to that believe. That we have already faced judgement and are now free to do what ever we want.

That certainly does not follow what Jesus taught.

---edit---

Considering how unpopular the topic of hell is, doesn't it make sense that alot of people will try and bring it back in a good light. Look, it isn't so bad, don't worry about it. I wouldn't gamble my eternity on it.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Gods_Peon @ Aug. 19 2004,3:10)]He has created, what we have termed Hell, a place where people can spend eternity without the God they have freely choosen to rejected.
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Can you give me some verses on this?

Jude 1:7 clearly states an example of "eternal" fire. This is the same Greek word that is used for "everlasting" fire and "everlasting" punishment as used in Matthew 18:8 and Matthew 25:41,46 (Notice hell is "everlasting punishment", and not "everlasting punishing". The punishment is eternal in its results, not in its duration.

Also, in Matthew 25:41, the "everlasting fire" is prepared for the devil and his angels, and not prepared by the devil and his angels). The fire and brimstone destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, and turned them into ashes (Gen.19:24). Sodom and Gomorrah was an example of what would happen to the wicked (Luke 17:29-30, 2 Peter 2:6, Jude 1:7). We know that God did not remove Sodom and Gomorrah to burn them somewhere else because Abraham could see the smoke going up "as the smoke of a furnace" (Genesis 19:28). The cities are not burning today because when everything was burned and turned into ashes, the fire, having no fuel left, went out. Another example of "everlasting destruction" (2 Thes.1:9) is; once a match is burned, it is destroyed forever, but is not being forever destroyed. The phrase "eternal torment" does not appear in the Bible.

Does "forever" always mean never ending? No. In the Bible, "for ever" is used where it has the meaning of lasting only as long as the duration of the event or as long as the man lives. Jonah calls "three days and three nights", "forever" (Jonah 1:17; 2:6). Hannah clearly explains what she means by the term "forever" when she says in verse 28, "as long as he liveth he shall be lent to the Lord" (1 Sam. 1:22,28). Here "forever" is "ten generations" (Deut. 23:3). "Forever" obviously is as long as David lived (1 Chron. 28:4). Leprosy lasted for Gehazi as long as he lived (2 Kings 5:27). It’s apparent that the meaning of the word is determined by the context in which it is used (Exo. 21:5-6, Deut. 15:16-17, Philem. 1:10,11,15). Revelation 20:10 can agree with Ezekiel 28:18 by interpreting "for ever" as meaning "as long as they last in the fire or until the fire has burned them up completely." This is a good example of letting scripture interpret itself.

Isn't the definition of "hell" something we've been arguing over?
 
What you call a "Misinterpretation" is more of a "Misunderstanding" then anything.

You are saying, since Jonah (and others) used the specifically defined term forever to describe events that are general in intent (ie...a great length of time), that the specifically defined term must not mean what it is defined to mean. Confused?

Example: I get onto a congested highway and say, wow, there are sure a lot of cars on the highway.

I used a very specifically defined term, cars, to describe a general analysis. Certainly, I don't mean just the cars, but also all the trucks, vans, buses, suv, pedestrians, bikes, basically all vehicles in general. The reverse is true also, I can use very general terms to describe something very specific.

Example: I just bought a new vehicle.

Did I buy all types of vehicles? Or just one type of vehicle? Is a vehicle different from a car? Is a vehicle different from any mode of transportation. It is within the context that we explain away our colliquisms.

Using time for example, I can say: I waited in the hospitals emergency waiting room for ever.

I certainly am not saying I was there until the end of time. I am talking about the sense of time passing, it seemed that time dragged its feet and I waited longer then I expected to be seen by a doctor. The same is true with Jonah. Three days was forever in the same sense that maybe 4 hours in the waiting room was also forever.

The bible is not full of misinterpretations, it is full of colliquisms. And only through dillegent and prayerfull study will you be able to disern such things.
 
So I will not be able to understand the "true" meaning using logic and reason?  I think the anyone can truly understand the bible without divine aid.

Believe it or not, I TOTALLY agree with your last point.  

But please take note, I didn't say the Bible was full of misinterpretations, I said it was full of mistranslations.  Big difference.  WE are responsible for misinterpreting anything that is in the Bible.  Granted, the Bible doesn't help in this matter.

The truth is right there for all to see.  But that's the kicker, do people REALLY want to see the truth that is there?  That's what we're discussing in this thread.  People hold this very detailed view of hell, but where did it come from?  It certainly didn't come from the Bible.  So what will people do with the truth once they're presented with it?

What will YOU do?  You had a preconceived notion of heaven and hell before this thread.  Have those notions changed?  Anyone care to answer that question?
 
I did and I have given it less and less thought of late. Especially now. I do not know what hell is like, I can only reference what was here about is:

Luke 16
22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[3] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

There are many biblical references. But I think the key point here is torment. Whatever that torment is. Does put sadness and dread in my heart for any who suffer it.
 
This may be hard to understand, but I’ll give it a shot. And God has me warming up to you DV.

For what ever reason God has been doing some serious work in my life and with some personal things, IU believe he wants smoothed out before I start Leadership ministry this fall.

With that said I think of it less and less because I am focusing more and more on my Work for the Lord and a passion for this work the Lord has placed me in. It is not something he has put in my heart, to worry about heaven or hell, He place in my heart a burden of leadership and servant hood to my Family and Church family at the moment. And even as I write this I am listening to walk by Faith and thru out our discussions on this boards is sums up everything I feel we are talking about.

I walk by faith

I do not pretend to know everything and as much as an intellect I once was I pray and I try and live as Faithful as possible.

My thoughts on heaven are this, I do not know buddy. I read that Jesus said hat there were many mansion in heaven. (This is my horribly butchered version.) But if we will each have a mansion. Father, Mother Sister Brother on daughter. I can agree that probably means a New Body.

Now I am not debating semantics, just tell you what I think. I believe this because the bible supports it. We all can not live in the same House hold, and if our bodies are a temple this. This stands to reason. And if there is supposed to be three tier. One for worshiper, doers and Kings then it stands to reason we will be involved in what ever the Lord has planed for us.

Me I feel I will be as curious as you, and I have a list of questions for Father God

Simply put, God has given me a burden for what I need to be accomplishing here and now. I know I use the saying a lot. But its all about being about my Fathers Business
God can worry about the rest
 
I meant I think Less and less about the details of heaven or hell. I think more about what God wants we to do on Earth. I spend lots of time waiting on the Lord!
 
Ah, well you had me until the second post.

Personally, I respect your answer of "I don't know". Not enough people will tell you the truth that they just don't know.

Maybe it's my background, but I need the details. Sure, you can see the forest, but what trees make up the forest? I'd rather have the whole picture. And while I honor your opinions, I feel you do yourself a great disrespect by not answering the details.

The answers lie in the details. Truth lies in the details.
 
I did not mean to sound like I know! I sincerely do not. But equally I am not worried about the details of Heaven or hell. I serve the Father. Would I like to YES, but until the information is given to me, I can wait!
 
I think we've lost the point somewhere. You have answered correctly though, you simply don't know. No one knows. I asked because there is a common, misconstrued notion of what Heaven and Hell is and they come nowhere close to being what is shown in the Bible.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]You had a preconceived notion of heaven and hell before this thread. Have those notions changed? Anyone care to answer that question?
Click to expand...

For myself, no. Not because I am not open to new ideas about hell, or for any subject for that matter.

There are two bona fide ways to get me to change my point of view on such a topic:

1. Introduce a new interpretation of scripture that is superior to my understanding but still within my understanding of Gods nature.

2. Convince me that my understanding of Gods nature is wrong.


The hellbuster site simply does neither. I am not being closed-minded by any stretch of the imagination because I insist on testing every thing. I don’t believe we should be so open minded that our brains fall out. We all test to a priori bias, which is a very personal thing.

The reality is, nobody can change our basis of understandings. When I became a Christian, there was a fundamental change in my basic understanding, my world view so to speak, but I can not point to somebody and say it was because of what Joe Blow said. Although, it may have been Joe Blow who said something that caused me to look into something that eventually lead to my change. I certainly would not have accepted Jesus as my Lord and saviour if I was close minded to the idea that there is a God or that there is only one way to him.

I am not “closed” minded to there not being a God. But good luck. You’ll have to convince me that everything I’ve experienced is a lie, or didn’t happen. Because that is the only way you will convince me that my understanding of Gods nature is wrong.

Number one is a point that is much easier to bring me about change. I can accept that my understanding of scripture is not always the best. And if somebody points it out, I am willing to study it further. It has happened here in the last month or so in the capital punishment thread.

The hellbuster site fails to convince me on point one because they haven’t convinced me that their interpretation is better then mine and their interpretation goes against test 2, in that it goes against what I believe is Gods nature. I did not dismiss it because I don’t like it. I dismissed it because I would have to believe that God intended for sin to continue to exist after the judgement at the white throne. Which is not my understanding of Gods nature in scripture.
 
Further...I have no clue as to what it would be like to spend eternity in hell or in heavan. Just like I can't wrap my mind around the concept of infinite.

I am limited to what I experience right here and right now. I have no idea what it is like to not experience pain or sorrow because I have always experienced them. Nor do I have an idea of what it is like not to experience joy or love, because I have also always experienced those as well.


further edit::::

Maybe people don't want to imagine having to experience existance without love or joy for an eternity so they begin to subscribe to a less then eternal hell?
 
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