Heaven!

Dark Virtue said:
I meant the "true" definition of heaven. What are the scriptural references you use to determine you definition?
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There are multitudes so i'll just post a section here.

Rev. 18:1 After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his splendor. 2With a mighty voice he shouted: "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great! She has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evil spirit, a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird. 3For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries. The kings of the earth committed adultery with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries." 4Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues; 5for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes.

Rev. 19:1 After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting: "Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, 2for true and just are his judgments. He has condemned the great prostitute who corrupted the earth by her adulteries. He has avenged on her the blood of his servants."

Rev. 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."
5He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
6He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars --their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
 
Hmmmm said:
There are multitudes so i'll just post a section here.

Rev. 18:1 After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his splendor. 2With a mighty voice he shouted: "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great! She has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evil spirit, a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird. 3For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries. The kings of the earth committed adultery with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries." 4Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues; 5for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes.

Rev. 19:1 After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting: "Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, 2for true and just are his judgments. He has condemned the great prostitute who corrupted the earth by her adulteries. He has avenged on her the blood of his servants."

Rev. 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."
5He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
6He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars --their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
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Thank you!

Now, where in all this is the popular view of hanging out on a fluffly cloud strumming a harp?

Doesn't Rev 21 describe the New Kingdom being set up HERE, on Earth?
 
Dark Virtue said:
Thank you!

Now, where in all this is the popular view of hanging out on a fluffly cloud strumming a harp?

Doesn't Rev 21 describe the New Kingdom being set up HERE, on Earth?
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Who said anything about heaven being a fluffy cloud, you only get that from media.

Very disappointing. I expected you to know the bible. The term "New Earth" should be enough to explain it. The Earth we are on right now is the "Old Earth". And i must apologize for leaving out one important part of heaven, the description

11 Having the glory of God: and her light [was] like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, [and] had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are [the names] of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred [and] forty [and] four cubits, [according to] the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
18 And the building of the wall of it was [of] jasper: and the city [was] pure gold, like unto clear glass.
19 And the foundations of the wall of the city [were] garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation [was] jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
21 And the twelve gates [were] twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city [was] pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
 
Now, where in all this is the popular view of hanging out on a fluffly cloud strumming a harp?

Doesn't Rev 21 describe the New Kingdom being set up HERE, on Earth?
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I'm not sure about that. I guess people just assumed heaven was in the sky/clouds so they worked along those lines.

And I think Revelations describes a New Heaven and a New Earth
 
Hmmmm said:
Who said anything about heaven being a fluffy cloud, you only get that from media.
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ONLY from the media? I don't think so.

Very disappointing. I expected you to know the bible. The term "New Earth" should be enough to explain it. The Earth we are on right now is the "Old Earth".
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I think you're a little too quick to judge.

Why don't you spell it out simply for all of us? When Christ returns, where will he reign? In the "heavens" or here on Earth? Where is New Jerusalem set up?
 
Dark Virtue said:
Why don't you spell it out simply for all of us? When Christ returns, where will he reign? In the "heavens" or here on Earth? Where is New Jerusalem set up?
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To put it simply, The New Jerusalem will be set up on the New Earth that will be created. The Earth we are on right now, the Old Earth, will be destroyed.

As for Christ thats a bit harder. Premillennialism teaches that he will reign on Earth for a 1000 years. Amillenisalism says it will be on Heaven. This topic is shaky. What we do know however is that after 1000 years, the old Earth will be destroyed and there will be a new heaven and new Earth.
 
Now I have studied with many and I mean many diff religions, if u knocked on my door to tell me about your religion i will pull you out a chair then hehehe I will see if you really know Jesus!!!! But as u say Jehovah's witnesses believe in a paradise on earth and well Like WHO CARES its a focus thing and with a promise that we will be taken care of.In my mind its enuff..As a PRINCE or as a PRINCESS we inherit a kingdom, touche whether it is here or there like I care!A perfect world relies not on a planet or humans but on a God who loves us enough to send his perfect son to die for us so WE may have everlasting life. SO if where u are or will be is so important in the everlasting life business than r u really focused?
 
Jeshurun said:
We had a taste of what heaven was like in the beginning in the garden of Eden.
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I am not sure I fully agree with your statement. I think that Adam and Eve lived in the Garden and the Garden existed partially within Heaven, and since Adam walked with God in the cool of the evenings. I think Adam and Eve were techinically living in heaven before the fall..... Just my .02
 
I would have to say that we are living on a very small piece of heaven.
My reason for saying this is if Jesus prayed these words from Mat.6:10 "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven" then you must conclude that this is a part of heaven.

Also I will say this If God is omnipresent or in other words He is everywhere then where God is heaven is.
And that would mean we are in it as a part of it because He is omnipresent.
 
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I'd haft to dissagree with that. It says "Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven" Meaning of course let your will be done on earth is it is done in heaven. Does this make sense I ask you?
 
Then Darth are you saying that God did not answer His sons request?

I know in my heart that the kingdom of God is heaven and this kingdom is in the heart of every Christian who has come to know Jesus as Lord and savior.

Jesus said in the book of Luke 18:17 "Truly, I say to you, whoever does not recieve the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it."

Therefore I say that a part of God's kingdom of heaven is on earth through Jesus Christ in us.:)
 
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