I'd like an extra large chunk of MEAT, well done please.

I didn't read your link but maybe start with a few 1000 years of Jewish people sacrificing animals to God starting with the whole Cain and Abel thing? The Bible also puts man apart from animals in our creation saying we were made in the image of God. Plus the circumstances of sin entering the world does not include animals having to eat the apple nor do I know of any verse that refers to animals having a soul akin to a human. Also the dietary laws in the old testament directly allow the eating of specific meat as long as it's kosher (and in the New Testament there is cause to believe some restrictions were lifted).

I do believe man should respect God's creation though so animal abuse is wrong. Plus delighting in the suffering of anything does not seem like a Christian attitude of love.
 
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Yes, I agree we should respect nature, because 1-God created nature 2-go watch Planet Earth or Life by David Attenborough and you will understand. However in nature animals eat other animals so why cant we eat other animals? The lion wouldn't hessitate to eat me.
 
silverleaf said:
However in nature animals eat other animals so why cant we eat other animals? The lion wouldn't hessitate to eat me.
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I think those that are against eating meat see animals showing what appears to be emotions and say they must have a soul as well. However the nature of the human soul goes beyond simple emotions into us having the ability to have a relationship with God, having been made in his image and having the knowledge of good and evil (and who knows what else given that souls cannot be measured). Biblically speaking I don't think there is any credence to the consumption of meat (non-specific meat) being a sin. Though conversely if one was practicing vegetarian the Bible doesn't force you to eat meat.

Scientifically speaking we are omnivores so we were made to digest both animal and plant matter.
 
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Well every animal, even plants, are adaptive, can 'think'. Scary but yes, some plants have developed the capacity to adapt very quickly. Think pitcher plant, venus flytrap, many climbers.

Thing is, animals were made to eat each other. Whatever your beliefs on creation, fact is, animals eat each other. The lion will eat me. Why can't I eat them?

Thanks, just wanted an outside opinion.
 
Actually, the answer to the OP question "what is the defense against someone saying eating meat is a sin" is very simple. In the Bible, right after the flood, God gives meat to Noah:

Genesis 9 said:
Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. 2 The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands. 3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.

4 "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. 5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man.

6 "Whoever sheds the blood of man,
by man shall his blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made man.

7 As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it."
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There are those that would argue that because this happens after the fall and not before, it's wrong and we should go back to the pre-fall perfection of the Garden of Eden. But you cannot say that it is a sin to eat the meat -- if you do, then you are calling God a sinner, or at least a sin-creator. And if you do that, well, I'm just not going there.

Oh, yeah, and a second comment on the subject of "going back to the garden." The garden was perfect, but it wasn't heaven. Adam and Eve sinned in the garden. Going back to the garden will not somehow make it all better, as it didn't stop the problem in the first place.
 
The entire chapter of Romans 14 is applicable, but here is a small portion:

Romans 14:1-3
Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.

So basically, don't worry about it either way. If someone doesn't want to eat meat, that is perfectly fine. However, they should not be judging those who do eat meat. The reverse is also true.

In other words, it's not something you should even worry about arguing over.
 
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Neirai the Forgiven said:
Actually, the answer to the OP question "what is the defense against someone saying eating meat is a sin" is very simple. In the Bible, right after the flood, God gives meat to Noah:
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Well stated. Goes for the whole post. I'm all for giving a defense of meat eating (being a hardcore carnivore myself).

However, I also expect respect and grace to be shown to those who feel convicted not to eat meat.

I've heard the arguments for and against vegetarianism/veganism. If personal conviction leads someone to live in such a way, there's no need to bash them over the head for it with arguments in favor of meat eating (unless they're actively trying to bash you over the head for meat eating, which is what the original post makes it sound like... then having strong defenses are good).

Let's be real here: In our hyper-industrialized state of business, the mass-produced meat market probably has a lot of practices that at least edge on animal cruelty (though it's not easy to sort the facts from the overstated propaganda to determine exactly how much of this is common practice). Still, there's plenty of room for conviction not to eat mass-produced meat (or meat in general, but most vegetarians I know oppose the processes used in the mainstream markets... not the eating of meat in itself).

But the activists who shove anything down my throat rub me the wrong way, too (I live in the wrong part of the country in light of this... there are activists on practically every corner here in the Portland area).So yeah. More power to the defense of meat eating; just be sensitive to legitimate convictions like that passage in Romans says to be.


Edit: Blargh. Massively distracted while writing this... Patriot said what I wanted to say... but better... and more concisely.
 
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my opinion is:
Eating meat is a sin (for some people)
Eating meat is not a sin (for some people)

Both are true. Since we are no longer under the law but grace this is a personal matter with the Holy Spirit (God) and not something anyone can judge for another person.
 
I wouldn't mind being a vegetarian except for the salad and carrots being boring part. Also soy and black bean burgers are nasty. T_T
 
Actually, the problem now is them vegans are claiming Noah was only allowed to eat meat (we have scientific proof that the flood did happen) because basically, he was told to bring 2 of each animal, not one of each plant (don't see how it will fit). Therefore, all the plants got instapwnt due to the flood, and there was nothing to eat and so he was given permission to eat the animals. However as there are only 2 of each animal, my guess is they must have reproduced on board the ship, else Noah would be causing MASS EXTINCTION here :P

Also, while I would love to eat only free range meat (its tastier and more humane), it is prohibitively expensive as it is a niche market.
 
From a quick reading of this pdf, it seems they have issues with the treatment of animals for the food system. The issue seems to be more with the food system or process than with the actual eating of meat.

If you decide to enter into a discussion with this website person, you should not go with I eat meat because I can and it is delicious.

I would say the underlying issue is cruelty to animals on the farm.

Would Jesus be cruel to animals? I dunno go ask the pigs that ran into the sea.
 
silverleaf said:
Actually, the problem now is them vegans are claiming Noah was only allowed to eat meat (we have scientific proof that the flood did happen) because basically, he was told to bring 2 of each animal, not one of each plant (don't see how it will fit). Therefore, all the plants got instapwnt due to the flood, and there was nothing to eat and so he was given permission to eat the animals. However as there are only 2 of each animal, my guess is they must have reproduced on board the ship, else Noah would be causing MASS EXTINCTION here :P
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As I said, this is not worth arguing about. Christians should not be arguing about pointless issues such as this one.

However, you reference a common misconception about the Ark that I feel I must address. Noah brought 2 of every kind of unclean animal, but he brought 7 of every kind of clean animal.

Genesis 7:1-3
The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth.

You will notice in the account that Noah gave sacrifice immediately after exiting the ark (Genesis 8:20). The only way this was possible without destroying the clean animal species was to carry more of them with him.
 
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Venison was mentioned earlier. Keep in mind that deer in many places are so many that they become pests for farmers. Also large herds overgraze available resources and often spread disease among themselves and some livestock. Hunting in those areas is doing a valuable culling out of animals in an overpopulated area. I also lived in an area where hunting for meat would make the budget stretch and make it possible to keep food on the table. Personally I can take or leave most wild game, but will eat it if available and necessary. I even ate groundhog once as a matter of honoring a very, very ill man.
 
i'm rather fond of bison in many form.s

and wild boar.

snake, even, makes a good sausage. i'll eat pretty much any critter once.
 
I had octopus for the first time a week ago. That falls into the "anything once" category. Actually it was pretty good and the texture was fine.
 
I am no hippie, and think that most of the vegan/etc types I have come across have been huge hypocrites.

That said, there are a lot of reasons everyone on this forum should be looking into some of these ideas (and by ideas, I don't mean abstaining from tasty meat):
1. Mass produced meat is disgusting, and animals tend to live in horrible, often painful, conditions. This isn't cool.
2. The stuff we buy in the super market is gross, not just the meat. Vegetables are covered in pesticides. Meat is stuffed full of water, ammonia, and chemicals.
3. Sugar isn't even sugar anymore. High-Fructose Corn Syrup is bad, BAD, bad

If you have Netflix, check out "food, inc". If not, rent it, or something like it. Basically, everybody hear needs to know what your family is being fed. If you don't want to know, just know that it is crap, and not even real food anymore.

A few things you can do:
1. Buy organic. "Natural" doesn't mean anything. Try to get no pesticide, etc.
2. Free roam chickens make healthier eggs, and tend to be more humane.
3. Farmers markets. Go to the local one. Seriously.
4. Find a good place to get real, grass-fed meat.

Be prepared to pay more for food, but at least it will be real food.
 
Paying more for food is not always an option if you are living on a fixed income. Also health food is not commonly available in the less populated areas. And in smaller market areas Farmers Markets are not always there, roadside stands are an option to that, but depend entirely on seasonal supply in most areas.
 
ursen said:
Paying more for food is not always an option if you are living on a fixed income.
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Or trying to keep your expenses low. It seems that junk is cheap while "natural" foods are significantly more expensive, which, considering all the additives and extra processes involved in junk food, it seems like it should be the other way around.

I have no moral issue with eating meat, but I do take issue with animal abuse. And if it came down to a choice between eating poor-quality meat and lentils, well, Ember makes some rather tasty lentil tacos. Seriously, they're delicious. And lentils are super-cheap.

As for me, I'm hypoglycemic, which means my body doesn't process sugar very well. High fructose corn syrup is essentially poison and I'm highly motivated to avoid it (because I feel like death warmed over if I have too much sugar). That's why I stopped drinking soda and alcohol completely (though I never drank them much to begin with and never to excess; alcohol is highly overrated in my opinion) and why I drink tea and water now. (Those who play in any of Tribe of Judah's game night events have probably seen me type "tea's up, brb" at some point in the last few years.)

Back to the point: I sincerely hope as awareness spreads regarding animal abuse in the foods industry that more people (or at least those who whom it is financially feasible) will speak with their wallets.

After changing my diet to account for my hypoglycemia, I jokingly said, "I eat like a hippie, but I promise I'm still politically conservative." Then I noticed more and more people speaking up about the evils of high fructose corn syrup, cutting back on soda, and demanding better quality ingredients in their food. To which I wanted to respond, "Where have you guys been? You're late to the party." :p
 
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