Patriotism

Atown said:
Well i'll be the first to say it: I LOVE AMERICA and i know we aint perfect but i wouldt live anywhere else and i'll also admit i get really frustrated with people that live in america and say it sucks. my thought is: if you dont like it- leave.

Now this evening i went to a flogging molly concert and several times "freedom" was mentioned. The group leader sang about his dad who 5 years ago died and never felt what he was able to; freedom (whats left of the flag). he also talked about how moving to america was the greatest thing ever and that the immense freedom he felt even when his life wasnt in order and then sang black friday rule. If someone from ireland loves america and what it stands for even though we are going through a rough time economically, then why cant americans be patriotic too?
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I think it is interesting how some people will "bash" their own country and do nothing that to help what ails it and then say they have nothing to be patriotic about.
 
Gods_Peon said:
I think it is interesting how some people will "bash" their own country and do nothing that to help what ails it and then say they have nothing to be patriotic about.
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eahrghuarehugearoguesohg I KNOW!!!!! dude we're like totally on the same page
 
voting is only a part of it. and writing in Ron Paul, while only a part of it, also can help bring about change. The US is a constitutional republic, with a free market system. I think our socialistically inclined candidates forget that. Those who choose to sponsor mandatory health care for all are not Patriotic, at least as far as being patriotic towards the US.

I think Ben Franklin summed it up nicely with the following quotes:

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

"In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution, with all its faults, — if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of government but what may be a blessing to the people, if well administered; and I believe, farther, that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic government, being incapable of any other. "
 
Gods_Peon said:
Is the US constitution so perfect that it would solve all the problems in the USA?
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If the people who are the actual rulers of the United States would do their jobs and vote after doing their own research and not buy into the two party lie..yes about 90% of our issues would vanish.

Gods_Peon said:
I think a patriot isn't just somebody who cheers for their country...they are also brave enough to stand up when something they see as wrong and say "This is wrong" and are willing to make a change. But...they need to do something to make a change and more often then not, the last step of that change should be your vote. Being lazy on the couch and writing in Ron Paul is seriously not enough to enact change.
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Your statement is patently wrong GP *section removed by me after reading further in the thread*. I for one and doing more than sitting on my behind. right now I am going on my blog left and right..calling into radio shows, writing my legislative reps, writing my president..aka and since neither of the current candidates are anything but socialistic lirs with a covering of conservatism or a radical muslim operative I am going to do what most people in this country have forgotten to do..vote for a person who is closer to my values AND the constitution..Ron Paul. You see GP writing in isn't about winning(although a write-in CAN win) if enough folks actually looked at this country, read and studied our constitution, and on their own critically thought about things they would see the sad state of our country. Get involved and vote..but don't just vote the lesser of two evils(then you're only serving evil) vote your Constitution, vote our values..but vote.

vibrokatana said:
You get to be taxed to death so you can use the wonderful free health care.
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your statement is no less offensive than the one i just called GP down on. VB please refrain from this inflammatory language or i'll start reporting folks on ALL sides and making sure appropriate actions are taken.

vibrokatana said:
You get to be taxed to death so you can use the wonderful free health care.
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furthermore both socialist candidates are going to bring socialized healthcare here..get ready for massive tax increases.

Goblit said:
If you don't vote, then you have no right to complain about the government .....imo.
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In the US while that sentiment is one i agree with our Constitution guarantees every CITIZEN the right of freedom of speech and expression. So if somebody doesn't vote..they are free to spout all they want to..i'm just free to tune them out in a heartbeat..:)

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Hescominsoon said:
Your statement is patently wrong GP *section removed by me after reading further in the thread*. I for one and doing more than sitting on my behind. right now I am going on my blog left and right..calling into radio shows, writing my legislative reps, writing my president..aka and since neither of the current candidates are anything but socialistic lirs with a covering of conservatism or a radical muslim operative I am going to do what most people in this country have forgotten to do..vote for a person who is closer to my values AND the constitution..Ron Paul. You see GP writing in isn't about winning(although a write-in CAN win) if enough folks actually looked at this country, read and studied our constitution, and on their own critically thought about things they would see the sad state of our country. Get involved and vote..but don't just vote the lesser of two evils(then you're only serving evil) vote your Constitution, vote our values..but vote.
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When has a write-in ever been elected?

Nice quintuple post, by the way. Goodness
 
Nice quintuple post there HCS. I think I agree with most of your statements, except I don't see how VK used inflammatory language. In fact, I think political satire is an excellent way to make a point!
 
Bonk!Ow! said:
When has a write-in ever been elected?

Nice quintuple post, by the way. Goodness
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IMO once people see the election results and see that the democrats and republicans are no longer holding a massive majority of votes then they will start to look at the other candidates. Right now the mindset of the entire country has been stacked for repubs and dems for so long that most people don't even think another party exists except as random names strewn across the ballot.
 
Hescominsoon said:
your statement is no less offensive than the one i just called GP down on. VB please refrain from this inflammatory language or i'll start reporting folks on ALL sides and making sure appropriate actions are taken.
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I really don't see how that statement is "inflammatory". It is no small fact that issuing a socialized welfare increases costs to the government and hence to the citizens. It certainly wasn't a death threat if that was what you were thinking.
 
It is wierd the differences between my country and the US in relation to how things political are considered. We have had a strong free open access health care system and education system for years and years (teriary students get an interest free loan that they start to pay back once they earn over $35,000, and it is taken from their tax return on a sliding scale of income). It has the full support of both political parties here (i.e. both right and left) and as never in my life time being refered to as socialist or even left wing by anybody in this country. In addition we have maintained a multi-billion surplus budget for the last however long and have reasonable tax levels. I mention this for a point. One mans socialist welfare system (and destroyer of government budgets and tax increases) is another man's right as a citizen (and the duty of the government to ensure everyone has a chance). There are more than one way to look at things and we should not just dimiss others points of view so harsly and judgementally. Lets keep this thread positive and sensitive to others points of view. I know if I was a voter for either side on this thread i would have been offended by what somebody has said here. Calling a candidate a socialist or a muslim operative or calling someone who writes-in lazy is going to be offensive to who-ever wants to vote one of those ways. Lets keep it respecful and civil.
 
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ppar3566 said:
It is wierd the differences between my country and the US in relation to how things political are considered. We have had a strong free open access health care system and education system for years and years (teriary students get an interest free loan that they start to pay back once they earn over $35,000, and it is taken from their tax return on a sliding scale of income). It has the full support of both political parties here (i.e. both right and left) and as never in my life time being refered to as socialist or even left wing by anybody in this country. In addition we have maintained a multi-billion surplus budget for the last however long and have reasonable tax levels. I mention this for a point. One mans socialist welfare system (and destroyer of government budgets and tax increases) is another man's right as a citizen (and the duty of the government to ensure everyone has a chance). There are more than one way to look at things and we should not just dimiss others points of view so harsly and judgementally. Lets keep this thread positive and sensitive to others points of view. I know if I was a voter for either side on this thread i would have been offended by what somebody has said here. Lets keep it respecful and civil.
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This says it all. What ever you are brought up in, is what you see as being the best. Of course, God is the ultimate socialist while being the ultimate capitalist. I think in the end, we all live without understanding of how the other lives or the reasons why they are happy or not happy with it.

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tjguitarz said:
Nice quintuple post there HCS. I think I agree with most of your statements, except I don't see how VK used inflammatory language. In fact, I think political satire is an excellent way to make a point!
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I responded to each post individually..
 
I think that patriotism is in the eye of the beholder.

Whether it be fully supporting your views, writing about certain parties, or going out to a public event. Or fully utilizing your freedoms to burn an American flag to make a metaphor for how the government is running itself now (not that I have ever done that, though...).

Patriotism is different for everyone.
 
then my eye is definitely an American Ethnocentric view of patriotism
 
Genesis1315 said:
but how can there be true patriotism if there isn't a defined standard?
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You can't define something that is intangible in such a way that it is accepted by everyone.

I could say that patriotism is about standing on your head and throwing dollar bills into the air. You can't challenge me on that as it is a personal belief. You could argue against it, but that does not mean you are right.
 
vibrokatana said:
You can't define something that is intangible in such a way that it is accepted by everyone.

I could say that patriotism is about standing on your head and throwing dollar bills into the air. You can't challenge me on that as it is a personal belief. You could argue against it, but that does not mean you are right.
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If that is patriotism then paint me green and call me gumpy I want to be a partriot....except I can't stand on my head...and I only have dollar coins not bills.

In any case I think patriotism is one of those words that is often used as a weapon. In that the first person to define partiotism has the power to determine who is a patriot and who is not. I often feel ppl define partiotism so they can decide who is and who isn't patriotic in order to get others to do what they want.
 
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