Yuor thoughts on homosexuality.

(sigh)
No not gay rapists. I just mentioned them up there because I'm sure we have them.
Thankfully, I haven't had any experiences like that. If you're joking, poor taste, my friend. If not, you have my deep sympathy.
 
Dude im not joking, it happened. and i still dont hate gays. just because one perverted sicko decided to do something to me, doesnt mean that all gays are like that.
 
Ok, this is mainly to Messenjah and Ultima. Guys, I have read this post because someone urged me to, and honestly I can't believe what I have just read.

I am not one to judge, because I have things I need to deal with but by what you guys are saying, you have pretty much opened the door for what I am about to say:

Messenjah - It breaks my heart that you went through what you did, and yet you still don't hate homosexuals. I commend you for that. That is truly showing Christs' love, however, your mouth and talk are filthy. Your signature is in poor taste. Also, your threats of violence aren't very becoming either.

Ultima - You call yourself a 'hateful bigot'. You call yourself a Christian. Choose one of the other, bro, because you can't walk the middle of the road. Choose who you will serve and do it with your whole heart. Revelation 3:16 says: "So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth." Also, the Lord was filled with compassion when he saw the masses of people that were lost. So you should also be filled with compassion when seeing the lost, whether it be a drug addict, a rapist, or a homosexual. Jesus spent time with the "bad" people because they were the ones that needed Him the most. They weren't his best friend, he didn't hang out and chill with them. He simply spent time with them to share his love and the gift of eternal life with them. That's it. If you don't feel comfortable hanging with sinners, then don't. But just remember - the only difference between you and those sinners (whether it be a drug addict, a rapist, or a homosexual) is the fact that Christ forgave you and SAVED YOUR SOUL. We Christians are NO different from the people in this world, it's just that we are forgiven. That Metallica song you're listening to; I have never heard it but by what you typed I can only think of one thing. They are saying we are puppets and God is the Puppet Master, controlling us with "strings". Are they not? Do you agree with this song? Please tell me no, but I doubt that because you say it's one of your favorite songs...

I think both of you guys are giving Christians a bad rep, as well as who we are supposed to represent. Do you guys know what the meaning of "Christian" is? It simply means "Christ-like". I don't see any Christ-like examples by what you posted previously...

As far as homosexuality, it is a sin. It is not natural. God created us so that we may pro-create and multiply. Genesis 1:28 says: "God blessed them and said to them, 'Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it.'" Homosexuals cannot do this. God also created us in his image. Genesis 1:27 says: "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them." God is not gay, and will never be. John 3:16 says: "For God so loved the world [mankind, every single person] that he gave his only begotten Son." He showed his love for every type of person that is, was, and is to come. God gave us the perfect example. Shouldn't we be examples as well? They are all, in fact people. God created every single one of us, and he didn't have homosexuality (or any other sin) in mind. Somewhere along the lines, someone had a perverted thought and perverted God's creation of Man & Woman, and turned to the same sex. I blame this on the devil, as he perverts a lot of things. Take the rainbow for example. God made it to sybolize the love he had for people and that He would never destroy the earth again by floods. What does it symbolize now - HOMOSEXUALITY. If you guys are going to shun anyone, or be mad at someone - it should be the Devil himself.

The fact is, God told us to love everyone just as He loves us. We have to remember that we too were sinners and have only been blessed to have been saved by the grace of God. I would highly suggest you guys to read the Word of God and match it up with your beliefs. Pray to God and ask Him what he thinks about your beliefs. Listen to the Holy Spirit, and make sure your relationship with God is right and in good standing.

I will definitely be keeping all of you in prayer.
 
Ultima:
James 2 10-12
10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11For he who said, "Do not commit adultery,"[2] also said, "Do not murder."[3] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
12Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!
 
You really have my sympathy now Messenjah.
Thank you all for concern.
I need a leveler from time to time. I know I'm not acting Christian talking like this, but geez, sometimes I just freak and act out my gut instinct, revulsion for some sins, revulsion for others.
Sorry. I'm a bigot, some say, because I don't like gays. Then I'm a bigot. It's a choice I make. Perhaps it's not the best one, but you know, as I said earlier, I AM NOT GOD. I wish I acted as good as God, but sadly, I do not, for I sin, on my own accord, something that even adds to my torment over sin.
Mercy triumphs over judgement...what if I actually practice that. That would be pleasant.
Look, I don't bash gays, I don't think gays are less than human, but dang, it just gives me the shivers. Sorry, but it does. I despise their lifestyle, as I despise rapists, druggists, sex addicts, whatever. Murderers, thieves. Anything. I hate sin in all forms, but I sin so much, it's hard for me to actually believe I belittle sin.
Yes the infamous "Break one law, you've broken em all" verse. I needa remember that.
TheElite, in response to the whole Metallica thing "That Metallica song you're listening to; I have never heard it but by what you typed I can only think of one thing. They are saying we are puppets and God is the Puppet Master, controlling us with "strings". Are they not? Do you agree with this song? Please tell me no, but I doubt that because you say it's one of your favorite songs..."
They're not talking about God, for sure. I wouldn't listen to it if I thought it was like that. I don't believe God's like that, I don't think GOd's some sadist in heaven twiddling us along through life. No. That is not my belief, to reassure you. I like that song, but I do not believe that's its message.
Keep in mind, though, that once saved my friend, we are not of this world. The world will shun us, will hate us, will fight us, for we are not of them any longer. We live in it, but we do not belong to it. REmember that. Stuck in flesh, we still sin, but our souls belong to something greater.
Thank you for prayers, thank you for rebuke, thank you for debate, thank you for everything you guys are doing here for us all, and for straightening me up from time to time.
 
I think the "Master of Puppets" represents all those shadowy figures who pull the strings from behind the scenes and influence the lives of hundreds of people on a day to day basis. Chances are you never know who makes the decision that results in something like your redundancy, your tax audit or so forth.

That's what it means.

Eon
 
Hello Kidan,

Kidan: [Saint J--how exactly does the law refuse a homosexual the same liberties as a heterosexual?  The law is blind.]

For one, gays cannot marry (except in Vermont lol). In some areas it is illegal to for two consenting gay adults to cohabitate or even openly have a relationship. When I made the statement I was also thinking of gays being fired simply because a boss or coworker finds out they are gay and not because of their job performance - but that is another matter. My mind spliced the two issues together.

Kidan: [Homosexuality is the act.]  

Homosexuality is no more an act than heterosexuality. Take yourself for instance - even if you were celibate you would *still* be heterosexual. Homo/heterosexuality is a term that describes what gender a person is attracted to - it doesn't imply whether the person acts on that attraction.

Kidan: [It is a choice, a sin, ...]

I understand that according to mainstream Christianity, *acting* on homosexual attractions is a sin.

Kidan (cont): [there is no genetic or mental make-up that drives someone to prefer 1 sex over the other.]

We will have to agree to disagree - from what I have read there is indeed evidence that who one is attracted to can be influenced by genetics and physical components.  

Kidan: [If there was, then we would have those who practice bestiality saying they're genetically predisposed to have sex with the dog.]

The flaw in that argument is that people who practice bestiality are not "attracted" sexually to animals - they are using the animal for physical gratification the same way a person would use an inanimate object. People use inanimate objects that way too - there's a large industry for it in fact, as Im sure you know - but the people who indulge in that manner are not sexually attracted to the objects.

Kidan: [as for switching orientations, there are a number of Christian programs that assist in doing that with lasting results.]

About 2 years ago, there was a big scandal when the leader of one the organizations you're referring to was caught in a gay bar. Apparently he'd been a regular there and was photographed on several different occasions and lied to the reported about what he was doing there.

I was also reading that some of those who have come out of those organizations end up having breakdowns and others end up being back in homosexual relationships.

Imagine, Kidan, if America underwent a huge cultural change, and in, say 200 years, homosexuality is the "common" orientation and hetersexuals are few and far between, and treated as "unnatural". Now let's imagine being born into a culture that condemns being attracted to the opposite gender, and wracked with guilt, you go to an organization that promises to "fix" you. Sure, you would probably find a way to repress your feelings if there was enough pressure and if your self esteem depended on it.

Honestly, those organizations wouldn't bother me so much if they were simply offering *help* to those who were unhappy with themselves - either by accepting themselves for who they are, or helping them to change *if* they want to - but imo the whole idea that gays have something wrong with them - the "you're broken but we can fix you" mentality is emotionally harmful. I think gay suicide statistics bear me out. Feeling forced to live a life of secrecy and feeling like a defect would make anyone suicidal.

Take care,

SJ
 
Hi Shark : )

Shark: [Homosexuals being so by genetic disorder? Thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard. True love isnt caused by a persons body.]

When you see a person of the opposite gender that makes your heart race, it ain't true love you're feeling, lol. It's sexual attraction,  and "true love" and "sexual attraction" are two different things, lol. And btw physcial attraction is VERY MUCH caused by a person's body.

Saint J
 
Hi there Ultima!

Ultima: [And uh please note I didn't COMPARE gays to rapists. I picked two categories frowned on. Gays were hated, right? Bad stuff, right? Despised, right? WEll then they became legal. Rapists are hated, right? Bad stuff, right? Despised, right? Well soon they'll be legal, as just about everything is becoming. Read the posts and think it through first dude.]

I understand that you weren;t trying to compare gays to rapists, but I still think the comparison you did make wasn't an effective one.

How about we look at it in terms of why both of these things are despised - and btw homosexuality is still despised in many circles, so let's explore the question of *why* it is despised.

We despise rapists for obvious reasons - they use force to physically abuse and dominate others, and the particular means of domination (sexual) is particularly humiliating. Often they kill their victim.

Now: why, exactly, do people despise homosexuals? They aren't using force or domination to abuse others, as rapists do. Perhaps the reason homosexuals are more accepted now than they were 20 years ago is because people have begun to realize that there is no logical reason to despise them!

Btw Ultima, I realize that the whole idea of people being attracted to others of the same sex repulses you, but that in and of itself doesn't make you a bigot. : )

Take care,
Saint J
 
Hello Elite!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

TheElite: [As far as homosexuality, it is a sin. It is not natural. God created us so that we may pro-create and multiply. Genesis 1:28 says: "God blessed them and said to them, 'Be fruitful  and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it.'" Homosexuals cannot do this.]

Neither can men and women who are sterile. Does this mean that they should not get into a relationship with anyone ever? Becuase the logic in your statement above implies that any relationship that does not result in children is unnatural and/or sinful.

Take care,

Saint J
 
Again, even if homosexuality is genetic it doesn't mean it is right. Let's say, theoretically, I have a genetic predisposition to slaughter dogs, that doesn't make it right.
 
Hi Izip,

Nice to hear from you. I wasn't sure I should even start posting on this thread, but now that I have, I'm pleasantly surprised to see that everyone has been so respectful in sharing their views. I have found that when people (myself included) are discussing things they are passionate about, it's often difficult to express views in a way that is not an attack on the person who is sharng and/or supporting another view.

Izip: [Again, even if homosexuality is genetic it doesn't mean it is right.]

Honestly, I don't even think it's a matter of right and wrong per se. A genetic predisposition is just that, a genetic predispotion - it's neutral. It's how a person behaves as a result of that predisposition that can be judged as right or wrong.

Izip: [Let's say, theoretically, I have a genetic predisposition to slaughter dogs, that doesn't make it right.]

Yep, and it doesn't make it wrong either. It just makes it a genetic predispostion. But it would mean that you would be much more likely to commit that action, or you would have a strong desire to do so (and I would agree that to act on that inclination would be wrong).

As for your analogy, I'm not sure it is relevant, because your analogy involves deliberately harming a living creature, which most people would agree is an obvious immoral act. Gays on the other hand aren't harming anyone by being attracted to people of the same gender.

I realize that for most here the basis for deeming homosexuality wrong is that it is condemned in the Bible. I'd like to go a step further (or a step back, if you will): is there any practical, non biblical reason that homosexuality would be considered wrong?

I look forward to hearing everyone's comments!

Take care everyone,

Saint J
 
Whether it's genetic or not is moot. Why? Cuz it isn't, they already tested that. This has been out a looooooooong time... The whole, "I'm born this way" was simply propaganda spread by the gay community, it was never based on truth or fact.

So it comes down to whether it's right or wrong. Considering this a Christian forum, then I have no problem saying yes it is wrong since the bible says so. But to those of you who are biblical-challenged, use common sense. I don't want to spell it out for ya, but does it even REMOTELY look like a human should be like that, physically? If you still think so, you should be slapped. Seriously.
 
Hi Eon,

First of all I should say that I have really enjoyed reading your posts, mainly because I am always in agreement with what you say <g>

Eon: [I think the "Master of Puppets" represents all those shadowy figures who pull the strings from behind the scenes and influence the lives of hundreds of people on a day to day basis. Chances are you never know who makes the decision that results in something like your redundancy, your tax audit or so forth.]

There's a line in the song that says "chop your breakfast on a mirror", if I remember it right (Ultima, did I get that right?), that leads to me to believe it's about a cocaine addict, who becomes like a "puppet" being controlled by the substance. But your interpretation is certainly valid in a broader sense.

Take care,
Saint J
 
Hello Justice, my open minded friend ; )

Justice: [Whether it's genetic or not is moot. Why? Cuz it isn't, they already tested that. This has been out a looooooooong time... The whole, "I'm born this way" was simply propaganda spread by the gay community, it was never based on truth or fact.]

Justice, I beg to differ! Where are you doing your research? At the Jerry Falwell Anti-Gay Institute? There is a actually quite a bit of evidence that that are genetic components to homo/heterosexuality.

Justice: [So it comes down to whether it's right or wrong. Considering this a Christian forum, then I have no problem saying yes it is wrong since the bible says so.]

Even if it *wasn't* a Christian forum, that is your right : )

Justice: [But to those of you who are biblical-challenged, use common sense. I don't want to spell it out for ya, but does it even REMOTELY look like a human should be like that, physically?]

All you have done here is assert that homosexuals "shouldn't" be homosexual, you've done nothing as far as backing up that point or telling us *why* you feel that way.  I'll assume, since you haven;t offered one, that you have no practical or logical reason for considering homosexuality wrong.

Justice: [If you still think so, you should be slapped. Seriously]

Well how can anyone possibly argue with that kind of reasonable, objective logic. LOL

Take care,

Saint J
 
Saint Judas,

Here is what I said, please read it fully:

"As far as homosexuality, it is a sin. It is not natural. God created us so that we may pro-create and multiply. Genesis 1:28 says: "God blessed them and said to them, 'Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it.'" Homosexuals cannot do this. "

Yes, sterile men and women cannot reproduce but that is a physical challenge they face, and in the overall global scope it can be considered normal to find a couple who are sterile. Homosexuals cannot reproduce because it is physically impossible. There is no way to conceive a child between the same sex. With a heterosexual couple, they can at least seek medical help that will allow them to naturally reproduce (not adopt, because that is the only way homosexuals can "have offspring").

So, I don't think the logic in my statement says anything about heterosexual couples.

God bless,

Elite
 
What do you think about homosexuals adopting kids. kids that are like cocain adicts because their parents used it when they are pregnant. stuff like that. kids that no one else wants. you can say that it isnt natural, but they are recieving more love and care than what they would if they were just left in a home. the children will turn out to be more sane and feel accepted than if they were in a home or something.
 
Saint Judas, you are trying to hard. Think sensibly. Maybe you've never had sex before, but there are 2 ingredients to it. In the tech world we call them male and female connectors. There is a reason we are designed this way. Obviously you weren't there during sex ed.
 
The topic wasnt about whether itz natural or not, that doesnt matter. there could be a genetic dissorder that causes it. anyone remember the scripture "and the sins of your forefathers will be passed down onto your children and your children's children" now couldnt that be a cause of it???
 
The sin being passed down thing isn't about genetics. Its generally true that if for whatever reason one person is bad (abuses someone, drug addict) their child for whatever reason is statistically more likely to be a trouble maker (NOTE: more likeley, but not always).

And it isn't genetic... because if it was there wouldn't be any unless they have a kid with a friend, but there arn't many of those. And there are far too many of them to be a mutation (the technical term...) without inheritance.

There is nothing wrong with homosexuality except that God despises it. I do not like to "hang out" with them unless I'm ministering to them. If they start following Christ, I (hopefully everyone else would too) help them overcome the temptation and help fill them up with the truth and God's love and scripture. (When you become a Christian you arn't what you once were, so technically I will never hang out with homosexuals, I'm hanging out with new Christians.)
 
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